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The Haltech elite 2500 parallel install.

 
Old 09-23-2015, 10:48 PM
  #26  
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And please, do not be disillusioned by the people that will post that have no idea of the difference between a spark plug and an injector.
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Old 09-23-2015, 11:01 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by BC928 View Post
And please, do not be disillusioned by the people that will post that have no idea of the difference between a spark plug and an injector.
No worries, im 2300 bucks in this and I won't be backing out. im confidently more informed on what im willing to take on than most people would realize given that I don't work at a shop for a living or make some hype products or whatever. Talk is cheap, data is everything in my book.

Ordered a Honeywell fuel pressure sensor yesterday as well. Im questioning whether to mount it pre injectors, or post. I really want to see this #8 cylinder lean problem is fact or fiction, but with data to explain more as to why.

Ill be ordering some micro quadlok connectors and dtm connectors tomorrow for tapping and rewiring things and try to find a reasonable location to mount the aftermarket ecu. (passenger side cowl cover is the easiest, but id like to put it closer to the factory ecu)
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Old 09-23-2015, 11:13 PM
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8 wide band o2 sensors (A friend of mine did this on a different car and found 40% differences in the 02 outputs under a "normal" tune), and you will be able to see what the tuned duty cycles come out to on those trouble cylinders.

I scoped an engine that died from 8 "going". It was tuned, but clearly there is no one that can add additional fuel to that one hole. It heats up the cylinder (Detonation? Just lean-burn heat? A mix of problems from hot coolant flow? - I don't know), and expands it enough start scoring the walls. Or the ring land breaks from hammering in det.

Let me know if there is anything I can do.
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Old 09-23-2015, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by BC928 View Post
8 wide band o2 sensors (A friend of mine did this on a different car and found 40% differences in the 02 outputs under a "normal" tune), and you will be able to see what the tuned duty cycles come out to on those trouble cylinders.

I scoped an engine that died from 8 "going". It was tuned, but clearly there is no one that can add additional fuel to that one hole. It heats up the cylinder (Detonation? Just lean-burn heat? A mix of problems from hot coolant flow? - I don't know), and expands it enough start scoring the walls. Or the ring land breaks from hammering in det.

Let me know if there is anything I can do.
Yeah, if i could round up enough locals to strap a wideband to each exhaust primary, i could definitely get some valuable information. The elite has individual cylinder mapping capabilities, so there's no restraint there. I may eventually try down the road. 40% variation is very high. Usually youll see 10-20% variation max. Lots of variables control those factors though. Difference in airflow, heat evaporation latency, and injector dynamics are the primary factors.

You could tune one side at a time with 4 widebands excluding the opposing bank while doing it (charge air typically isn't gonna be pulled from one side of the manifold all the way to the other side)
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Old 09-25-2015, 07:44 AM
  #30  
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Scoped the crank trigger yesterday. 60-2 wheel.
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Old 09-25-2015, 09:48 AM
  #31  
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Glad to see someone working on this. I spoke to Haltech a few years back and one of their shops had been working on making this work for our cars but kept hitting walls. Really need a great programmer with a ton of extra time. We all hope that is you
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Old 09-27-2015, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Exotic-metal55 View Post
Glad to see someone working on this. I spoke to Haltech a few years back and one of their shops had been working on making this work for our cars but kept hitting walls. Really need a great programmer with a ton of extra time. We all hope that is you
Best of luck with this...subscribed!
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Old 09-27-2015, 03:16 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Exotic-metal55 View Post
Glad to see someone working on this. I spoke to Haltech a few years back and one of their shops had been working on making this work for our cars but kept hitting walls. Really need a great programmer with a ton of extra time. We all hope that is you
It does take a bit of headbanging against a wall at times before you'll make your way through problems. Being able to get and understand the data is the key part. Im not a huge mercedes guru by any means, but I am a pretty big electronics nerd and try to understand arduino code and programming. An eventual goal would be to get everything setup where I can decipher canbus channeling, but that'll be a long ways out.
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Old 09-27-2015, 09:19 PM
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I think you may also encounter some misinformation from this forum. So many here have simply repeated "Its just so complex" - but in reality, while there is indeed a canbus, I think understanding, once you know the communication going on at the canbus, you can utilize star to start turning things off, so they are not distracting.

An engine runs on Fuel and Air - and when you have both of those, you are doing quite well.

The ODB2 systems code would essentially be bypassed once you have the OEM ECU dummied on the sensors it needs to see to keep happy.

Assuming you can throw out the unimportant at first like the Radio and HVAC, and any interaction with the Suspension, then you essentially are dealing with systems revolving around the below, with both the need to control them, but also show the OEM ECU the parameters it is expecting.

Engine Speed
Vehicle Speed
TPS and DRW
IAT
Coolant Temp
Fuel Mixture (sensing for control of engine, but also parameters expected by ECU)
Boost pressure and Loop feedback


The purest idea of doing this, which I do not know whether it has been done, is instead of dummying sensor outputs the ECU is expecting - but rather to actually Sniff out the actual communication (CanBus or otherwise) that needs to happen to make everything work WITHOUT the ECU. Not even saying this is possible, or easy, but it would be purest.

