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Great looking car, looks like it has extensive mods, I hope you get it sorted. I haven't noticed that intake before. When things are fixed and working I would weld up a new T-piece going to the throttle body, I suspect there is poor flow with that 90 degree design. Something more like https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/M5gAA...pXR/s-l640.jpg
Here's the front of the pulley they used it has a key way it looks like they dremeled the crank snout to fit this keyway. Oem cranks don't come with the keyway extended out to the end from what I've seen. The poor pin designed also didn't help much. Alot went wrong here
unnecessarily...
Use the Weistec kit. It is not made to use for stock type pulleys but you can make it work. In my opinion Weistec's kit is set up as one of the best out there "if" you manipulate it a little to work with a pulley other than theirs.
I made a sleeve to fit inside the guide tool they give you and you can drill out the pulley with no problem "off" the car after you do the crank drilling.
Do not use loctite on the threads. This is my own opinion on this and the reason is after seeing it many times with many different "bolt" situations is as you are torquing the bolt down the heat /friction build up is causing the bolt/loctite to lock into the threads and WILL give you a false torque reading. You may see 230lb's on the Wrench but it is really just locking into the threads.
I also drilled a hole through the head of the bolt and safety wired it to the dampener so the bolt can NEVER come loose UNLESS it actually breaks the wire free.....very unlikely.
This is what the pulley will look like when done. Two extra pins on each side for a total of three.For some reason I can't get the picture of the tool kit loaded on.
And yes the picture on post 28 ....that extended key way is all that supports the two extra pin keys. Again.... and just my opinion it is useless. All the load is still on that one key.
With that being said yes the key way on a crank does help to keep the crank in place but it really is the torque of the bolt that keeps it in place. Call Kleeman,Weistec or anyone else with a brain and they will tell you this.
Use the Weistec kit. It is not made to use for stock type pulleys but you can make it work. In my opinion Weistec's kit is set up as one of the best out there "if" you manipulate it a little to work with a pulley other than theirs.
I made a sleeve to fit inside the guide tool they give you and you can drill out the pulley with no problem "off" the car after you do the crank drilling.
Do not use loctite on the threads. This is my own opinion on this and the reason is after seeing it many times with many different "bolt" situations is as you are torquing the bolt down the heat /friction build up is causing the bolt/loctite to lock into the threads and WILL give you a false torque reading. You may see 230lb's on the Wrench but it is really just locking into the threads.
I also drilled a hole through the head of the bolt and safety wired it to the dampener so the bolt can NEVER come loose UNLESS it actually breaks the wire free.....very unlikely.
This is what the pulley will look like when done. Two extra pins on each side for a total of three.For some reason I can't get the picture of the tool kit loaded on.
And yes the picture on post 28 ....that extended key way is all that supports the two extra pin keys. Again.... and just my opinion it is useless. All the load is still on that one key.
With that being said yes the key way on a crank does help to keep the crank in place but it really is the torque of the bolt that keeps it in place. Call Kleeman,Weistec or anyone else with a brain and they will tell you this.
Thats the the way to do it ,ARP gives you thread lube so you get the correct torque reading,I was also told a few times that that little bit of stock keyway just indexes the stock balancer ,it’s the clamping force of the bolt that holds the balancer in place ,I elongated my keyway and pinned mine @280 ft lbs ARP BOLT just to be safe ,Saftey wire idea is awesome
Made a tool to hold the pulley to tq the bolt down. I had ordered a weistec crank pin kit last week and was going to return it since its just designed to pin the crank snout might be my only option now.
Now that's a tool !!!! Just what I did !! Most people think that the flex plate holding tool will work. NOOOOOOO !!! All the force needs to be on the pulley only. Like cnterline said, 280 lb's on a ARP bolt ..if you are using that, is a MASSIVE torque number to a bolt and requires some serious muscle to pull that wrench in a SMOOTH pull,not a jerky motion to give you a correct reading. Bottom line is a pulley should NEVER just fall off for no reason !!!
Hope you get it all back up and running and I like the way you fab up your holding tool. Here is a other option if you can't find a Crank pin kit. I have used this one on my Hellcat and it work pretty good. Keep us posted. https://www.highhorseperformance.com...hp62pinkit.htm
Hope you get it all back up and running and I like the way you fab up your holding tool. Here is a other option if you can't find a Crank pin kit. I have used this one on my Hellcat and it work pretty good. Keep us posted. https://www.highhorseperformance.com...hp62pinkit.htm
The tool was easy to make and the pipe is about three feet long. With another set of hands should be plenty to hold the pulley. Thanks for the heads up on that pin kit, Another great option. I'm pretty sure the weistec pin kit I got should work. I'm going to used the sleeve from the after market pulley and insert it into the oem one, that should make a flat surface to keep the bit going in straight. It's the perfect size to fill the gap from the end of the crank snout.
