W211 AMG Discuss the W211 AMG's such as the E55 and the E63

Reliability Build: Suggestions and Progress

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Old Mar 20, 2014 | 10:57 AM
  #1  
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Reliability Build: Suggestions and Progress

Alright, so I figure since I need this thing to be reliable enough to get my kids around for the foreseeable future I should do some mods that aren't necessarily performance based.

For example, my SC keeps cutting out. So I ordered an I/C pump. Well I looked at the coolant and it's green... Red flag right there. Then I noticed floaties... So obviously someone just went with whatever and it's coroding things. So a flush is in order along with that new bosch 010 pump. I figured if I'm going to do coolant mods, what else should I do while the coolants out? Well the isolation kit would be legit for holding temps down, so I ordered one off Needswings. This weekend at some point that'll all get straightened out.

Next will be oil, then SC oil. Now my harmonic balancer isn't in the best shape, so I should go aftermarket with a belt wrap kit. What would be a good size? Like I said, I'm not trying to go crazy, but if the pulley's bad, then I might as well get some ponies with the work of putting a new one on.

I'll keep this thread updated on mods and things I do to help keep her performing well, all of the time. I'm also open to suggestions. I remember someone bringing up replacement airmatic shocks for $450/corner or something like that? I might end up buying it and throwing them in the garage, just in case.
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Old Mar 20, 2014 | 12:03 PM
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I say go for coilovers if you want reliable.
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Old Mar 20, 2014 | 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Forrest Gump 9
I say go for coilovers if you want reliable.
I don't really want to sacrafice functionality though. If the airmatic goes, I'll replace it. I like the airmatic too much. Besides, where I live I use the rise feature often or I clip the exhaust.
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Old Mar 20, 2014 | 12:59 PM
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A reliable build for this car is one that is not short on power, but not setting records either... I think it involves mostly the parts below:

Full pulley swap(from Shardul)
S/C pulley, Belt wrap kit, and the multi piece pulley kit(OEM ones fail regularly)

Coolant:
Upgraded pump either the Johnson CM30 or the upgraded bosch, Heat exchanger(lots of people make them), BMW or Mustang split cooling mod

Various: Headers(performance as well as cooling), 1 step colder spark plugs

should be good for 500hp, and well rounded.

When the airmatic fails, you replace with coilovers as well.
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Old Mar 20, 2014 | 01:01 PM
  #5  
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also more on 6 speed swaps? Doable in an E55?
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Old Mar 20, 2014 | 01:18 PM
  #6  
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Originally Posted by 55fanatic
A reliable build for this car is one that is not short on power, but not setting records either... I think it involves mostly the parts below:

Full pulley swap(from Shardul)
S/C pulley, Belt wrap kit, and the multi piece pulley kit(OEM ones fail regularly)

Coolant:
Upgraded pump either the Johnson CM30 or the upgraded bosch, Heat exchanger(lots of people make them), BMW or Mustang split cooling mod

Various: Headers(performance as well as cooling), 1 step colder spark plugs

should be good for 500hp, and well rounded.

When the airmatic fails, you replace with coilovers as well.
Agreed. Shardul contacted me already and I'll be saving for the BWK and the 172mm pulley kit.

The upgraded bosch pump and separator kit is going in this weekend.

If headers keep heat down then I'll go with them. If it's just another strain on the motor then I wont. Colder plugs, got it.

The airmatic is where I'm lost. What's the benefit of switching to the coilovers? Price? Because I love the way it ride's, I like the sport options, and I need the height rise.

Originally Posted by 55fanatic
also more on 6 speed swaps? Doable in an E55?
We will find out soon. I've been working on the ECU work like what I did with my R170 500 6-speed swap and I have a solution for the 55K's. Just need time to try it out, and then a test subject lol.

Now, the 6-speed input rating is 370nm, 272 ft-lbs. Stock E55's flywheel is 516 right? Well, I have noooo clue in the slightest how it's going to hold up. So far 339 at it with the stock 70,000 mile clutch and it's trucking along great.
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Old Mar 20, 2014 | 01:24 PM
  #7  
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The airmatic is a love hate relationship... It offers a nice ride, but when it starts to go, will bleed you dry of money. There are even folks who have swapped out airmatic, to move to traditional coilovers to swap in aftermarket air suspension that is much better
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Old Mar 20, 2014 | 01:25 PM
  #8  
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and on the trans, should be able to take way more than 516... as many of us are modded and way higher
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Old Mar 20, 2014 | 01:29 PM
  #9  
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Originally Posted by 55fanatic
The airmatic is a love hate relationship... It offers a nice ride, but when it starts to go, will bleed you dry of money. There are even folks who have swapped out airmatic, to move to traditional coilovers to swap in aftermarket air suspension that is much better
Nice, and totally understandable. When it goes and the time come's I'll have to make the decision then.

