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I have a question. So how much iat difference are we talking about with your new sensor position vs the stock location in terms of meth injection? 2 degrees? 20 degrees? 50 degrees?
You can more than double the meth/water gph when you relocate the IAT sensor with correct IAT readings. How much decrease in IAT's? Well, let me explain...
Factory IAT Sensor Location Factory Intercooler:
1) 3 gph pre-supercharger meth nozzle 2) 7 gph pre-intercooler meth nozzle 3) Cone air filters placed with decent access to fresh air 4) 15 PSI 5) 75% water to 25% VP Meth 6) Single pass intercooler/2 heat exchangers/2 cm30 pumps/larger lines
IATs would raise during acceleration....gradually. Anything past 1/8 mile and I would start approaching 140 degree IATs. (starting 20 degree above ambient of 85 degrees)
From 1/2 mile to 1 mile distances, with this set up, would put me near 200 degree IATs. From a dig or roll.....it always ended with the same high IATs.
Factory IAT Sensor Location Factory Intercooler and Twin Top Mounts:
1) 3 gph pre-supercharger meth nozzle 2) 7 gph pre-intercooler meth nozzle 3) Cone air filters placed with decent access to fresh air 4) 15 PSI 5) 75% water to 25% VP Meth 6) Single pass intercooler/2 heat exchangers/2 cm30 pumps/larger lines
IATs would start rising @ 1/2-1mile, but would never reach 150 degrees. (again, starting 20 degrees above the 85 degree ambient temps)
Relocated IAT Sensor with Factory Intercooler and Twin Top Mounts
1) 3 gph pre-supercharger meth nozzle 2) 7 gph x 2 post intercooler meth nozzles 3) Cone air filters placed with decent access to fresh air 4) 17psi 5) 75% water to 25% VP Meth 6) Single pass intercooler/2 heat exchangers/2 cm30 pumps/larger lines
I will drop 9-12 degrees from current (from dig or from roll) IAT readings up to a mile in distance without IATs increasing from the initial drop. (ambient temps on these runs were in the low 80's with 25-30 degree above ambient IAT's. No need to wait for intercooler water to cool.)
Fooling the sensor with false IAT's can be potentially dangerous to the engine. You start hitting 200+ degree IAT's (when you are in it to win it) without fuel dump to cool the cylinders/supercharger disengagement could lead to an introduction to the cylinder #8 issue.
Originally Posted by 210lvr
From what I've read is windchill doesn't affect inanimate objects. Wind chill is a human sensation. So I'm interested how much difference a potentially wet iat sensor with the intake charge blowing on it reads vs what the oem iat sensor in your new installed position reads with, I assume, much less moisture on the probe.
Individuals are placing meth/water nozzles a few inches upstream from the IAT sensor. You need to also factor many are using larger water to meth ratios that slow down evaporation rate. The sensor is getting sprayed. No two ways about it.
1) Meth/Water will partially insulate the sensor from hot air 2) Heat will be pulled from sensor itself during evaporation 3) Properly vaporized meth/water before sensor will give false reading 4) IAT sensor will fail with this set up
The way you've laid that info out, it seems that the sensor in the factory position is reading high with meth, no? So, it would seem that the potential losses there is on a power making basis, not a false cool reading leading to the engine giving in?
By moving the sensor you can get cooler readings, be them actually cooler or not. So there is the benefit of the meth being truely realised.
Or am I missing something or over thinking it? Just appears that we are robbing ourselves, not that we are falsely cooling the sensor.
The way you've laid that info out, it seems that the sensor in the factory position is reading high with meth, no? So, it would seem that the potential losses there is on a power making basis, not a false cool reading leading to the engine giving in?
I posted that my meth/water nozzle is pre-intercooler? That's over 1ft before the IAT sensor? (Granted, pre-intercooler meth/water spraying is not the most ideal location for effectiveness. That's our only option, really) Soooooo...... my results show how restricted we are using meth/water injection with the factory IAT sensor location.
Originally Posted by sexyxe
By moving the sensor you can get cooler readings, be them actually cooler or not. So there is the benefit of the meth being truely realised.
The sensor reads correctly as long as the air before it is not saturated. Think about. You cool the air before the sensor and still have another 1 ft+ of intercooler piping/surge tanks for the air to warm up. The relocated IAT sensor is 3 inches from the valves.
Originally Posted by sexyxe
Or am I missing something or over thinking it? Just appears that we are robbing ourselves, not that we are falsely cooling the sensor.
guys, you want to figure out if your intake is flowing our not? Put a manometer at the y pipe. you should be seeing close to atmospheric pressure if you're seeing a lot of vacuum then you have a restriction.
guys, you want to figure out if your intake is flowing our not? Put a manometer at the y pipe. you should be seeing close to atmospheric pressure if you're seeing a lot of vacuum then you have a restriction.
