V-AMG

As the title states. I was building a catch can today and the pulley caught my eye. Just installed the new EuroCharged 83mm with a BWK last week. Its supposed to be "self-adjusting" though mine required shims. I installed all 4 shims I had from factory as it scrapped without them.

Today, I drove for 30 mins, checked the pulley and barely fit a 0.035mm gauge in there (0.038mm wouldn't go). Car cooled off for 30 mins, I started it for a brief second to move it, and noticed the gap got larger. I checked again and was about 0.080mm.

Im stumped. What's the deal?? I know 0.080mm is too wide but 30 mins prior, it was barely at 0.035mm with the car shut off... I have NO clue whether i have too few or too many shims. Seems like its a tight gap when car is hot, gap opens as the car cools.

Car drives well, boosts well, engagement is ok. Not super smooth but not too bad. Clutch doesn't drag at idle, I can easily stop it by hand.

Thoughts?

Ls1toAMG

It's very common for the gap to vary as you spin the pulley with the belt off. It is best to keep the max gap to .060 or less. Mine was between 25 and 55 all the way around. Just keep an eye on it and get a scattershield

mufc

It seems quite typical unfortunately for this platform. Most of the tuner items seem to have issues and either don't work well or wear out quickly. Clutched S/C pulleys seem to grenade and do not run true, fixed pulleys seem to have tuning issues that can't be tuned out in most cases and the tuners can't fix it on most cars, aluminum pulleys have bearings that fail very quickly, engine bay tanks that don't fit well and you loose the cabin filter. 82mm throttle body upgrades that have the "hiccup" rear toe links / camber arms that rattle around. The list goes on. I guess you really do get what you pay for.
If you use your car every day and need it to be reliable and by that I mean that you can drive for 50,000 miles with out stuff falling off or breaking then you are better off paying more money and using companies like Renntech or Kleeman. Your car might not be as fast but it will be reliable and faster than stock. A good set of long tube headers, larger crank pulley by Renntech or Kleeman a good auxiliary heat exchanger and coolant pump and maybe an 80mm throttle body would be a strong street set up and you get to go anywhere you want with out stuff breaking.

V-AMG

i may not have described this correctly.

My pulley is pretty inline with the clutch all around, its that it gets drawn in and released, what seems to be incompletely.

When the car is hot (after 30 mins of driving) the gap is about 0.035mm evenly all around, in 3 places i measure (9, 12 and 3 oclock).

But once the car cools off, the overall gap grows to nearly 0.080mm, once again, evenly and all around once again measuring at 9, 12 and 3 oclock)

pumpedTSI

The laws of expansion and contraction at work I guess.....

210lvr

Those pulleys do not run true. factory pulley on every 55 I have seen runs true. It's a misstep in the design somewhere. There is a reason the factory pulley costs as much as it does. The engineering takes a lot of time and testing. I run a 77mm and it is what it is.

If yours runs true then I wouldn't worry about it. The correct way of setting the gap is to put the pulley on a hot plate, heat up to temp (I'd have to look it up to get you the right temp) then install and adjust while its hot. I just go for a 10 minute hard test drive then make my adjustment as I don't have a hot plate.

Honestly I'm jealous yours runs true to be honest.

V-AMG

Aha! There is some very useful info.

So the correct way to measure the gap is while the pulley is hot? We need 0.035mm gap while hot? if so, then my cold measurements with a large gap are irrelevant?

Zod

Well said

210lvr

Yes. Per WIS the gap needs to be adjusted hot using the hot plate method.

WIS provides no cold spec, so I guess you can say it's irrelevant. However I will say that when cold my aftermarket 77 has a much larger gap than ANY factory pulley I've seen and I've literally seen dozens of them...

