The "Meth Effect"
11-21-2016, 01:22 PM
#26
Super Member
Excuse the 
but I for one would love to see a thread with this ^^^ theme. I imagine there's more than one member with ideas to take this platform to the next level...
On a more relevant note, I do find a members excitement and associated numbers when installing meth for the first time interesting reading. Thanks for sharing TK.
but I for one would love to see a thread with this ^^^ theme. I imagine there's more than one member with ideas to take this platform to the next level...On a more relevant note, I do find a members excitement and associated numbers when installing meth for the first time interesting reading. Thanks for sharing TK.
11-21-2016, 03:00 PM
#28
MBWorld Fanatic!
Agree on every point.
11-21-2016, 04:58 PM
#29
Super Member
Thread Starter
I do know you have "credentials" on this topic as "ranking mods that reduce IAT's best" thread got commented on and bumped. I knew your handle was familiar. You do have "credentials" on the topic and great results!
As someone else suggested it may be helpful to start a sticky meth thread.
Also, I have learned a bit more on my set-up. From what I gather there are two (2) nozzles:
1) Water/Meth - It's actually turned to the back (towards the Y) and mounted flush.
2) "One for boost reference signal"
A methanol sticky would be great!
11-21-2016, 08:20 PM
#31
Member
My apologies. 1ForcedBenz made the comment you are referencing to me not you. I don't disagree with hist statement and I have no axe to grind so hopefully we can move on on this topic...
I do know you have "credentials" on this topic as "ranking mods that reduce IAT's best" thread got commented on and bumped. I knew your handle was familiar. You do have "credentials" on the topic and great results!
As someone else suggested it may be helpful to start a sticky meth thread.
Also, I have learned a bit more on my set-up. From what I gather there are two (2) nozzles:
1) Water/Meth - It's actually turned to the back (towards the Y) and mounted flush.
2) "One for boost reference signal"
I do know you have "credentials" on this topic as "ranking mods that reduce IAT's best" thread got commented on and bumped. I knew your handle was familiar. You do have "credentials" on the topic and great results!
As someone else suggested it may be helpful to start a sticky meth thread.
Also, I have learned a bit more on my set-up. From what I gather there are two (2) nozzles:
1) Water/Meth - It's actually turned to the back (towards the Y) and mounted flush.
2) "One for boost reference signal"
You have one nozzle mounted on the bottom just after the intercooler right in the center. This is the best position in my opinion as it is as far away from the IAT sensor as possible while still cooling the air charge out of the intercooler.
The other hose is the vacuum signal for the boost referenced switch used to trigger your system.
In the future a very small nozzle injecting after the throttle body into the blower might be a possibility for a 10/10ths type set up.
I agree with the sentiments of blackbenzz in that we are a tuning solution away from seeing real fun with the platform. Not to take anything away from the vendors here but they have to make money and keep cars from blowing up.
That leaves a lot of power on the table and many avenues unexplored due to time and potential high cost of failure. With the affordability of this platform now it will be interesting to see if HPTuners offers a solution for those of us with the M113k platform.
After that would be to get someone to make us cams. We can still do a lot without them but that with tuning would be a game changer for sure!
11-21-2016, 11:32 PM
#32
MBWorld Fanatic!
I really hope they can crack ME2.8 and offer their tuning suite - considering they're now supporting the M156. I have a feeing if it were feasible to support 2.8 they would have started there instead of ME9.7
11-22-2016, 09:17 AM
#34
Super Member
Thread Starter
Guys In the spirit of "pushing the tuners" on this platform let me know if I am barking up the wrong tree...
Jerry (Euro) is supposedly coming to Minneapolis in April and I am in the process of a custom tune...
I will see what I can do with Euro as the guinea pig in terms of pushing the limits with meth and actually "tune for it".
Although I have no interest in blowing my motor I will be willing to sign away any and all liability if the car blows up. Not sure if this will matter as we all know their concerns but I will give it a shot.
I will take any advice on how to approach them or the other tuners (Shardul, Phil at VRP, etc.).
TK
Jerry (Euro) is supposedly coming to Minneapolis in April and I am in the process of a custom tune...
I will see what I can do with Euro as the guinea pig in terms of pushing the limits with meth and actually "tune for it".
Although I have no interest in blowing my motor I will be willing to sign away any and all liability if the car blows up. Not sure if this will matter as we all know their concerns but I will give it a shot.
I will take any advice on how to approach them or the other tuners (Shardul, Phil at VRP, etc.).
TK
11-22-2016, 09:38 AM
#35
Super Member
That's a pretty amazing difference in the temps.