Viper that kit looks great. Only one pin but perfect still.
Sicamg
Good eye on seeing that. You are right the kit only has one pin, but it is said to be more than enough. The Hellcat blower is made by the same company that made the E55 blower IHI and it's a bigger blower and spins at a higher RPM. The Hellcat crank is also not pinned from the factory. To be honest the early 15's did have some issue with pulley spinning on the crank but SRT said there were a few that were not torque right from the factory. Most guys are running over 20+ LBS with just the one pin and I have not seen any issue so far.
I used this tool and made a simple holder to keep it parallel. Worked perfect. 150lbs and then 90 was unbelievable. I had a breaker bar and 4 foot pipe and freaked out the entire time. Worked perfect though.
Well I got the pulley on this evening with the help of my brother. Attempted to pin the crank but realised I wasn't going to be able to get it done and be happy with it with what we had to work with.
I can say without a doubt I have never had a bolt that hard to tighten. Without the tool I made no way your ever going to go the additional 90 degrees. I can't imagine putting that much force on the crank and just having a torque converter bolt to hold it from spinning.
I had to take turns with my brother who is a bigger guy than me to get it to the 90 degrees. We used a piece of pipe on the biggest breaker bar we had. My brother works with heavy equipment and has a tq wrench that goes passed 250ft pounds. I can say the factory oem bolt after doing the 90 degrees is on there tighter than 250 ft/lbs.
I should have the car back together I'm the coming days. I'm going to put a mark on the crank pulley to reference the bolt and make sure it's not backing out.
I can say I tried my best, I staying optimistic in that the bolt is on tight like a mother..... And no way it can possibly come out on it's on.
I hope in my case I can prove proper install is key after two professional shops couldn't get it right.
And that's why the pulley comes off due to a loose bolt. How many guy's are actually tightening these bolt's and getting to the point of saying...
WOW ! I think that's good enough, seem's tight enough to me !!!!
And that's why the pulley comes off due to a loose bolt. How many guy's are actually tightening these bolt's and getting to the point of saying...
WOW ! I think that's good enough, seem's tight enough to me !!!!
Well you know what......it's not !!!!!
Well I used the proper holding tool and went a little passed the 90 degrees so not sure how it could of got any tighter...
Well I used the proper holding tool and went a little passed the 90 degrees so not sure how it could of got any tighter...
He's not knocking you, he's sayin, you were amazed at how tight it has to be, and that's why they don't last. People start to tighten them, get to the point of "holy **** this thing is tight and I haven't even reached 90 degrees yet", so they stop there. Then it loosens up because it's under-torqued.
You did it right, you should be fine.
People don't understand, the torque + angle thing is to stretch the bolt into pre-load, so the bolt is in an elastic state and keeping good tension on even when shocked or with temperature changes and what have you. If you don't get it into the proper stretch range (engineers give that degree reading, it's not a guess), it's not clamping like designed and can fail to hold under some conditions.
He's not knocking you, he's sayin, you were amazed at how tight it has to be, and that's why they don't last. People start to tighten them, get to the point of "holy **** this thing is tight and I haven't even reached 90 degrees yet", so they stop there. Then it loosens up because it's under-torqued.
You did it right, you should be fine.
People don't understand, the torque + angle thing is to stretch the bolt into pre-load, so the bolt is in an elastic state and keeping good tension on even when shocked or with temperature changes and what have you. If you don't get it into the proper stretch range (engineers give that degree reading, it's not a guess), it's not clamping like designed and can fail to hold under some conditions.
Ah gotcha, thanks. Ya I can't imagine doing this without taking the enitire front end off either. Getting to 90 degrees by pulling the breaker bar leaning over the car would be very hard. We had to pretty much preform a deadlift on the bar to complete the 90 degree.
For anyone else that does this torque it first and then use a paint pen or fingernail polish to mark the bolt horizontally.
Then you will will be absolutely sure that you go past 90 when the line is straight up.
The engine can turn so not just that, but mark the bolt vs the pulley either 90 off and when the marks line up they are on, or a straight line and when it's gone 90 you are good. I mark just the bolt head if it's like a head bolt or something that the surrounding material can't move, for example on the 274 the bolts are 22nm then 3x90 degree. So I mark them all in one direction, do my pattern turn 90, they are all going across. Next pattern, all going back in line again. Keeps it visually easy to remember and adds a nice double-check step that they are all in and torqued right.
Got the car all back together and running. Put around 30 miles on it and seems to still be good. I haven't been too hard on it but did a couple good pulls. Man it's a beast!!!!!
Heres some video of the pulley, I don't notice any woble looks pretty straight. I have a new belt coming.
https://youtu.be/qSCQAu9j05s
06-23-2018, 03:06 PM
