Cerberus

I have been considering buying an E55K to replace my E39 M5 for a long time now and have finally made the decision to go for it. The main reasons I have held off for so long, was the fear of losing handling dynamics, braking feel and overall driver involvement versus the M5. I have read many magazine articles detailing these shortcomings, especially in regards to the disconnected feel of the electronic braking system. Are these comments true or exaggerated? I love my M5 in that it offers near sports car performance with the utility and comfort of a luxury four-door sedan.

However, the stunning acceleration of the E55K has always appealed to me in a big way and with the recent sale of my 996 turbo, I have the need for SPEED that my M5 no longer can satisfy.

It would be great to get some feedback from you guys in regards to my concerns, especially from members who replaced their M5s with the E55K. I also have some questions that I would appreciate your help with:

1. Are there any differences between the 2003 and 2004 cars?

2. Does the panorama roof have any drawbacks besides weight? Does it look odd on a silver car? Does it hurt or improve resale value?

3. How long would it take to order and receive 2005 model? Is it worth order and waiting for a 2005 or finding an existing inventory 2004 from an economic standpoint?

4. Do you think the introduction of 6.3 NA motor in 2006 will hurt the resale value of the supercharged models?

5. Is it worth looking for a used 2003 versus buying new? It doesn’t seem like the savings would be substantial, since it appears used E55s are holding their value well or are the asking prices on the Internet unrealistic?

I appreciate any advice you guys can give me. Thanks in advance.

krispykrme

coming from a 2003 M5. I really would suggest you to find someone with an E55 and drive it for couple days. M5 and E55 are two different beast. You will miss the dynamic that M5 offers.

E55 has excellent power. The power makes M5 feel like a dwarf. However, other than the power and excellent interior. I really did not find E55 to be a better car than M5. I actually miss the M5's dynamics.

Drive E55 for couple days, you will find plenty of draw back in the car. The car is too heavy. Brake and steering feed back is just odd.

I don't want to go any deeper than this. Otherwise, I will touch off another M5 vs E55 war.

amg55

1. '03 and '04 are almost identical. Options packaging was different (seats and lights). All performance elements were the same.
2. Pano roof detracts from appearance of light colored cars IMO as the entire roof is black from front window to rear. Resale? No effect worth sweating over on an $80K car.
3. '05's can be had by end of summer if you look around (assuming production rolls out as advertised).
4. Every change in the E55 will hurt resale as it evolves. DO NOT buy an E55 as an 'investment'. When a highly anticipated model like the w211 E55 rolls out it holds value for awhile. But as new competition arrives and the body style ages and the engine is upgraded value retention will slip faster and faster. Look at what happened with the '01 and '02 E55's. That will be the same scenario with the E55 as it hits '07.
5. Get the best balance of price and low miles you can find, whether that's new at $1K off MSRP or '03 with low miles at $7-8K off original price.

amg55

Also, (in response to krispykrme's comments) I am a very satisfied E55 owner, but would not recommend this car for everyone. I completely agree with his basic comments that compared with any 996 or recent M5 the E55 feels fat and sluggish when it comes to handling.
Understand what you like about your cars.
Then buy the car that best suits your taste.
If you really love a tight handling car that can be tossed around with confidence and exhilaration at speed, do not buy the E55.
That's not it's long suit.
If acceleration, luxury, space and value are tops on your priority list, the E55 should be a priority consideration.

Cerberus

krispykrme and AMG55,

Thanks for your feedback. I definitely don't want to start a war between the M5 and E55 camps. I just want opinions to help me make the right decision.

I want a luxury sport sedan that offers a perfect blend of powerful acceleration, handling and braking dynamics. I will use the car primarily for commuting, but I love to attack the twisties any chance I have. Unfortunately, most of these twisties are in the suburbs

Handling dynamics is a performance aspect I find very important, since I also like to attend the occasional track event/driving schools. Are there any aftermarket tuners who have addressed the E55's handling shortcomings by offering wider wheels/tires, sport springs, struts, sway bars and etc?

However, I also find the E55's accelerative ability addictive as well. I drove a friend's E55 a couple of times and it was very fast on the Interstate. In fact, I wouldn't doubt that it could keep up with my 996 turbo I sold from a roll. I LOVE BOOST!!


Thanks again for your input.

norb

Re: the handling, yada yada yada, but I find the brakes just as good if not better than my 03 M3.