1. What size nozzle are you running after the intercooler? I assume it's one of Devils own.
2. How much boost are you running / what's your pulley combo and is that with headers?
2. How much boost are you running / what's your pulley combo and is that with headers?
Guys,
Meth Injection Installed and the return line was moved to the back of the Engine Bay Tank.
The shop did some runs and got them on video...
Outside Temp - 58 degrees
Pre-Meth Injection:
60-120 pull
IAT Start - 52
IAT Finish - 163
The "Meth Effect":
60-130 pull
IAT Start - 48
IAT Finish - 63
"Meth Effect" much faster but a few variables. Let me know if anyone is interested and I can post the times (60-120 and 60-130)
None of the IAT reduction takes into account the impact of the inlet return line being moved to the back engine bay tank.
Meth Injection Installed and the return line was moved to the back of the Engine Bay Tank.
The shop did some runs and got them on video...
Outside Temp - 58 degrees
Pre-Meth Injection:
60-120 pull
IAT Start - 52
IAT Finish - 163
The "Meth Effect":
60-130 pull
IAT Start - 48
IAT Finish - 63
"Meth Effect" much faster but a few variables. Let me know if anyone is interested and I can post the times (60-120 and 60-130)
None of the IAT reduction takes into account the impact of the inlet return line being moved to the back engine bay tank.
11-22-2016, 09:47 AM
#36
MBWorld Fanatic!
TK if Jerry agrees and that's a big if, you are risking . All it takes it the meth shutting off for whatever reason, and you can go from example 12afr 23* timing to 14-15afr and timing will not have time to back down in time. Be carful what you wish for
11-22-2016, 01:44 PM
#38
Super Member
Thread Starter
168/84 combo. Mods in signature. Video posted in Dropbox.
Last edited by BlackHammer; 11-22-2016 at 01:47 PM.
12-09-2016, 04:55 PM
#39
Member
Anyone know the best nozzle to go with for a 10/90 meth/water mix the kit is a snow performance 300 psi pump, without it bogging not sure if i could use the same 90 and Devils own nozzle as BlackHammer with mine being more water?
12-09-2016, 05:07 PM
#40
Member
johnny b,
Really determined by your mods. I run a 375 ml snow nozzle but my car is completely stock. I run 80 water/ 20 meth mix so a smaller nozzle is indicated due to the high water ratio. More meth needs a larger nozzle. More heat needs a larger nozzle.
Mine is in the y so I can change it without pulling the charger.
BlackHammer is using 50/50 so if you have the same mods and go 90/10 water I would drop down to a #7 Devil's Own or a 625 ml Snow. Both will be very close in size (675 vs 625). The reason he went with Devil's own was he installed the nozzle under the supercharger just after the intercooler. You will need the Devil's Own 90 degree nozzle as the Snow nozzle is too big.
HTH,
Sean
Really determined by your mods. I run a 375 ml snow nozzle but my car is completely stock. I run 80 water/ 20 meth mix so a smaller nozzle is indicated due to the high water ratio. More meth needs a larger nozzle. More heat needs a larger nozzle.
Mine is in the y so I can change it without pulling the charger.
BlackHammer is using 50/50 so if you have the same mods and go 90/10 water I would drop down to a #7 Devil's Own or a 625 ml Snow. Both will be very close in size (675 vs 625). The reason he went with Devil's own was he installed the nozzle under the supercharger just after the intercooler. You will need the Devil's Own 90 degree nozzle as the Snow nozzle is too big.
HTH,
Sean
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johnny_b (12-09-2016)
12-09-2016, 05:35 PM
#41
Member
Ok, the mods I have currently are 83/180 pulleys, mbh headers, 550cc injectors, kc and rear tank, 90mm tb other things are tcu tune, weistec plugs, ndash, Any disadvantages/advantages placing it on the Y pipe of the intercooler seems like a plus? With my current mods should I get the same nozzle in your opinion or still drop down?
Last edited by johnny_b; 12-09-2016 at 05:41 PM.
12-09-2016, 05:43 PM
#42
Member
johnny b,
I went in the cast y because I wanted to see how it worked. Denroll had it there on his car and it seemed to work well. In that position I am fooling the IAT sensor slightly more so than if it is right in front of the intercooler but I really feel that it is minimal. I am also datalogging.
If you do not mind working on the car go for it! If you want to minimize work then follow best practice here which is 90 degree nozzle holder and a number 10 Devil's Own nozzle installed just after the intercooler. I do not think you will need more nozzle than that. With 90/10 you should be fine.
