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Kleeman headers. Fabberge mid pipes. True bolt on.
no sense pumping more air in when you can't get it out...
While I don't disagree, I can't do everything at once, and buying more parts to make it so I can do it myself doesn't solve the problem at hand, of cost.
Difference in both sound and throttle response. I did not dyno before and after, so I cannot say with absolute certainty where the car gained power in terms of the curve.
I paid around $600 for my Kleemans on eBay and then about $600 for install at a fab shop and was without the car for a day. This is just my $0.02.
Difference in both sound and throttle response. I did not dyno before and after, so I cannot say with absolute certainty where the car gained power in terms of the curve.
I paid around $600 for my Kleemans on eBay and then about $600 for install at a fab shop and was without the car for a day. This is just my $0.02.
Dyno numbers are the least of my concerns, how it feels when it drives is. So you'd say across the normal everyday driving power band, a worthwhile improvement in performance? Being without a car is no big deal, I have 4, but $600 is a lot for a $600 part when there may be, for example, a $1,200 part that is better than I can install myself.
I did catch onto that after some digging, and I emailed them to find out they will match the price of FTP's, FYI.
Do not go with FTP. Their customer service tremendously sucks and so does their fitment. The exchanger is just too tall for the car.
Originally Posted by EMFAudio
Dyno numbers are the least of my concerns, how it feels when it drives is. So you'd say across the normal everyday driving power band, a worthwhile improvement in performance?
There are plenty of header dyno threads here. They all pick up power across the band and not just at peak rpms.
While I don't disagree, I can't do everything at once, and buying more parts to make it so I can do it myself doesn't solve the problem at hand, of cost.
Kleeman headers are like $600 now I think. The Fabberge mids are I think $400 still? No cost for install as with this it's a bolt on solution you can do yourself without cutting up the stock pieces and ruining them just so welding can be done. My experience with the 77mm is that it wasn't worth it until I did water injection. I guess what I'm trying to say is you'll get noticible throttle response improvement with the added benefit of more power, some cooling improvement and better reliability i terms of having the car perform. The pulley IMO is kind of a waste without all the supporting mods.
regardless you will need a tune with the pulley so that puts you at $1k roughly anyways. I think you will get more bang for the buck with headers IMO. Bang meaning power, sound, cooling and feel as an entire package. I think the 84mm is kind of a waste of money but that's personal opinion. I feel you'll outgrow it really fast where as the header package make the car fun to drive for more reasons than just the new found power.
I ran American Racing Headers with no cats. I installed those at the same time that I removed a 180 Crank pulley. It felt very similar but with no heat soak. Move the headers up to the top of your list. It makes these cars much nicer to drive hard
Dyno numbers are the least of my concerns, how it feels when it drives is. So you'd say across the normal everyday driving power band, a worthwhile improvement in performance?
Have you tried a search? I know I've personally commented on this several times. There's a difference at part throttle when the blower clutch is disengaged. I don't have time to go into it, but try the search for more details.
The pulley IMO is kind of a waste without all the supporting mods.
regardless you will need a tune with the pulley so that puts you at $1k roughly anyways. I think you will get more bang for the buck with headers IMO. Bang meaning power, sound, cooling and feel as an entire package. I think the 84mm is kind of a waste of money but that's personal opinion. I feel you'll outgrow it really fast where as the header package make the car fun to drive for more reasons than just the new found power.
I have nature's cooling mods going for me till March so that's not a big deal. $35 for a retune, already got it. When I say headers are down the list on life, I'm talking about more than the car. I have 4 cars I'm doing stuff to, and other commitments like capital to build my businesses.
Originally Posted by DVC
Have you tried a search? I know I've personally commented on this several times. There's a difference at part throttle when the blower clutch is disengaged. I don't have time to go into it, but try the search for more details.
I haven't done much in searching for headers because I'm not ready for headers, that's not what this is about.
IMO, the perfect setup for a daily driver where ET, MPH, or Dyno numbers aren't important would be these mods, and these mods only:
Bosch -10 pump
H/X
Headers
ECU Tune
That's it. You don't need a BWK, you don't need to split the cooling, going to a larger TB or smaller SC pulley will only introduce driveability issues without giving *that* much seat-of-the-pants improvement.
