m3j0n

First "mod" bcuz southflorida... LOl

what are the pros/cons of these two pumps? looking to place an order tonight. Thanks.

JoeNobody

Johnson pump sucks. Don't waste your time or money.

A.M.

Keep sh*t simple. Go for the Bosch.

Vader55

Joe, your kidding right? If not, you have a lot to learn. The newer Bosch pump is for sure adequate as the old design Bosch pump was pretty bad. The Johnson CM30 is a really good durable intercooler pump for the M113 motor. Serge from Benzworks turned me on to the CM30 many years ago and it is still on my car today. Weistec which is local to me also sells the CM30 for the M113 upgrades they have as well. Trust the tuners who actually test and engineer their own product.

http://weistec.com/all/e/e-55/2003-2006-w211-m113k.html

Yacht Master

The search will net a vast amount of knowledge.

https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...g-results.html

m3j0n

LOL. incredibly unhelpful....

so which one is better under a load (head) than the other? And which one has a lower electrical draw? (from your post #8 it sounds like you know, but didn't want to say)

Also, I would imagine that is for the early pump (I think 003 vs. the newest revision the 010 that I am asking about in this thread)

Hulk

I had both. I am using the Bosch01 pump now

Yacht Master

Ok you missed the part about doing a search, that would be the helpfull part.
At least 200 posts that comment your question.
This is nothing new, the 010 has been out for years.
Here is one you won't find in a search,

https://mbworld.org/forums/m275-v12-...ion-pumps.html

HeissRod

Hasn't the consensus been here that the CM30 basically equals the 010?

m3j0n

thank you. Wouldn't it have been easier to just post that the bosch 010 > Johnson cm30? LOL

latemodel21

I replaced my new 010 pump with the CWA-50 (Pierburg pump used in BMW applications) ... and it was an improvement.

The chart below shows how the various pumps compare (in typical IC circuit environments) ... The Bosch 010 (an obvious upgrade from the 002) has pretty good flow relative torestriction ... the johnson appears to be suited for pumping bilges and little more. Where they intersect the "Charge Cooler Resistance" line, is the point at which they should be compared (go straight down from the intersection to the "flow" shown at bottom of graph).


This is a VERY long discussion on Heat exchangers and pumps that is interesting.

https://mbworld.org/forums/m275-v12-...ion-pumps.html

below is a pic of the 010 next to the CWA-50

Cheers,
Chris

HeissRod

That chart shows that the CM30 is worse than the original 002. How are people considering that an upgrade?

latemodel21

The answers that come to minds are

1) a cm30 flows better than a failed 002 .
2) a cm30 is likely installed at the same time as a new heat exchanger (making a valid end-user comparison impossible).
3) most people don't log their IATs before and after an "upgrade"
4) most consumers want to believe their car is better after every "upgrade"....

m3j0n

Chris, thanks for that info!!! Where is the best place to pick up a CWA-50? Do I have to replace system with larger lines to get it to fit? Also, I assume you did a HE as well. Got a recommendation on that? You seem to know your stuff and are willing to share the info. lol

latemodel21

Standard size lines fit on the CWA-50 . They retail for 200 or more, but seem to be easy to find new on ebay for close to $100 (they are popular for electric vehicle cooling duties and seem to have filled some shelves at failed electric car start-ups).

I did do an H.E. as well (here is some pics of that) https://mbworld.org/forums/sl55-amg-...ml#post6307087

The CWA-50 requires adapter harness that is easy to make (pics below) and it's size makes it easy to mount (I made the bracket in the photo). it draws a tick more than the 010 (4.8 amps vs 4 or so for the 010) ... and it is quieter than the 010.

Cheers,
Chris

m3j0n

do you have a p/n for the pierburg unit? If its a bmw application, does it have a bmw p/n? I cant seem to find any on ebay.

latemodel21

here is a link to the auction I bought mine on
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261703701088?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
it describes it as, "
Pierburg Hydraulic Pump/Coolant 50W pn. 7.01360.48.0."

on a related note, I was curious if my car would benefit from hard-wiring (to position 2, etc) the power for the IC pump. So I logged the power for a week or so and found for my car (2003 SL55 US version), the factory set-up is Ideal. Within the first 100 yards of driving from a cold start (my driveway, in the morning), the pump comes on and then stays on until a few seconds AFTER you shut the car off (with the only exception being that the pump will turn off if you come to a full stop when the IAT is below 70 F or so). If you start the car when it is warm, it comes on near-instantly.



Cheers,
Chris

JoeNobody

I bought a Stewart EMP WP29. I just need to get around to installing it. I scooped it up off ebay for only $150!

Vader55

Well said.

m3j0n

just bought the PLM HE off of ebay and got the pierburg cwa-50... lol.... mod bug bit me right in between the asscheeks...

latemodel21

That is a monster in terms of flow at pressure. Wow ... It is represented by the very top line in this graph ... I cant imagine ever needing a better pump than this. I expect you wont want to run this at full speed (maybe 3500 rpm?).

Looking forward to reading your before and after IAT data
Cheers,
Chris

JoeNobody

Yes I'll do some data logging of before and after. The EMP can be reprogrammed to run at either 10A or 25A configuration. The one I have is setup for 10A I believe.

latemodel21

I was under the impression that there were more options than that and they are user set-able
"Monitoring operation and manual control of the pump can be accomplished using the service tool EMPower Connect which is part of the EMP Service Suite available at no cost on our website at:
http://www.emp-corp.com/support/downloads/"

in any case, You got a great pump at a great price !

Cheers,
Chris

SilverStrk

I might have to change my cm30 for this if it shows well.. Let us know...

latemodel21

If you are thinking about it, keep your eyes open for a great deal like Joe N got. This is a $500 pump and if you find one for less, make sure it is a 12volt unit before you pull the trigger (24 volt is a common version of this pump). Installation will be more challenging as the inlet and outlet are 1" (your hoses are sized for bosch ports that are closer to 3/4") and you will have to run a new cable from the battery (or a high amperage source) as this pump pulls more current in its lower setting than the circuit in your car was designed (or fused) for.

In the end, it might be the best pump you can put on your car (though perhaps more pump than most need). I've been reasonably happy with the bosch 010 and feel I have enough pump with the CWA-50 ... but this EMP WP29 is likely as much pump as could be needed (and therefore, a good choice for "no-limit" modding).

Cheers,
Chris