Originally Posted by 55fanatic
and on the trans, should be able to take way more than 516... as many of us are modded and way higher
What I was saying is I don't know. I'm in that unknown territory on the trans right now with the SL500 motor at 339 crank ft-lbs... It's only rated for 272. So as it stands, it may be possible, but I might have to run with a getrag 5-speed instead of the slk's 6-speed.
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Old Mar 20, 2014 | 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by sk8erjosh09
Agreed. Shardul contacted me already and I'll be saving for the BWK and the 172mm pulley kit.

The upgraded bosch pump and separator kit is going in this weekend.

If headers keep heat down then I'll go with them. If it's just another strain on the motor then I wont. Colder plugs, got it.

The airmatic is where I'm lost. What's the benefit of switching to the coilovers? Price? Because I love the way it ride's, I like the sport options, and I need the height rise.

Here's my $.02 for what it's worth:

For reliability and appearance, add the ASP aluminum pulley set from Shardul. The stock factory plastic parts are junky and prone to failure

The lower 172mm crank pulley is a great idea if it's the ASP model (built off a factory MBZ harmonic balancer), it's beautifully machined and has 6 dowel pins to lock the larger outer ring to the balancer permanently.

Some guys like the smaller S/C pulley as a way to get more boost since it's super-easy to install. But in terms of HP/TQ gains it can't even match a super-conservative 168mm crank pulley... so while it's very easy, it also doesn't give you as much extra power as something in the 168/172/175mm range.

Headers help to reduce backpressure and heat, so they actually reduce stress and wear. If you don't go crazy chopping out resonators and all the cats, the sound is 100% stock for normal driving.... but more aggressive at WOT. The headers will really maximize the gains of the larger pulley too.

H/E - I did a lot of research on these recently. If you have an '05 or '06 with the extra oil cooler, your simplest option is the PLM exchanger. It has the correct brackets to remount the cooler. The EC version doesn't so you end up playing games with zipties or other dubious methods to get everything reinstalled. Be forewarned: Most aftermarket H/Es interfere with the lower airdam/undertray area, so you'll probably get the proverbial "fat lip" look afterwards.

Split Cooling seems like a good idea for guys running either a trunk tank or a large front engine tank. I'm not really convinced that it buys you much additional benefit if all you are doing is a larger H/E. I intend to install the PLM first....datalog for a while and then eventually do the split once I add an engine tank.

AirMatic gets a bad rap around here. I like it, personally. It can be expensive to repair, but once you ditch the MBZ bags for the Arnott ones the ride gets a bit firmer, and the long-term reliability is reported to be much better than the original setup.


So basically.... headers and a reasonable sized crank pulley plus tune and cooling is the "sweet spot" IMHO.... you add a little over 100WHP with almost no penalty in reliability. Most guys consider a car like this to be a "K2" car (using Kleemann nomenclature). You can go further K3, K4....etc. but the costs climb exponentially, and the day-to-day reliability will start to suffer. AMG built a good amount of "safety margin" into this motor so it can handle increased power, but everything has it's limits.


-G
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Old Mar 20, 2014 | 04:15 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by GregMB
Here's my $.02 for what it's worth:

For reliability and appearance, add the ASP aluminum pulley set from Shardul. The stock factory plastic parts are junky and prone to failure

The lower 172mm crank pulley is a great idea if it's the ASP model (built off a factory MBZ harmonic balancer), it's beautifully machined and has 6 dowel pins to lock the larger outer ring to the balancer permanently.

Some guys like the smaller S/C pulley as a way to get more boost since it's super-easy to install. But in terms of HP/TQ gains it can't even match a super-conservative 168mm crank pulley... so while it's very easy, it also doesn't give you as much extra power as something in the 168/172/175mm range.

Headers help to reduce backpressure and heat, so they actually reduce stress and wear. If you don't go crazy chopping out resonators and all the cats, the sound is 100% stock for normal driving.... but more aggressive at WOT. The headers will really maximize the gains of the larger pulley too.

