MACEDON

Back story:
Installed headers at a shop
Installed updated tune from EC for the headers
Got the codes P2096 and 98
Downpipe flange nuts came off mid test drive
Re installed with new aluminum gaskets
Get codes again

I sent an email to EC about it today and got this response:


"At this point I can only suggest to get the car to our Orlando location so it can be fixed by a proper mechanic.

100% there is unmetered air in the system and your current mechanic cannot locate it.

Also, these codes mean that the Long Term Fuel Trims are exceeding +25% for an extended amount of time. The acceptable range is +- 6%. Once the ECU detects +25% for a certain time it will trip the light. This is very alarming and the issue needs to be resolved before you damage the engine."






Obviously this is very alarming to me.

Where could this leak be coming from?

If it's not a leak, what is it?

oneslow55

This th 3 rd time you asked about this and many have you why including me ..I have a set of special custom fixes that will delete those codes if you want them ,pm me for them

MACEDON

Is this a normal problem for everyone with the headers, or just me?

Why is Jerry saying what he's saying then? Because his email got me worried, given that their company is held to high regard on these forums.

Is it that their tune is bad or is it that my car is at fault here...

oneslow55

I gave you a option for a fix , its in your system and setup overall .good luck chasing a gremlin

MACEDON

I'm confused...



At this point I might just install the previous tune without the update for the headers and I want to see if the CEL's will pop up again...

tw2

Is this just from having no cat's with the stock o2 sensors or from having the huge exhaust leak when the nuts fell off? I can't imagine where you could get an intake leak suddenly when installing headers to give you excessive unmetered air.

SICAMG

Is it normal...No.
Why is Jerry saying that? Because he believes he knows where the problem lies,and want's to correct it.
Is the tune bad? I highly doubt it.

Did oneslow offer a solution? Yes!

kenneyd

I installed the same headers with an EC tune and everything was fine for a week, then the flange bolts came lose and blew out the gaskets, got the code, i believe the same as yours.
I reinstalled new gaskets and used lock washers.
I cleared the code and it has not come back.

I suspect the bolts have come lose again or you still have a leak elsewhere, such as at the heads or welds.

Put it on a lift and start the car, feel for leaks.

MACEDON

Grrrrr that's what I'm thinking too...

okay what washers did you use

what nuts

and what gaskets

I took it to a shop to get aluminum 2.5 inch autozone bought gaskets installed, and I asked him if he can use the gasket maker I bought, the guy said it's not necessary...

So I think that **** is definitely coming loose again.

On top of everything i have polyurethane mounts, they are vibrating the **** out of my pipes.

tw2

I have used nordlock washers before, definitely didn't come undone. It probably doesn't matter too much what the nuts and bolts are but high tensile mild steel are usually best.

oneslow55

This why you don't run soild mounts in a luxury car it's not a race car and these illl effects will be invited !

kenneyd

Id have to look at the part numbers when i get home, but i just got the standards organic ones whatever material that is.
I have a lot of bolts, and used a common spring loaded washer, which did loosen a bit last time i was under the car. Nylon lock nuts wont work with the heat, but there are some aviation grade lock nuts i will try next.

I really think the quality of the EC headers is overall, crap. I wouldn't be surprised to find the flanges are bent. RTV sealant is messy and would only work temporally before it blows out.

MACEDON

My biggest worry is that I messed up my flanges... because initially when I picked up my car from the header install I went home and installed my header updated tune and hit the road.

On the way to the highway I got a CEL... erased it and kept going. Got to the highway and tested the car HARD. When I got off the highway I heard a loud noise every time I revved it... so the EC hardware was not adequate unfortunately.

So I drove the car home for an hour with no nuts on the bolts... and I wonder what that did to the mating surface... next day patched the damage up with Home Depot tension nuts and lock washers, and then I had the aluminum gaskets put in...

So I'm not so sure if the aluminum gaskets are the solution, maybe I'll try to paper ones or whatever. I want to order a bag of nordlock washers, but I'm so tired of spending money on this exhaust.

I definitely hear ticking when I drive it with the window open, I think the leak is most pronounced during a cold start.

oneslow55

.lol

tw2

I would get new gaskets, a locking nut system and see what happens. I don't think it could get hot enough to warp significantly. Of course it may not have been truly sealing from the beginning.

Not so good to hear about the header quality. Nordlock is good, there is also a nut with a small spline in between the threads, two splines per nut, I can't remember what they are called but also a good high temp locknut solution.
Maybe not post if you no longer have anything constructive to add.

oneslow55

Your talking to a wall with that dude .i gave options and 3 others did too and he keeps asking what to do .Im done now

MACEDON

I believe the problem is still in the downpipe flange, I will install different gaskets.

Oneslow's solutions were: code out the sensors once there is definitely no leak, or install some high flow cat he wants to sell me. I agree with his solutions, they're great solutions.

Too late, done deal. The mounts are great otherwise, once they warm up you can't tell they're there. I would recommend them, they made my car feel a lot tighter. Very happy with my purchase. Though I had very old mounts beforehand so I never got a chance to truly compare, I love the mounts and they only vibrate the car after a cold start.

