I just got back from the dyno after doing MBH Longtubes, 200 cell Vibrant cats, 3" straight piped to the rear section (Res Delete), Eurocharged tune, and AFE air filters.

The car's first pull netted 419 whp, second pull made 429, and then 419. All pulls were about 380 ft-lbs. It was on a Dyno Dynamics, BUT IT RUNS A CORRECTION FACTOR TO MAKE IT +/- 5 WHP OF A DYNO JET. Please take my word on this. I operated one for several years.

On the same dyno a E55 with 180mm and tune made 450 whp and 500+ ft lbs. My CL55 made 430 whp and 440 ft lbs with primary cat delete, the same 200 cell cats, and a tune.

I am BEYOND pissed off right now. I know the re-tune from Eurocharged took because I no longer have a CEL for 02 sensors. The car has brand new plugs, burns no oil, and the oil stays completely clean. The engine is healthy. On the street the car pulls exactly like a stock C63 would.

I don't know what else to do at this point. Why is my car missing 50 WHP??? I spent $5,000 dollars this month on these mods. Can someone with heavy tuning experience please chime in.

Is a lack of X-pipe costing me 50 whp?

 

Can't really compare 55k to 63.

What were the numbers BEFORE the mods? That's what you need to know.

 

The car feels slow. The power gains are not there.

I'm not comparing the 63 to a 55. I was using those numbers as a reference point. If the car was consuming oil through the intake manifold lowering the octane and pulling timing due to knock I could understand that, but I have found no reason to believe it is.

The only thing I can think to do is schedule a custom tune with Jerry and put a wideband in place of the secondary 02 sensor.

 

bad gas or bad tune

 

Can you log and see if the timing is being retarded? You can try with the EC logging sw also on the street, just don't log more than 2 parameters

 

Thats a good idea. So i have the tuning software i used for my sl55 which was obd to usb and then the handheld flasher for the 63. Am i able to log using the handheld or do i need to use the v2 software?

Ive tuned at least 20 dsms so im familar with data logging but have never done it with a benz or na car for that matter.

 

No you can't log with the hand held. You need the v2 software

 

I'll get it hooked up tomorrow. Any idea on what kind of timing numbers I should be seeing at full load?

 

On the 63 no but you are looking for retard so if there is then you will see it

 

Am I missing your AFR? I see the sensor in the tail pipe.

 

Really interested to see some logs and the dyno sheets if you have them, hard to tell what's going on with out that stuff.

With cats I figured you'd be in the 450-60rwhp range, anything beyond that I've only seen decatted 63 cars achieve.

Seeing as I made 431rwhp with no tune, your definitely missing some power (I was told the super flow dyno I used read low though).

Your car sounds nice though, get to the bottom of your problem and keep the updates coming.

 

Its an optical illusion. There wasn't a sensor in. A shop I worked at in the past had a Dyno Dynamics and I tuned all of the Eclipses (DSMS) that came in. If you use a wideband in the exhaust of a car with a catalytic converter I have seen the numbers skewed by a whole point.

Tuning a car like that is incorrect. On a car without a cat it works ok. So if you think the car is at 11.5:1 going off the wideband after a cat, a wideband in place of a front 02 sensor or anywhere before the cat could be as lean as 12.5:1.

That is a huge difference. I've made over 1000 dyno pulls with my cars as well as customers. I do not know much about the software used to tune these cars, but I'd hope none of the tuners are using sniffers to tune cars with cats.

 

I've never seen more than .3 of a point leaner with cats. It's a hell of a lot better than not knowing your AFR. Good luck man.

 

How many different cars have you seen this on if I may ask?

 

A m156 car with your mods on our dynamics dunno makes 440rwhp.

As a reference, these cars make around 370rwhp on our dyno.

 

Do you run a correction factor by telling the dyno the room is much hotter then it actually is? 440 whp on an uncorrcted Dyno Dynamics is a very fast car. 440 uncorrected is 490 wheel horsepower on the dyno I was on. Probably a lot more then that actually.