H/E - I did a lot of research on these recently. If you have an '05 or '06 with the extra oil cooler, your simplest option is the PLM exchanger. It has the correct brackets to remount the cooler. The EC version doesn't so you end up playing games with zipties or other dubious methods to get everything reinstalled. Be forewarned: Most aftermarket H/Es interfere with the lower airdam/undertray area, so you'll probably get the proverbial "fat lip" look afterwards.

Split Cooling seems like a good idea for guys running either a trunk tank or a large front engine tank. I'm not really convinced that it buys you much additional benefit if all you are doing is a larger H/E. I intend to install the PLM first....datalog for a while and then eventually do the split once I add an engine tank.

AirMatic gets a bad rap around here. I like it, personally. It can be expensive to repair, but once you ditch the MBZ bags for the Arnott ones the ride gets a bit firmer, and the long-term reliability is reported to be much better than the original setup.


So basically.... headers and a reasonable sized crank pulley plus tune and cooling is the "sweet spot" IMHO.... you add a little over 100WHP with almost no penalty in reliability. Most guys consider a car like this to be a "K2" car (using Kleemann nomenclature). You can go further K3, K4....etc. but the costs climb exponentially, and the day-to-day reliability will start to suffer. AMG built a good amount of "safety margin" into this motor so it can handle increased power, but everything has it's limits.


-G
Awesome write up! Thanks!

If the headers, IC pump, and separator kit all bring temps down then those 100+whp mods are completely worth it. Again, I appreciate the advice and that's where I'll run.

On the other hand, with the insane amount of room for headers, my fabricator and I will probably just do up our own like we are going to on the xfire. The 55 headers will be a breeze, and it will save me a ton of money.

I also don't mind a vicious growl either. This thing is borderline too quiet, but it has a nice note so I haven't gone and cut anything out yet lol.
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Old Mar 20, 2014 | 09:26 PM
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If you want sounds, the stock mufflers have to go. Or you can open it up and remove some of the packings in them. I ran my car no cats, no resonators, just straight 3" and stocks mufflers and it's still very tame. I swapped the E63 mufflers in and now the beast just roars. Like my 5 years old said, it's like "a jaguar, a tiger, and a lion all roar at the same time".
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Old Mar 21, 2014 | 10:08 AM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by Forrest Gump 9
If you want sounds, the stock mufflers have to go. Or you can open it up and remove some of the packings in them. I ran my car no cats, no resonators, just straight 3" and stocks mufflers and it's still very tame. I swapped the E63 mufflers in and now the beast just roars. Like my 5 years old said, it's like "a jaguar, a tiger, and a lion all roar at the same time".
That's awesome lol! My oldest is 3 and he just loves both of my cars. Riding in them, brief pulls, all of it.

As far as the exhaust, thanks. I'll probably just redo the whole thing. Rather than 12 ft for just the Xfire, I'll buy 25 or so and do up the 55's.
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Old Mar 24, 2014 | 11:43 AM
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New IC pump along with my version of a separator kit using the Needswings valves. I am nervous about closing the valve yet, since I didn't bleed. I just let it idle to temp pouring more in with the heater on full blast. Then ran the crap out of it for a minute, checked it and it was still full. So I'll probably keep checking over the next couple days, but just the new pump made a COMPLETE difference. It's instant SC power and it stays. I bet I could pull another car length on that Alpina B7 when I was already 3-4 car lengths ahead.

I really thought that since it was a SC, it just wasn't that smooth, like an NA. Turns out, it was just my pump lol.
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Old Mar 24, 2014 | 02:24 PM
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A warning- People who avoid crank pulley and go with S/C pulley is due to the fact that it comes with a caveat -

Proper installation of Crank pulley is very-very important. You can do a search and see numerous pulley fail/bolt coming loose/pulley falling

off and things. Some used pulley eating belt after after- ruining crank head (I think that's what it is called) .

So spend an extra hour and little bit extra money to get the right pulley and get it done right since Reliability is what you want.
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Old Mar 24, 2014 | 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by viren.89
A warning- People who avoid crank pulley and go with S/C pulley is due to the fact that it comes with a caveat -

Proper installation of Crank pulley is very-very important. You can do a search and see numerous pulley fail/bolt coming loose/pulley falling

off and things. Some used pulley eating belt after after- ruining crank head (I think that's what it is called) .

So spend an extra hour and little bit extra money to get the right pulley and get it done right since Reliability is what you want.
Thanks for the advice! I agree 100%, measure twice, cut once.
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Old Apr 1, 2014 | 11:35 AM
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Just thought I would throw an update.