The headers themselves I'm sure are fine. The nuts and bolts they came with for the downpipe are not. I will try different gaskets and better nuts and bolts like we discussed. Hopefully this takes care of the issue, if not I will simply code out the sensors and move on with my life, I can live with the ticking noise I guess.

Sorry you feel that way, I'm not rejecting your advice at all, and thank you for your input. You posted in my previous thread about it, and I agree that if there is definitely no leak that I should simply code out the lean condition error. I have bigger pipes, modded ecu, so even if there is no leak (there is) the sensor which is 12 years old might be reading wrong- and for that I gotta code it out. That will be the last thing I will do after I am sure it's sorted out.

I believe I'm still leaking from the flanges, I just haven't had the opportunity to sort it out because of the hurricane that came through last week... Jerry said what he said because he thought about it from every angle. I think t's definitely at the flange because of the timeline of the events that it happened. I first got the CEL right before my nut losing incident on the highway, the root of all evil are those two flanges. Again, I hope the mating surfaces were not damaged by the vibration.

Could it have been prevented? Maybe! The mechanic who installed the hardware, in hindsight, should have used washers, or thread locker, or different hardware, or maybe if I didn't have poly mounts it would have never happened. I don't blame my mechanic, he does an excellent job. In fact it could have been his exhaust guy who didn't tighten everything up down there, it happens, no big deal. It's pointless to speculate and shift blame.

There are a few variables that could be the cause of the issue, I'm not pointing any fingers at all. This is ultimately my fault for modifying the car. I knew what I was getting into when I bought the vehicle.


I would like to thank you all for your posts, I will investigate the flange when I have time, this past week (hurricane irma) and the upcoming 3 weeks (going out of the country)

new55

it would seem to point back to either a flange leak or the headers arent secured tight and one (or more) of the little oval port gaskets are leaking/missing. to look for a leak you may be able to disconnect the radiator fan plug and get some incense/punks and use them to see where the smoke gets blown away - i am sure there are better ways but this is easy - also a flex pipe may be in your future to eliminate some stress on the flange connections - keep us posted - i will be putting a set on soon - curious if the power gain is worth the trouble ?

MACEDON

My fear is that it's on the actual heads... that's what I was trying to avoid by having a shop do the install. Don't want to unbutton all the stuff to re torque everything.

The power gain is nice, I had to do it because I had nasty leaks from the stock set up already, the previous owner did a very ugly cat delete so I had to get the whole mid section replaced.

I actually do have a flex pipe... so I bought a pipe that ended up being too long, took it to the shop, and they installed it behind the supports see pic. I did it after the new pipes were installed and the bungs for the o2 sensors were already in place. Long story short the flex is almost rendered useless. But it is there, and maybe it helps a bit to diffuse vibration between the front and back somewhat. I wasn't notified until it was already installed, too late now.

EDIT: The flex pipe actually does work as it is, I moved around the pipe when it was disconnected from the collector flange and those supports you see are actually flexible. So it does cut vibration to the back somewhat which is all I needed.

MACEDON

If I were to do this all over again I would've just waited it out and bout MBH long tubes with the mid section so it's plug and play. Cheap and AMG don't mix well.

oneslow55

You have to at times re tq to specs on the top area .Kinda of a shame adding Kinked up bends in that manner as you did your not getting full potienal out of it ..Was never a fan of mbh as far as there style and price point .Arh makes a more advanced style long tube with better flow and velocity.Also never liked flex joints as they fail and leaks get hidden in size the flex material and you can chase a leak for ever and never find it !

drothgeb

Did you ever get this resolved? I currently have the same issue with headers and an EC tune.... But my rear O2s are just zip tied up, and my car running pig rich. Jerry said they are "commanding" 11.7 and it must be a hardware thing.

BC928

MACEDON

I installed these gaskets between the collector flange and the rest of the pipes:

(Earl's collector gaskets, compressible graphite in the middle) https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ear-29d15zerl

and I used these bolts:
Tightened the **** out of that flange, and then i did this:

RESET ECU BY UNPLUGGING MAIN BATTERY FOR 30MIN

and those errors never came back. I basically had to reset the fuel trims by resetting the ECU. That's all.

So you might want to plug your sensors back in and try that or get them disabled with STAR. I almost gave up and disabled them but it turns out they're not the problem at all, just the values they were adding on to that were stored were completely out of whack because I gues they had never been reset to adapt to the new flow. I have no cats on top of it all.

1) Eat a bag of ****
2) It was a temporary solution because no car parts store carries anything serious

E55amg0220

i have installed new gaskets verified that my ltft and stft were in perfect spec and cant find any leaks in exhaust an all new gaskets the nuts are tight. My afr is 14.2 to 14.9 at idle n cruise and 11.4 wot so all that is good. I tried spacers as well but never thought of unplugging to reset my ecu so gunna give that a shot. Cause it makes no sense cus i have new cats new 02s so should be ok