The only other thing would be to get a set of drag radials once you finally *do* decide to go drag racing. Those will improve your ET's more than anything else.
IMO, the perfect setup for a daily driver where ET, MPH, or Dyno numbers aren't important would be these mods, and these mods only:
Bosch -10 pump
H/X
Headers
ECU Tune
That's it. You don't need a BWK, you don't need to split the cooling, going to a larger TB or smaller SC pulley will only introduce driveability issues without giving *that* much seat-of-the-pants improvement.
The only other thing would be to get a set of drag radials once you finally *do* decide to go drag racing. Those will improve your ET's more than anything else.
I spent about $35 doing split cooling and it was worth every penny. THAT made a difference, AIT's dropped 15 degrees when it was 90+ outside.
You need to look ahead and decide what mods you want in the future.
I run an 84mm with stock cooling. I added shortys and I'm very happy with the way it runs. But when I started I was never considering hitting 10's. I set it up to run mid 11's if I change my pulley and add cooling and then tb. I wanted to keep the stock sound with cats. It's a family car not a muscle car to me.
You need to look ahead and decide what mods you want in the future.
I run an 84mm with stock cooling. I added shortys and I'm very happy with the way it runs. But when I started I was never considering hitting 10's. I set it up to run mid 11's if I change my pulley and add cooling and then tb. I wanted to keep the stock sound with cats. It's a family car not a muscle car to me.
I don't want mine to get real loud. I LOVE it being a sleeper, and being relatively quiet on long highway drives.
I've gone ahead and bought a used 84mm from a member here, making it an even better deal. I'm excited to see the gain and how it drives, I'm less excited about the continued lack of traction with cold tires.
I don't want mine to get real loud. I LOVE it being a sleeper, and being relatively quiet on long highway drives.
I've gone ahead and bought a used 84mm from a member here, making it an even better deal. I'm excited to see the gain and how it drives, I'm less excited about the continued lack of traction with cold tires.
I've already got one, will get it altered for the pulley. The extra boost just might make it completely undriveable with cold tires around here, should be great! I already can't go past tapping the gas around corners without traction control taking over. One day it was so bad, I was merging from a suicide lane, attempted quickly, spun to the point traction control cut the throttle. Michelin Super Sport's suck at 50 degrees or below.
Been reading this thread and I'll tell you this ,these members have benn giving you excellent advice .You can run a 77 pulley (clutched)but the first mod should be headers and I would go for long tubes as this car loves them .
I have many fturns who have mid's and say regret long tubes because the cooling effects are far better and gains are more plus the car feels like a different animal .
It's winter but come spring do spilt ,and h.e for sure but till then you be ok .The t.b doesnt gain 35 whp so you can toss it out the window for them fake numbers ,fault codes amd major hiccups .
Yes ,it will make your whole setup breath more efficent when having the complete bolt ons but not fully needed unless you are chasing every last drop of gains .These cars stock are not to fast but after modded there monsters .Enjoy what ever you decide
Been reading this thread and I'll tell you this ,these members have benn giving you excellent advice .You can run a 77 pulley (clutched)but the first mod should be headers and I would go for long tubes as this car loves them .
I have many fturns who have mid's and say regret long tubes because the cooling effects are far better and gains are more plus the car feels like a different animal .
It's winter but come spring do spilt ,and h.e for sure but till then you be ok .The t.b doesnt gain 35 whp so you can toss it out the window for them fake numbers ,fault codes amd major hiccups .
Yes ,it will make your whole setup breath more efficent when having the complete bolt ons but not fully needed unless you are chasing every last drop of gains .These cars stock are not to fast but after modded there monsters .Enjoy what ever you decide
I actually got a used 84mm and just wrapped up installing it, uploading the videos of how I did it to my computer from phone now so I can put it together and show what I feel to be the best way to do it.
The biggest problem I have with doing long tube headers is NONE of them are reasonably priced. I have a real hard time justifying over double the cost of mid tubes, when it is just a daily driver at the end of the day. I already have split cooling, heat exchanger I'll do before March when it starts warming up.