Cerberus

Are you not experiencing the disconnected and nonlinear feel the automotive press have published? Before I read the test reports, I would have assumed the E55 had tremendous braking ability by the look of those massive 8 piston front calipers. It would be great if you could elaborate more about the brakes in comparison to your M3. I would assume the M3's braking performance is better than the M5's due to 500 pounds less weight. Thanks.

jkrutch

The brakes are fine, but the handling is non-existent. I have a 2002 996 Turbo and the difference in handling is tremendous. The car feels like a whale in comparison. The interior and acceleration are spectacular as is the level of refinement, but if you're looking to throw this car into a turn with any speed, you will be majorly disappointed. The massive weight causes huge understeer. The nimble feeling of the Porsche isn't here. I am hoping the new M5 will deliver the "best of both worlds".

ColorChange

Like everyone else, if you really want handling, you're at the wrong place wiht an E55. If you want handling and power, you need a Porsche TT. If you want a powerful and luxurious 4-door, E55. Simple choice. M5 falls behind both in their respective strengths.

krispykrme

the brake itself is great. The problem is with brake pedal response is very very unlinear. It's either no brake or panic stop. Very very touchy and hard to modulate. The E500 on the other hand does not have this problem.

I am not the only one here with the unlinear response problem. Pretty much everyone that has driven the E55 will have this complaint. Some just choose to ignore it.

CynCarvin32

And lets start by saying yes the E55 has more "stopping power" (something you notice when slowing from 130 but which is not so noticable at 75) and they brakes fade less quickly than the E500. But after that point, the E500 does feel 100 times better. You have a much more firm peddle, the car slows when you press on the brake initially and you can actually make the car stop smoothly when you need to slow the car quickly. The brakes on the E55 look the part but something gets lost in the translation I think. Almost every road test shows the E55 taking longer to stop than a E500 with ZR rated tires. Believe me, I am as confused by this as everyone else but I can only say what I have seen on both cars.

As for the M3's brakes, the M3 has some of the best peddle feel in its class. Such a fine braking system that I wonder how BMW gets slider brake calipers to work so well. With small rotors and whippy twin piston slider brake calipers the M3 slows faster than a C32, C55, CLK55, E55, and S55 (all which have massive fixed type brembo made brake calipers and OEM style rotors). The M3 stops so well I often look for a difference in the cars that could cause this. The M3 only uses 225/255 (19 inch wheel pack) tires and this is about the same as a C32/CLK55/C55). Where does the magic come from! I want some! Less mass? The M3 is not that light! Who knows....

But after saying how wonderful the M3 brakes are, there is a catch. They warp like crazy when driven hard for an extended period of time. If you do this a Brembo BBK from Race Technology would be a wise investment. Then again you could always just opt for a set of Euro spec drilled rotors (floating rotors too) and euro pads and see how this does for your driving style.

No car is perfect!

krispykrme

well said. my point exactly.

I simply just do not understand why the E55's brake feel is just so odd ball.

stephens

The E55 is not much heavier than the M5, most of it is actually perception. One thing I notice swapping between the Ferrari 550 and the E55 is how heavy the steering is on the E55. You really have to give the wheel an almighty tug comparatively to get the car to turn quickly. The handling itself is not that bad and lowering and increased tye size, more commensurate with the cars size helps a great deal as well. The E55 is designed foremost as an ICBM (Inter Continental Ballistic Missile) not a canyon racer.
I don't know about US product spec, but the Aust spec brake/pad combo has no complaints from me.

norb

Hey maybe my E55 is an anomoly but the brakes are linear and very easy to modulate, not the off on switch some have described. Of course my mind wasn't obscured by reading an auto test magazine like some people on this forum.

As far as the E500 outperforming the E55 in distance, I'd like to see this substantiated. Cause in the Road and Track M5/RS6/S-Type/E55 comparison, all the cars were well within a few feet of each other in all the brake tests.

Compared to the M3, the pedal feel on the M3 was way to light, over boosted even, I guess it went with the light feeling of the rest of the car. Steering is light and plenty of roll in the corners. Of course it has a subte and compliant ride.

CynCarvin32

I remember autoweek saying the car took longer to stop than the E500 and I remeber the same quote from a second source.

Same goes for the SL55 and teh SL500....the 500 stops shorter and has better feel -- but it does fade more and is less powerful when slowing from say 140 mph.

To say that we are feeling funny things because we read a magazine is fallacious reasoning if you ask me. I am wise enough to make my own conculsions about cars I drive and often think magazines are full of monkeyspunk on their reviews. I never could understand why people can not openly talk about a car without insulting fellow owners. Its a car...it has flaws...when we discuss these issues things get solved. Why sit back and accept what exists when you can demand more (ie better)?

