Slalom
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 562
Likes: 0
From: Chicago
E55
Slalom
I was looking through the back pages of the most recent Motor Trend and noticed the the E55 had a speed of 66.5 mph for their slalom. Out of curiosity, I looked at the '02 M5. Its speed was 67. Given the range of numbers for various cars posted the difference does not appear to be much, although I am not sure I understand well the intricacies of measuring handling.
Why do I frequently hear on this board that the E55 falls well below the M5 in handling?
Why do I frequently hear on this board that the E55 falls well below the M5 in handling?
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
From: Newburgh, NY
2004 E55
Others here would know the technicalities of it all far better. I've read about non-linear steering, too much electronics in the braking and steering(can't forget braking ability and feel into corners when talking handling ability and characteristics). Weight distribution is also a big factor in handling. I had a 3 series car and test drove the current generation M5. There's no doubt that BMW concentrates most of all on producing well balanced cars with superb handling ability and feel. So many of the posts I've read here are about various cars strengths and faults, bragging and bad mouthing. The common thread is that we're all looking for the perfect car and it doesn't exist because perfect is having what you want and we want it all. LOL The hard part, proven by the endlist list of cars we've all had or plan on acquiring, is loving what you have and appreciating its strengths and accepting its faults. But how boring that would quickly become. My perfect car? A 911 all wheel drive Cabriolet Turbo with Tiptronic, a back seat comfortable enough for 2 adults on a long trip, heated seats and steering wheel, and the best auto sound system in existence.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 322
Likes: 0
From: Sunshine Ranches, FL
'06 M6, '05 Lambo Gallardo
I guess Edward Conroy and I think a lot alike since I always find myself agreeing with his posts. The perfect car seems to be so easy to do, yet no one has built it. I realize this is very subjective, but I think most of us on here fall into the same niche. We want a comfy sedan with all the creature comforts with sports car acceleration, handling and braking. Good looks and superior build quality as well.
The E55 comes so close...drop 500lbs from the weight and put some real rubber on the car to allow it to handle as it should. This will also imporve grip in straight line and limit the annoying electronic intervention.
Give us a choice of 3 gearboxes...Manual, SMG type and auto. Allow the suspension to truly be adjusted to what is really comfort, sport, and "competition". For me, a little more agressiveness in the styling...so offer an optional sport styling package. (Like Porsche offers an Aero-Kit for their cars) Something to truly differentiate the E55 from the other E class cars.
I think the new M5 will be closer to what I think is perfect...I wish MB was reading this. Afterall, how can a "supercar" (SLR) offer the same tranny as a Buick???
The E55 comes so close...drop 500lbs from the weight and put some real rubber on the car to allow it to handle as it should. This will also imporve grip in straight line and limit the annoying electronic intervention.
Give us a choice of 3 gearboxes...Manual, SMG type and auto. Allow the suspension to truly be adjusted to what is really comfort, sport, and "competition". For me, a little more agressiveness in the styling...so offer an optional sport styling package. (Like Porsche offers an Aero-Kit for their cars) Something to truly differentiate the E55 from the other E class cars.
I think the new M5 will be closer to what I think is perfect...I wish MB was reading this. Afterall, how can a "supercar" (SLR) offer the same tranny as a Buick???
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 322
Likes: 0
From: Sunshine Ranches, FL
'06 M6, '05 Lambo Gallardo
Originally posted by Pbglas
The SLR and Buick share a transmission?
Has anyone tried or asked AMG about wider rear tires? What is the downside?
The SLR and Buick share a transmission?
Has anyone tried or asked AMG about wider rear tires? What is the downside?
What a joke!
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 913
Likes: 0
From: Wilkes Barre Pa.
Fiscal Neo Con Express
hey guys,
i just got my road & track in the mail.
in the back the M5 is also quicker in the slalom.
but....the 0-100 times and the 1/4 mile times
the E55 just eats it up. this coming from a
guy who just bought a new M5
i just got my road & track in the mail.
in the back the M5 is also quicker in the slalom.
but....the 0-100 times and the 1/4 mile times
the E55 just eats it up. this coming from a
guy who just bought a new M5
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 562
Likes: 0
From: Chicago
E55
I think my initial message is being misunderstood. I was not remarking on the E55 being slower in the slalom but rather the difference being prehaps negligible. I was wondering why so much fuss is made of such a slight difference.
Trending Topics
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 913
Likes: 0
From: Wilkes Barre Pa.