 

I will have to check bro, don't recall. My e55 made 365rwhp bone stock on our dynamics, and full bolt with e85 I believe was around 540rwhp. When I took it to a local dynojet 224, it made 620rwhp.

If your car pulls good, and the af is around 11.8 from wot tip in to red line, your 429rwhp is not far off imo.

 

I hope you guys don't think I'm a retard basing everything on a dyno number because I am not. I have first hand experience using these tuning tools. With that being said I'm still confident there is an issue with my set up. My car is yielding power that a tune should give. This is fact. The car feels no different after the long tube install and retune. I sent an E mail out to Jerry, but he has not got back with me yet. If my car made 430 on this dyno with no correction I would be ecstatic, but I do not see that being possible with bolt ons.

I would have to assume your guys dyno is not running any form or temperature correction. 540 on a Dynamics is a monster. So 430 on your dyno is 490+ on the dyno I was on. I do not see 430 on this dyno as being very close at all to the power the car should be making. On the dyno my car was on, yours would be making closer to the 640 range you saw on the Dyno Jet. Back when the guy that owned the shop I worked at got the dyno we also had a stock E55 on it which made 371 whp. This was before he learned about the correction factor.

When you get in to the temperature screen you will see yours as a 1.000 where the dyno I was on used 118 degrees as a room temp which will show 1.180. He keeps the correction factor constant so everyone has the same numbers from the day he got it. If I remember right his came with the "weather station" which makes corrections for temperature and humidity. Although when you manually override the temperature it is no longer used.

This is something quite a few people do with a Dyno Dynamics. I know numbers are just numbers, but it makes it easier for shop owners when the horsepower advertised is the horsepower put down.

You have a very bad *** car by the way. I like it a lot.

 

I don't think you're a retard at all, but without the AFR you're shooting in the dark. You could be in the low 10s rich, and giving up 30HP. I understand you're skeptical of aft-cat readings.

Also, 11.8 is too rich of a target AFR for an N/A.

What's your theory on running tri-ys without a crossover?

 

After I get a hold of Jerry I'm going to probably have to rent the dyno for an hour and do a custom tune with their wideband. Back in the day I would tune turbo cars at 11.7:1 then richened it up a bit to 11.5:1. I thought N/A cars were tuned at 12.2:1.

As far as not using an x pipe goes I was trying to cut down the cost of fab time. Looking back I should have just bought the mid section with the x pipe. My N/A knowledge is limited when it comes to exhaust stuff for sure.

 

Yeah, Jerry should be able to square you away. I always went 12.5-12.8 for N/A WOT AFR. He'll know what these like. If not, check out BIP.

It may be worth a try to talk to MBH and see if they have any dyno experience with their LTs on the 63, with and w/out an X-pipe. They did on cats for the 55. I just tend to look at N/A like you need to cover all your bases to make optimum power.

Hoping you find the power you expected!

 

Yeah. Eurocharged is out. I will be contacting BIP tomorrow. If there is an underlying issue with my car I'm absolutely trying to find what it is and fix it. I talked with MBH, and Mike had an issue on his C63 with the 02 sensors causing fueling issues. It is completely possible I have something else going on.

Thanks for the help though I appreciate it. I will be going back to the dyno with a wideband and will do some data logging.

 

Why is eurocharged out?

 

+1

 

Without baselines, afr or the means to log you are simply shooting in the dark.
Like you said, without any reference points, they are just numbers.

Given this scenario you could have made up a number and given as quantified a result

Why don't you try using the dyno as it is truly intended, as a TOOL to dial in a tune and diagnose for power.

Your problem isn't your tuner. You don't have the required data to determine ANYTHING.

With 1000's of dynos under your belt, I would think that a box tune run on an dyno with no datlogging shouldn't really worry you.