Because if you flip the concept on its head, and everyone always says (on any newer platform) that the ECU is hard to trick - *Remove* the ECU. Then who is left to trick? Emulating the communication with the ECU's counterparts then becomes the issue. And who are these partners? The TCU, the ABS system, the brake-by-wire (which is a big big deal)

Anyway, just musing.
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Old 09-27-2015, 11:22 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by BC928 View Post
I think you may also encounter some misinformation from this forum. So many here have simply repeated "Its just so complex" - but in reality, while there is indeed a canbus, I think understanding, once you know the communication going on at the canbus, you can utilize star to start turning things off, so they are not distracting.

An engine runs on Fuel and Air - and when you have both of those, you are doing quite well.

The ODB2 systems code would essentially be bypassed once you have the OEM ECU dummied on the sensors it needs to see to keep happy.

Assuming you can throw out the unimportant at first like the Radio and HVAC, and any interaction with the Suspension, then you essentially are dealing with systems revolving around the below, with both the need to control them, but also show the OEM ECU the parameters it is expecting.

Engine Speed
Vehicle Speed
TPS and DRW
IAT
Coolant Temp
Fuel Mixture (sensing for control of engine, but also parameters expected by ECU)
Boost pressure and Loop feedback


The purest idea of doing this, which I do not know whether it has been done, is instead of dummying sensor outputs the ECU is expecting - but rather to actually Sniff out the actual communication (CanBus or otherwise) that needs to happen to make everything work WITHOUT the ECU. Not even saying this is possible, or easy, but it would be purest.

Because if you flip the concept on its head, and everyone always says (on any newer platform) that the ECU is hard to trick - *Remove* the ECU. Then who is left to trick? Emulating the communication with the ECU's counterparts then becomes the issue. And who are these partners? The TCU, the ABS system, the brake-by-wire (which is a big big deal)

Anyway, just musing.

yeah.
i'd love to reverse engineer the CANbus on the car once running the stand alone down the road. it becomes quite challenging because every input and output has a channel, it's simply a matter of defining the channels and their values, and going through the data to understand what's happening.

Emulating values isn't really a big deal, mainly because there's little need to do it, and secondly most sensors can be rescaled with an arduino module with ease. (analogreadwrite)
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Old 09-28-2015, 07:20 AM
  #36  
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I've seen a couple older benzes run haltech so it's definitely possible
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Old 01-23-2016, 09:49 PM
  #37  
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Mitch,

Any update?
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Old 01-31-2016, 10:57 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Yacht Master View Post
Mitch,

Any update?
Nothing too exciting, i should be making some progress for mounting everything and wiring in the coming weeks of February.

Ive gotten everything except 2 widebands, and the extension harness for the oe ecu. Once I've made headway on the mounting bracket and wired power and ground through the cabin to the battery in the back, things should move rather quickly.
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Old 02-19-2016, 03:24 PM
  #39  
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Everything has been ordered.
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Old 03-15-2017, 12:20 PM
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Ok, it's been over a year since the last update. This thread went quiet when it was just getting interesting. Updates??

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Old 03-15-2017, 12:49 PM
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And stand alone from SD
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Old 03-15-2017, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeJErnst View Post
Ok, it's been over a year since the last update. This thread went quiet when it was just getting interesting. Updates??


Yep, after taking a step deeper into the system, i doubted the capabilities of the ignition control as there's a torque control variable on the bus. Throwing timing during shifts is where i question things as timing is indeed retarded during shifting, so i started to dig deeper.

On my spare time im reverse engineering the bus, but time has been pretty limited recently.

Currently the only 2 options for a complete package are m150 developmental and bosch ms6.1 /ms6.2
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Old 03-16-2017, 09:06 PM
  #43  
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Mitch is a Magical man, Im confident you'll figure it out
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Old 03-17-2017, 08:54 AM
  #44  
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one car at a time
Very interested and excited to see what happens....Good luck !!
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Old 12-18-2018, 05:21 PM
  #45  
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this is so interesting Mitch, did you manage to get it working and what else was tricky along the way?
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Old 12-18-2018, 08:09 PM
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Doubt it ,it would be all over the forums
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Old 12-19-2018, 01:30 AM
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Iíve put a Link Thunder in my car and had it running for well over a year now. On the engine side of things itís all pretty straightforward but I didnít bother with the canbus hacking and just swapped the auto gerbox for manual. I did want to get a SD/Syvecs kit but it has not been released until now. Shame really as any modern stand-alone is so much more advanced than the ME2.8...
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Old 12-19-2018, 08:30 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Alex L View Post
Iíve put a Link Thunder in my car and had it running for well over a year now. On the engine side of things itís all pretty straightforward but I didnít bother with the canbus hacking and just swapped the auto gerbox for manual. I did want to get a SD/Syvecs kit but it has not been released until now. Shame really as any modern stand-alone is so much more advanced than the ME2.8...

Ill have can mapping strategies for link thunder expected in q1 2019.
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Old 01-12-2019, 11:33 AM
  #49  
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In for updates. I haven't looked at the link softwear but is it able to reduce power during shift if the can protocal is functioning?
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