Fiscal Neo Con Express
pbglas,
i have no idea.
i don't think i would visually be able to tell
if one car was going 66 or 68 mph.
even if i were the one doing the driving i probably
could not tell the difference. well look at it this way...
it gives M5 owners something to hang our hat on while
your looking at us in your rearview mirror
i have no idea.
i don't think i would visually be able to tell
if one car was going 66 or 68 mph.
even if i were the one doing the driving i probably
could not tell the difference. well look at it this way...
it gives M5 owners something to hang our hat on while
your looking at us in your rearview mirror
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
7 Craziest Things AMG Gas Ever Built
Verdad Gallardo
New Electric Mercedes-AMG GT 4-Door Coupe Unveiled: 10 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
6 Mercedes Models That Did NOT Age Well (But Are Somehow Still Cool)
Verdad Gallardo
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
From: Newburgh, NY
2004 E55
Late last year I test drove a 2000 M5. Having loved my lowly 325IS, the M5 was a joy to drive. And I like the styling. But my wife doesn't drive a stick. I just couldn't be selfish enough to spend that kind of money for a car only I would drive. If it had been an automatic it would be in my garage right now. Just didn't care for the new 5 series look, so I stayed with Mercedes and we're enjoying the E55 a lot.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 562
Likes: 0
From: Chicago
E55
Edward C., could you corroborate that while the M5 might handle better, the diference with the E55 is not all that much?
I did not buy the M5 for much the same reason as you. I would not want to drive a stick anymore. I drove sticks only for over 15 years. With a problem with my right arm, I never learnt to get the most out of them.
I did not buy the M5 for much the same reason as you. I would not want to drive a stick anymore. I drove sticks only for over 15 years. With a problem with my right arm, I never learnt to get the most out of them.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 562
Likes: 0
From: Chicago
E55
Originally posted by RS-Kicker
Some things can't be measured.
Things like feeling...
Some things can't be measured.
Things like feeling...
But I understand that is not where you were going.
Objective --- or near objective --- measures are useful precisely because of the unreliability of `feeling.' I got a much greater sense of involvement and feeling of speed and manouverability in a Mitsubishi Evo than in bigger cars going faster. There is a delightful thrill to the Evo. There is also a great feeling to a go-cart. But would I want it when I was doing somehting mundane --- like going to work?
There is place for the Evo like feeling. But there is a place for objective measurment as well. And it seems that in terms of hte latter, hte difference is small.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 318
Likes: 0
E55 AMG
I agree with others that handling has a lot to do with driver "feeling", but that can be very subjective. However, you can't just look at raw numbers either, because it's the total package that counts. And if it's raw numbers you are after, you should also look at skidpad and braking, because these are also part of the overall equation. Skidpad and braking are areas that the new E55 has not done exceptionally well in. Not bad by any means, but dissapointing given the fact that the old E55 was actually better in those two areas.
But speaking of subjective handling feel, Road&Track in their March 2000 test actually rated the old W210 E55 as the better handler vs. the M5. Gave the E55 "8.5" for handling, while the M5 got an "8". The E55 also out braked the M5 in that test, and they both pulled .90g's on the skidpad. R&T stated "The E55 is a real surpise on the track... ...its chassis is more balanced, exhibiting less understeer than the M5".
So for the new E55, I had hoped it would be tops in all categories, but I think its heavier weight is its main handicap. It's absolutely tops in speed, looks, luxury and image though.
But speaking of subjective handling feel, Road&Track in their March 2000 test actually rated the old W210 E55 as the better handler vs. the M5. Gave the E55 "8.5" for handling, while the M5 got an "8". The E55 also out braked the M5 in that test, and they both pulled .90g's on the skidpad. R&T stated "The E55 is a real surpise on the track... ...its chassis is more balanced, exhibiting less understeer than the M5".
So for the new E55, I had hoped it would be tops in all categories, but I think its heavier weight is its main handicap. It's absolutely tops in speed, looks, luxury and image though.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 562
Likes: 0
From: Chicago
E55
I agree and stand corrected. What really matters is feeling.
The skidpad figures are disturbing. Down .05g. How much is the weight difference between the 210 and the 211. I would have guessed less than 100Kg.
Has anyone tried putting fatter tyres on it?
The skidpad figures are disturbing. Down .05g. How much is the weight difference between the 210 and the 211. I would have guessed less than 100Kg.
Has anyone tried putting fatter tyres on it?
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 318
Likes: 0
E55 AMG
The W210 E55 is about 3700 lbs and the W211 E55 is about 4200 lbs, 500 lbs (225 kg) can make quite a difference. The M5 is about 4000 lbs.
There's much to be said about the feeling of a light weight sports car. Take the Miata for example, out gunned by just about everything out there. Yet it took Autocar's Best Handling Car Award, even beating out the 911 GT3! (Probably why you enjoyed the EVO so much, it's quite light compared to the E55.)
There's much to be said about the feeling of a light weight sports car. Take the Miata for example, out gunned by just about everything out there. Yet it took Autocar's Best Handling Car Award, even beating out the 911 GT3! (Probably why you enjoyed the EVO so much, it's quite light compared to the E55.)
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 318
Likes: 0
E55 AMG
C&D and R&T both listed the W211 E55's curb weight as 4200 lbs(with no driver), even though MB's website says it's 4087lbs (maybe for a stripped base model).
Yeah, others have suggested that the Conti's on the new E55 may not be the best tires. The old E55 had wider tires and Michelin Pilot Sports (as did the M5).