Sean
I went in the cast y because I wanted to see how it worked. Denroll had it there on his car and it seemed to work well. In that position I am fooling the IAT sensor slightly more so than if it is right in front of the intercooler but I really feel that it is minimal. I am also datalogging.
If you do not mind working on the car go for it! If you want to minimize work then follow best practice here which is 90 degree nozzle holder and a number 10 Devil's Own nozzle installed just after the intercooler. I do not think you will need more nozzle than that. With 90/10 you should be fine.
Sean
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BlackHammer (12-12-2016)
12-09-2016, 05:58 PM
#43
Member
Ok i see, I think I will place it under the intercooler then with the 90 and the #10 (630ml) you recommended I just hope there won't be any bogging issues or if they can be adjusted out, Thank you Sean for the help and Tim for the pm!
Last edited by johnny_b; 12-09-2016 at 06:04 PM.
12-09-2016, 06:03 PM
#44
Member
johnny b,
You can adjust both the meth content and the activation point. Less water will need more nozzle. If you are activating using the Stage 1 kit the boost adjustment is on/of. I have mine at 7psi on. You can always either go progressive or have it kick on a little higher.
I would datalog if you can to see what AFR is doing as well as IAT drop. You could use OBD2 software if you look only at two maybe three sensors but you won't get AFR.
BlackHammer and I have LM-2's but Zietronix looks like the goto on here and you can get a trigger box and fine tune the activation point to really anything you want.
I do not see you getting stuck with a number 10 nozzle.
Sean
You can adjust both the meth content and the activation point. Less water will need more nozzle. If you are activating using the Stage 1 kit the boost adjustment is on/of. I have mine at 7psi on. You can always either go progressive or have it kick on a little higher.
I would datalog if you can to see what AFR is doing as well as IAT drop. You could use OBD2 software if you look only at two maybe three sensors but you won't get AFR.
BlackHammer and I have LM-2's but Zietronix looks like the goto on here and you can get a trigger box and fine tune the activation point to really anything you want.
I do not see you getting stuck with a number 10 nozzle.
Sean
12-09-2016, 06:12 PM
#45
MBWorld Fanatic!
Or you could return the kit you got, buy an Aquamist, set it to inject 42% IDC, and adjust the meth to IDC% ratio, and ramp it to alter the system for varying mixtures of water:meth%. This allows a proportional, adjustable, and more optimal, mix of meth mixture and fuel.
Couple that with the fail safes that allow you to disengage the SC clutch should something go wrong with the system and you'll have a reliable setup that doesn't bog and allows you to adjust meth mixture based on what your datalogging and track times shows you as being optimal without changing nozzles provided you install a nozzle that is in the center of the range of amount you want to inject.
Couple that with the fail safes that allow you to disengage the SC clutch should something go wrong with the system and you'll have a reliable setup that doesn't bog and allows you to adjust meth mixture based on what your datalogging and track times shows you as being optimal without changing nozzles provided you install a nozzle that is in the center of the range of amount you want to inject.
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BlackHammer (12-12-2016)
12-09-2016, 06:38 PM
#47
Member
Ill give the Snow P. stage 2 a try with a couple of inline solenoids, if any issues occur with the kit ill switch to the HFS-3 aquamist
Last edited by johnny_b; 12-10-2016 at 12:25 AM.
12-12-2016, 07:22 PM
#48
Super Member
Thread Starter
That is an aggressive pulley combo (I like your style). Have you been logging to date and if so, what kind of IAT's are you seeing? Sorry if I missed this in the post.
Also, attached is an old boost chart that shows guestimated boost based on pulley size for those interested.
Let me know what you see for IAT's with your pulley set-up. Some folks will argue that a bigger crank pulley generates less heat (versus an upgraded smaller S/C pulley).
Hopefully this doesn't take the thread off track. "Bigger" pulley's for boost is an attractive nuisance in many ways. You know you shouldn't go there (or even think about it) but the fun is always looking into the eyes of the sun! Manfred Mann song Blinded by the Light!
Also, attached is an old boost chart that shows guestimated boost based on pulley size for those interested.
Let me know what you see for IAT's with your pulley set-up. Some folks will argue that a bigger crank pulley generates less heat (versus an upgraded smaller S/C pulley).
Hopefully this doesn't take the thread off track. "Bigger" pulley's for boost is an attractive nuisance in many ways. You know you shouldn't go there (or even think about it) but the fun is always looking into the eyes of the sun! Manfred Mann song Blinded by the Light!