E55 is a good car (worth all the extra $$ over a C32) but as i will say again and again it is NOT flawless.

krispykrme

I have come to the conclusion that some people's body must be wired differently.

As a ex-m3 owner myself. The M3 steering response althoug a little too light, it's not over boost by any margin. However, the M3's steering response was linear so are the brake pedal response. For a year of owning that M3, my M3 never demonstrate plenty of body roll as some one claim to have here. In fact with the factory 19" the M3 has probably the least body roll of the car i have owned thus far.

E55's steering is not that heavy. However, my complaints were not heaviness of the steering response. My complaints were directed that E55 steering response can shift from heavy to almost feather light instaneously. Just not linear as I have expect a normal car would do. I can tolerate soft steering as long as its soft all the way or heavy all the way.

BMW's AFS does not have the same problem as i experienced in the E55. BMW's final product does not exhibit the instaneous change like mercedes does.

Someone can claim all they want about reading magazine. I guess he must have superman ability because his feeling must be correct for all man kind. I guess everyone that has different sense must then be excuted. Perhaps all magazine editors are idiots and owner like me are biased.

THAT'S WHY I HATE DISCUSSING E55 vs M5. Because certain individuals believe they are god and their car can do no wrong.

CynCarvin32

Well put...agree with every sentence!

We are not crazy! We just expect more than others.

I always had this issue when the M3 vs. C32 discussions began. I drive both the AMG and OEM versions of the W211 on a daily basis and I only speak the truth so I guess I am biased too!

norb

I take exeption to a certain someone who only comes here to bash the E55. It get old and tired. Jan/05 can't come soon enough so we can rid ourselves of this certain poster.

As for Canyoncarver, how does saying that my brakes are 100% in great working order putting down another car? A little defensive there aren't you? ON this thread, where did I put down anther car?

You two mal-contents can bash the E55 all you want as I can defend it all I want. After all this is an E55 forum! Hello!

krispykrme

we have just now proved that superman is blind.

yes, we only come to E55 forum to bash E55. Last time I check this is a free country and this is a free forum.

i just took exception to certain individual think he is god of E55 forum. His comments and senses are above everyone else. His sense is the absolute standard that everyone need to follow. Everyone that has different comment or sense must be reading a damn magazine.

I still would like someone to show me a proof that I am basing my comment alone on the magazine. Until then, i can said what I know is truth about my car.

norb

OMG do you realize that you're as blind as you claim me to be? Geez get a grip.

What are you going to do next? Post your phone number and try and pick a fight? Or maybe cry about your wife being over bearing and made you buy a car you don't like? Or try and show your bravado and say you're going to buy 2 M5s? Get real dude.

krispykrme

at least, I won't make idiotic claim.

like i said, prove your comment. Show me the proof that I am basing my complaint on E55 from magazine.

Last time I check, you were the 1st one to bring up road track to justify your comment.

I STAND BY MY COMMENT. SHOW SOME CLASS AND STAND UP FOR YOURS!

Other wise you are no better than kain. PERIOD!

stephens

Guys
Why is it not possible to sensibly discuss this issue? Everybody chill out please.

IMO there is nothing wrong with the E55 brakes, sure they could be improved, but they are not its achilles heel. The steering is what really lets the car down. After swapping between Gallardo, 550 and E55, it is the ONE area that the E55 is inferior to the other cars in street driving, but unfortunately it is inferior by a big margin.

krispykrme

i am trying to be sensible as i could. But every time i post a comment about my complaints about the E55. I get the reading magazine response.

I stated very clearly in my original post. There is nothing wrong with the E55 brake. In fact ther performance is good. I had problem with brake pedal response and still having the same problem. Same holds true for the steering response.

I am trying to be sensible here. But god comes in every time and come up with the magazine bs. I am trying to say what i know about my car truthfully.

I just don't understand superman/god here would react to every truthful comment as bash on E55. That i have problem with.

norb

Stand up for mine? Thats what I'm doing and you come out and bash me? Dude we all know you hate your freaking E55, so let go, we all make mistakes, why keep harping about it? You seem to only post negatively. Its tired and old.

Do something mate, don't let if fester. Get another E55 if you think your brakes aren't working properly, we all know your some rich dude anyways (can afford 2 M5s). Lots of people have already posted that there is nothing wrong with the brakes, maybe your is not working to specs? Take it to your dealer, doesn't he owe you or something secret like that?

norb

Stephen, I guess I started the whole thing because I said the brakes on my E55 are just as good as the ones on the M3, I knew that would get kk's goat, as he can't stand anything said bad about his beloved marque. Typical. Canyoncraver is falling in the same mode also.