Before, when it was stock, with a faulty pump, and horrible looking coolant that was attacking the intercooler, I stomped on an Alpina B7 pretty bad and a newer stock WRX, REALLY bad.

Now I have the 010 bosch IC pump and split the cooling. I figured it would have been more of a race since they were all the rage when they first came out but man are those 5.0 GT's slow lol. He chirped the launch and I was 1/4-1/2 throttle just sliding, still next to him, caught traction and took off. He was PISSED! Come to find out they're low 13 second cars lmao, so it would've been a bunch closer if I had been in the Crossfire.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that this is one hell of a machine. No clue why people buy $15,000 + cars without looking at these. I'm actually starting to get pretty good at controlled drifts too, which was literally impossible with the Crossfire's (Standard Mercedes) traction software.

Now I just need to save up for a H/E and a 172mm along with a tune.
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Old Apr 1, 2014 | 01:08 PM
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Ah - You have the mod bug taking over (nice). GregMB summed it up very well. I'm a advocate for headers - If you do a search you'll see you have choices, between short/Long, and brands, and with normal driving you'll hardly notice you have them installed, but wot everyone will notice, and you'll have the benefits that go with them. Two recommendations add an x-pipe, and replace your motor mounts while your installing the headers.
Good Luck -
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Old Apr 1, 2014 | 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by kompressede
Ah - You have the mod bug taking over (nice). GregMB summed it up very well. I'm a advocate for headers - If you do a search you'll see you have choices, between short/Long, and brands, and with normal driving you'll hardly notice you have them installed, but wot everyone will notice, and you'll have the benefits that go with them. Two recommendations add an x-pipe, and replace your motor mounts while your installing the headers.
Good Luck -
Appreciate it, I'll make a nice set of long tube's and re-do the exhaust. It was in the plans at this point anyway. Better flow is better effeciency. Probably better gas mileage if I can keep my foot out of it. I've been between 8 and 14 since I bought it.
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Old Apr 1, 2014 | 01:45 PM
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I was going to mention the better gas mileage thing too, it really can get better if you keep your right foot from pushing the peddle to the floor? lol
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Old Apr 1, 2014 | 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by kompressede
I was going to mention the better gas mileage thing too, it really can get better if you keep your right foot from pushing the peddle to the floor? lol
Barely lol. Sometimes. I guess it's not too hard to believe given the stats but man, no wonder they put 20 something gallon tanks in here.
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Old Apr 21, 2014 | 12:25 PM
  #22  
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So an update... My goal for the Crossfire has been the 55K motor, for a while, with a manual trans. The new plan is to do that, but a little differently... 600 TT V12 motor is going in the E and the E's 55K is going in the Crossfire. It'll be a while before I start but that's the new goal.
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Old Apr 22, 2014 | 07:39 AM
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can someone explain this please - confused ? as long as the SC spins at the same rate from a larger crank or a smaller SC pulley it is the same ? yes I know you can only go so small,,,, thx


Some guys like the smaller S/C pulley as a way to get more boost since it's super-easy to install. But in terms of HP/TQ gains it can't even match a super-conservative 168mm crank pulley... so while it's very easy, it also doesn't give you as much extra power as something in the 168/172/175mm range.
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Old Apr 23, 2014 | 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by hayseed
can someone explain this please - confused ? as long as the SC spins at the same rate from a larger crank or a smaller SC pulley it is the same ? yes I know you can only go so small,,,, thx


Some guys like the smaller S/C pulley as a way to get more boost since it's super-easy to install. But in terms of HP/TQ gains it can't even match a super-conservative 168mm crank pulley... so while it's very easy, it also doesn't give you as much extra power as something in the 168/172/175mm range.

Think of it like gears on a mountain bike.

There are several combinations of front and rear sprockets that are all equally easy to pedal. The tooth counts (or in our case the pulley diameter) is irrelevant, what matters is the ratio between them. As you increase the ratio, you will increase the supercharger RPMs which increases the boost.

The upper pulley only comes in one size....84mm. Not really small enough to give impressive boost, but it's as small as it can physically get.


-G
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Old Apr 23, 2014 | 09:16 AM
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I guess I was interpreting it differently when I read it before -- clear now -- examples from another post -- I did not see corresponding hp/tq numbers -- thx


Yellow = Stock size pulley
Green = Smaller S/C pulley
Blue = Larger Aftermarket Crank Pulley

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