Yeah, others have suggested that the Conti's on the new E55 may not be the best tires. The old E55 had wider tires and Michelin Pilot Sports (as did the M5).
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,256
Likes: 0
From: Melbourne, Australia
E55, F550, S600 Ducati 999
Originally posted by mikE55
C&D and R&T both listed the W211 E55's curb weight as 4200 lbs(with no driver), even though MB's website says it's 4087lbs (maybe for a stripped base model).
Yeah, others have suggested that the Conti's on the new E55 may not be the best tires. The old E55 had wider tires and Michelin Pilot Sports (as did the M5).
C&D and R&T both listed the W211 E55's curb weight as 4200 lbs(with no driver), even though MB's website says it's 4087lbs (maybe for a stripped base model).
Yeah, others have suggested that the Conti's on the new E55 may not be the best tires. The old E55 had wider tires and Michelin Pilot Sports (as did the M5).
The weight of the E55 is 4087lbs which includes fuel, driver and luggage, it is an EC mandated manufacturer standard for weight measurement.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 562
Likes: 0
From: Chicago
E55
Originally posted by stephens
Both C&D and R&T tested the same car from memory, they also probably received the same, incorrect press pack. At the time of the tests the weight for US spec cars was still unlisted.
The weight of the E55 is 4087lbs which includes fuel, driver and luggage, it is an EC mandated manufacturer standard for weight measurement.
Both C&D and R&T tested the same car from memory, they also probably received the same, incorrect press pack. At the time of the tests the weight for US spec cars was still unlisted.
The weight of the E55 is 4087lbs which includes fuel, driver and luggage, it is an EC mandated manufacturer standard for weight measurement.
BTW do you know why the E55 weights 100 KG's more than the E500 whihc weighs less than the E320?
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 318
Likes: 0
E55 AMG
The NA 5.5 AMG engine is heavier than the 5.0, the Supercharger adds even more weight. Add the beefed up supension, brakes and wheels, and that all spells more weight.
Don't mean to start a weight debate here, but R&T's Aug. '03 0-100-0 issue tested the new E55 again and listed the "test weight" as 4390 lbs. So if MB's claimed curb weight of 4087lbs is true, it must be for a car with no options and no driver (every driver's weight will be different anyway, so that can't be included in curb weight). Either way, the E55 is one heavy beast. But it's still the heavy weight champ of the world, with a killer knock out punch!
Don't mean to start a weight debate here, but R&T's Aug. '03 0-100-0 issue tested the new E55 again and listed the "test weight" as 4390 lbs. So if MB's claimed curb weight of 4087lbs is true, it must be for a car with no options and no driver (every driver's weight will be different anyway, so that can't be included in curb weight). Either way, the E55 is one heavy beast. But it's still the heavy weight champ of the world, with a killer knock out punch!
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 354
Likes: 45
From: Chicago
e55
Originally posted by Pbglas
Is that how `unladen weight' is defined?
BTW do you know why the E55 weights 100 KG's more than the E500 whihc weighs less than the E320?
Is that how `unladen weight' is defined?
BTW do you know why the E55 weights 100 KG's more than the E500 whihc weighs less than the E320?
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 562
Likes: 0
From: Chicago
E55
Thanks MikE55 and bones.
The E500 is shown as being slightly lighter than the E320. That confused me.
I also had not thought a supercharger can weigh even a 100 lbs, let alone 100 Kg.
I thought also the weight distribution front rear was something like 53/47. I am guessing the E500 is similar. Then what is putting the weight on the rear. Notice no spare in the E55.
The E500 is shown as being slightly lighter than the E320. That confused me.
I also had not thought a supercharger can weigh even a 100 lbs, let alone 100 Kg.
I thought also the weight distribution front rear was something like 53/47. I am guessing the E500 is similar. Then what is putting the weight on the rear. Notice no spare in the E55.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 562
Likes: 0
From: Chicago
E55
Originally posted by mikE55
I agree with others that handling has a lot to do with driver "feeling", but that can be very subjective. However, you can't just look at raw numbers either, because it's the total package that counts. And if it's raw numbers you are after, you should also look at skidpad and braking, because these are also part of the overall equation. Skidpad and braking are areas that the new E55 has not done exceptionally well in. Not bad by any means, but dissapointing given the fact that the old E55 was actually better in those two areas.
. It's absolutely tops in speed, looks, luxury and image though.
I agree with others that handling has a lot to do with driver "feeling", but that can be very subjective. However, you can't just look at raw numbers either, because it's the total package that counts. And if it's raw numbers you are after, you should also look at skidpad and braking, because these are also part of the overall equation. Skidpad and braking are areas that the new E55 has not done exceptionally well in. Not bad by any means, but dissapointing given the fact that the old E55 was actually better in those two areas.
. It's absolutely tops in speed, looks, luxury and image though.
Also did the E55 not win someone's 0--100--0 tests?