It also runs no where near true and hasn't since new.

mufc

One potential solution to the run out issue might be to use the Demetre type pulley. You reuse the original clutch part ( backing ) of the pulley. Grind off the three rivet heads and remove the factory original grooved pulley and springs. Re-rivet on the new under-drive pulley to that. A benefit is that you can also use the factory springs that don't seem to be so problematic. I have never used one personally but heard some good reports - not sure where you would get replacement rivets.

Elhonaz

can you post the wis document?

V-AMG

+1

210lvr

Give me a few

210lvr

pm sent. I don't think I'm allowed to directly link the document here.

Edit: I should read the document closer. I was in error. Wis states to allow the clutch to then cool down to ambient after mounting. It then says to adjust it using the washers. Which isn't possible if it's mounted lol. Regardless, I would adjust it hot as the clutch will be hot when driving. If you adjust it to spec when cold it will stick when hot with the aftermarket pulley

It's obvious to me now the hot plate is just for mounting. Sorry for the confusion.

V-AMG

I guess back to square one, haha.

I am debating on removing a shim out of mine now just to keep it closer. Hopefully it wont rub. Theoretically, the closer it is the better contact with the clutch and the less strain on the pulley springs.

blackbenzz

certain companies have a history of shoddy products. People just want cheap stuff. You get what you pay for

spawn_x

Thoughts on UPD? Was considering a clutched SC pulley at some point. Read a good amount of negative feedback on larger crank puleys

Ls1toAMG

The pulleys have gotten better. Kleeman crank pulleys are solid. The sc pulleys are pretty much all upd. They have improved the last few years. Problem with this platform is the m113k is rare so few big companies have invested the money it takes to make top notch mods. Most come and go. Upd is pretty good now. When a mod for a rare platform comes out its expensive and unproven to the masses.shorty headers used to be 3k and cracked half the time. Now headers are 500 dollars and are proven.mids anyway.

Zod

Well the issue back in my day, not sure about now is that everyone was running the 180mm + crank pulley from ASP or other wise. While this did produce power it also produced a lot of heat, which affect the back to back runs and showed a dramatic loss of power.

People had to run trunk tanks/ice and meth and just to keep power stable.
My personal opinion is what's the point if it is a daily driver?
you want consistency, not just kill mode one offs.

so lesson is go smaller, but remain consistent and keep heat in check. go with simple bolt ons and enjoy the car. The more you push the modding the more down time and trouble shooting you will be doing in the long run.

You bought the car to enjoy it, not to look at it and pop the hood/ scangauge every so often. learn to silence/ suprese the mod bog from over doing it

My opinion

Elhonaz

Exactly.. never heard of heating up and then adjusting the gap

V-AMG

I spoke to EuroCharged and their input was that my current 4 shims may be too much and that i should be aiming at staying as close as possible without excessive rubbing, but little is ok. I suppose i knew this though.

I cant seem to get a definitive answer as to under which conditions to measure the gap. No directions ever stated measure after its broken in, and no ones ever defined broken in, one heat cycle, 100miles, 1,000 miles, measure cold, hot, etc...

So with all that said, i think that im gonna stop measuring and just add only as many shims are necessary to keep the clutch/pulley from dragging when disengaged and at that point im going it to call it good no matter the gap.

So off i go re-installing this damn pulley for the 3rd time. And who knows if it'll be the final or will it need more adjustment. Dont get me wrong, the power is there and its noticable but really makes me wonder if this is all worth it...

210lvr

I know the feeling. Strap wrench and a 24mm wrench makes quick work of it. I would not want to constantly loosen the engine mounts and removal panels to jack up the engine. I've made an adjustment in literally 5 minutes. Strap wrench, 24mm wrench, 17mm 12pt socket. Done.

latemodel21

Right-angle impact gun is the tool for this job.

Ingersol rand 2015Max has earned its spot in my tool box

Cheers,
Chris

ryanhere

Like mentioned earlier the official gap states 0.35mm to 0.45mm.
But it does not really matter as long its under 0.5mm..... you do not want too much travel for the clutch plate to engage