Twin 2.5"-3.0" intake tubes will supply more air than any throttle body we use can handle. Other than a straight T-pipe......I don't believe ANY intake/Y-pipe will really cause any flow issues. Again, its after the blower when turbulence would become problematic.
Ram air set up at high speeds with a T-pipe could cause funky turbulence.......but not enough to rob much horsepower. 90 degree angles are not good for ANY type of air/fluid flow.
How did you mount your IAT probe in your surge tank? If I could retro fit it, and just weld the old bung hole up I will. My car is apart at the moment so won't be a problem, if it is a simple enough job.
Guys, I know I'm not fortunate enough to be a true member of the AMG family, but would the intake mods work for a straight M113 as well?
Especially the BMC-esque carbon fiber intake trumpets?
How did you mount your IAT probe in your surge tank? If I could retro fit it, and just weld the old bung hole up I will. My car is apart at the moment so won't be a problem, if it is a simple enough job.
My fabricator used metal washers and welded them to create a lip. Someone here once talked about using a aftermarket sensor before?
I would place the IAT sensor on the flat back of the surge tank where the round intercooler pipe connects to. Either side would work.
Guys, I know I'm not fortunate enough to be a true member of the AMG family, but would the intake mods work for a straight M113 as well?
Especially the BMC-esque carbon fiber intake trumpets?
First off, this is about the Mercedes family. Period.
Second off, screw the twin pipe intake set up if you are not boosting. I have a straight intake pipe on my 2000 E55 and it works awesome.
Third off, BMC Trumpets work well. I believe the largest of the BMC Trumpets are good up to 350 hp. I used two with an older set up of mine.
.
First off, this is about the Mercedes family. Period.
Second off, screw the twin pipe intake set up if you are not boosting. I have a straight intake pipe on my 2000 E55 and it works awesome.
Third off, BMC Trumpets work well. I believe the largest of the BMC Trumpets are good up to 350 hp. I used two with an older set up of mine.
.
EREBUS, thank you!!
So, you would recommend only 1 Trumpet for the M113, instead of 2?
Does it attach onto the TB directly..as in no mods?
Would you have a model number/name, perchance?
As for the larger than stock TB, I have always stayed away from the larger TB as most reported issues. Have you figured a solution to the "hiccup" that many report after installing a larger TB ?
Any update to this thread? Sorry for digging it up again.
Any real-world usage and more dyno's (seat of the pants and otherwise) on the NeedsWings intake?
Well, I guess I have something to share? Do you see this set up? Let's say I replaced the filters with panty hose on multiple runs (old school kinda sh*t) and it gained me nothing. Why? Because there is more than enough air than my bored out 90mm throttle body can take. NeedsWings intake will flow more than factory......period. Regardless, you will never really see or feel a difference on the dyno or on the streets. My point? Enjoy the car. Let my thousands of dollars in experimentation help you relax with getting the NeedsWings intake. Good company.
I made my own. The IATs at the beginning and end of the dyno run change about 8-10C. My mapping sessions are live due to standalone ECU so the car is run non stop whole day. I haven't switched on meth yet.
I made my own. The IATs at the beginning and end of the dyno run change about 8-10C. My mapping sessions are live due to standalone ECU so the car is run non stop whole day. I haven't switched on meth yet.
I made my own. The IATs at the beginning and end of the dyno run change about 8-10C. My mapping sessions are live due to standalone ECU so the car is run non stop whole day. I haven't switched on meth yet.
I wanna know more about that Y adapter. Did you make it custom? Does it still use the bypass valve? Any pics you can share? I've been thinking about doing the same to my CLK project.
I wanna know more about that Y adapter. Did you make it custom? Does it still use the bypass valve? Any pics you can share? I've been thinking about doing the same to my CLK project.
It's a custom inlet that I had designed, flow tested and machined out of a single billet aluminium. I don't use a bypass in my car. I may have one picture of it posted somewhere but it's pretty much what it looks like from the outside.
It's great seeing these killer setups again! Feels like times past. Alex, is that duel TB's I'm looking at? I've heard it suggested before, but didn't know anyone had actually pulled it off!
Last edited by StarvingArtist; Mar 13, 2018 at 08:15 AM.
It's a custom inlet that I had designed, flow tested and machined out of a single billet aluminium. I don't use a bypass in my car. I may have one picture of it posted somewhere but it's pretty much what it looks like from the outside.
Alex on a weistec you really need a bypass ,that’s your safety feature
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