I actually got a used 84mm and just wrapped up installing it, uploading the videos of how I did it to my computer from phone now so I can put it together and show what I feel to be the best way to do it.
The biggest problem I have with doing long tube headers is NONE of them are reasonably priced. I have a real hard time justifying over double the cost of mid tubes, when it is just a daily driver at the end of the day. I already have split cooling, heat exchanger I'll do before March when it starts warming up.
Shardul got a set on here of long tubes for 1000 bucks That's cheap compared to arh and mbh .as far as long tubes arh makes the best setup fron there collector to runners .
A 77 pulley can get you into the 10's even not tracking it's a nice feeling that you got a 10 sec poteinal setup and possibly will go with the rest of the mods .I'll tell yout the hit from the 77 is volient
I would look into these long tubes I mentioned cause you'll regret in the end .Long tubes arw good for 25 hp more then mods so don't belive thr hype thst mods are near the gains cause theRe not .
Look at the fastest setups and show me them using mid's ??.also note installing headers is not a fan task and if yoir not doing it yourself be ready to pay a nice chunk so this what I mean by choosing the correct set .At times cheap is expensive my friend
Last edited by oneslow55; Dec 15, 2016 at 09:43 PM.
Shardul got a set on here of long tubes for 1000 bucks That's cheap compared to arh and mbh .as far as long tubes arh makes the best setup fron there collector to runners .
A 77 pulley can get you into the 10's even not tracking it's a nice feeling that you got a 10 sec poteinal setup and possibly will go with the rest of the mods .I'll tell yout the hit from the 77 is volient
I would look into these long tubes I mentioned cause you'll regret in the end .Long tubes arw good for 25 hp more then mods so don't belive thr hype thst mods are near the gains cause theRe not .
Look at the fastest setups and show me them using mid's ??.also note installing headers is not a fan task and if yoir not doing it yourself be ready to pay a nice chunk so this what I mean by choosing the correct set .At times cheap is expensive my friend
I would definitely be installing them myself. I can't stress enough I'm not after shaving tenths off 1/4 mile times or how fast it goes in a circle. So, all that being said, I ask you this. Those long tubes are $1,000, others are $2,000+. Why are they priced so differently? I ask because I'm looking at replacing headers on my CRX because the ones I've had on there for years are aweful and leak and very loud. They too were a fraction of other headers.
Question is will I need to purchase a smaller size belt or it uses the same super charge belt
The 84mm and 77mm still uses the OEM size belt when installed. A 77mm is 13mm smaller dia. than OEM but since belt wraps less than 50% around it, your belt size changes nominally and the tensioner takes up the amount. Belt Wrap kit is worth adding to all oem or aftermarket pulley`s.
I ran long tubes, race cats and left my stock mufflers on. Car was quiet at cruise and a beast at wot! LT `s dropped IATs a lot, like 20 deg. as I recall and big power gains.
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E63 Biturbo, UPD Cold Air induction kit, UPD performance crank pulley and UPD adjustable rear suspension with ride height adjustment.
The 84mm and 77mm still uses the OEM size belt when installed. A 77mm is 13mm smaller dia. than OEM but since belt wraps less than 50% around it, your belt size changes nominally and the tensioner takes up the amount. Belt Wrap kit is worth adding to all oem or aftermarket pulley`s.
I ran long tubes, race cats and left my stock mufflers on. Car was quiet at cruise and a beast at wot! LT `s dropped IATs a lot, like 20 deg. as I recall and big power gains.
I have to agree, a belt wrap kit is definitely worth adding - in my case for a 80mm FSP. Installed the UPD kit (nice quality!) over the weekend and 'whoa'....noticeable difference throughout the power band. Special thanks to Exotic-metal55 for hooking me up with the hardware!
Thanks for the info. I am working on putting her back on the road. I picked up the 211 about a month ago with 77mm. Getting ideas on what to buy so I can replace the dual pulley. The inner one shredded into dust. Glad it made home but I am currently trying to reverse-engineer the parts that were put in here. I might replace the water pump while I am at it. it has 67K miles atm The project begins Any suggestions on what manufacturer is solid
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