No Start, crank stuck going clockwise but can rotate other way slightly???
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 369
Likes: 53
07' E63
No Start, crank stuck going clockwise but can rotate other way slightly???
I've spent months re-building my recently purchased 07' E63 with rebuilt Heads and Intake Manifold, installed new front AirSprings along with torque Arms, ball joints etc., and now it's mostly done. What I'm trying to find is info about using STAR XENTRY to do do an adaptation start-up to set the Camshaft Timing, since mine was way out of wack due to the Cam Adjusters on the passenger side being installed incorrectly! Someone had taken them apart only to put the inner interlocking gear in upside down. When put back together this way, the race facing the cam is further recessed than is normal causing the diamond washer to be un-used because the end of the Cam will not sit flush to the cam adjuster. Instead the outer rim of that recessed race which normally sits maybe a 1/8" away from the Timing fork on the camshaft is now butting up against that Timing fork when the Cam Bolt was tightened. Yikes! The only thing keeping it from uncontrollably wobbling was its being "supported" by the Cam drive gear from below! It's no wonder my E63 had 8 of 16 Intake Valves bent as a result of this! I only discovered this while I was putting things back together after sending the Heads out to be rebuilt! I even went ahead to purchase two new Cam Adjusters and ultimately took them apart to compare. What I found was that by installing that inner interlocking gear upside down, it not only swaps the opposing faces that would contact the Cam or the Cam Bolt, but by being installed upside down the oil channel governing the recessed barrel causing the Adjuster to lock in place to advance or retard Timing that is supposed to face the Cam Solinoid (i.e.-Cam Bolt side) is rendered useless! I was slightly relieved when Mercedes refunded me for those two Cam Adjusters when I brought them back the next week especially since I discovered on this valuable board the MB service update inferring when one Intake Cam Adjuster is replaced on one side another Intake should be paired on the other.
So needless to say, I'm chomping at the bit to get this baby running again! I just would like to get some input about how to adapt the ECU to the now properly set up Cam Timing??? My understanding from the guru "Tasos" is that STAR must be employed after making such a repair. And yes I did use New Headbolts as well as new Spark Plugs, installed a couple new ignition cassettes, new P/S Pump and HP Hose and new reservoir, VRP Shorty Headers, Racing Brake Rotors/Pads etc. Any help would greatly appreciated!!
Well, I went ahead and tried starting it after further review of the menus in STAR/DAS, most of which required adapting at 3-3500 rpm, so I bit the bullet and gave her a go. It was really rough seemingly starving for fuel, so I gave it a little gas and backed off because it sounded awefuln and before too long (40 seconds max) Instictively I switched her off to assess. Checked the oil, it was a little low after filling up the cooler so I tended to that. PS fluid was a little low so I filled her up. Coolant didn't budge. So next day I tried to give her another start, but NADA!!! So I took out the 27mm socket with a mini extension and put it on my torque wrench to see if the crank would turn. Of coarse I went clockwise first, but there was NO Movement!! I then tried turning the other way and it would go to a point. Mind you without removing the fan only 10-15 degrees, if that, of turn are possible. So I went back until I was satisfied somewhat that the bottom end wasn't injured. Dreaming maybe? But I'm hopeful anyway!! Then I turned it clockwise again smoothly until ther was an evident stop! I tried pulling harder, but alas I dared NOT to push it.
So my thinking is that the problem is either:
1-a.Timing Chain-maybe I installed imperfectly although when placing both cam gears back on after installing the Heads, there was certain tension from below, so I was certain the teeth of the CamShaft Drive Gear was engaged as I positioned each of the Cam Gears ultimately installing them with their pins.
b.perhaps my setting of the timing chain guides on each side were off? Not sure how since I made sure each had the pins installed in their proper place. My only question here was my incertainty with there being a groove or something that the bottom side of each were supposed to be "set" in. Since I DIDN't remove the Timing cover during the process, I wasn't sure, but prior to installing the Cams, I turned the crank to be sure the chain moved freely as did each of the Cam Gears???
2-Before installing the Heads I pushed down on several of the valve tappets to be certain they both had sufficient tension and pushed down on the Valves as they should. Being that they were rebuilt by the top guys around here (Xtreme Heads), I'm fairly confident the Heads weren't the problem. I did install the SLS Tappets and used Lukus Assembly Lube (red) as well as lubed the faces of each lobe of the Cams as well as the caps and recesses of each before install. Tightened the Cam caps gradually until the were tighten per spec with an inch/pound torque wrench. Installed the Cam Adjusters diligently, this is how I found out that both on the passenger side were installed backwards as I've previously explained. Made certain the timing was set perfectly making sure it was at 40 degrees after each Adjuster was tightened down even though they were held in place with the timing tools locking them down. I was expecting the crank to move after swapping the timing tools to the other side to install the Cam Adjusters to the other Head, but it didn't move for the most part. My only guess here is that perhaps the Cam might have gotten hung up on one of the valve tappets??? I mean I checked and double checked that the Cams themselves were on the correct sides and places marking Intake Green and Exhaust Orange.
Yikes!! Man oh man! I was so psyched after getting the programming done for ride height, the CPS initial (1 of 2-2nd at 3000rpm) adaptation, the front Height sensor I replaced, thus requiring the programming for ride height etc. All that was left was to Start it up after months of work!!!! Now I'm going on a planned trip and will have to take her apart again to find what damage has been done when I get back!!!
So needless to say, I'm chomping at the bit to get this baby running again! I just would like to get some input about how to adapt the ECU to the now properly set up Cam Timing??? My understanding from the guru "Tasos" is that STAR must be employed after making such a repair. And yes I did use New Headbolts as well as new Spark Plugs, installed a couple new ignition cassettes, new P/S Pump and HP Hose and new reservoir, VRP Shorty Headers, Racing Brake Rotors/Pads etc. Any help would greatly appreciated!!
Well, I went ahead and tried starting it after further review of the menus in STAR/DAS, most of which required adapting at 3-3500 rpm, so I bit the bullet and gave her a go. It was really rough seemingly starving for fuel, so I gave it a little gas and backed off because it sounded awefuln and before too long (40 seconds max) Instictively I switched her off to assess. Checked the oil, it was a little low after filling up the cooler so I tended to that. PS fluid was a little low so I filled her up. Coolant didn't budge. So next day I tried to give her another start, but NADA!!! So I took out the 27mm socket with a mini extension and put it on my torque wrench to see if the crank would turn. Of coarse I went clockwise first, but there was NO Movement!! I then tried turning the other way and it would go to a point. Mind you without removing the fan only 10-15 degrees, if that, of turn are possible. So I went back until I was satisfied somewhat that the bottom end wasn't injured. Dreaming maybe? But I'm hopeful anyway!! Then I turned it clockwise again smoothly until ther was an evident stop! I tried pulling harder, but alas I dared NOT to push it.
So my thinking is that the problem is either:
1-a.Timing Chain-maybe I installed imperfectly although when placing both cam gears back on after installing the Heads, there was certain tension from below, so I was certain the teeth of the CamShaft Drive Gear was engaged as I positioned each of the Cam Gears ultimately installing them with their pins.
b.perhaps my setting of the timing chain guides on each side were off? Not sure how since I made sure each had the pins installed in their proper place. My only question here was my incertainty with there being a groove or something that the bottom side of each were supposed to be "set" in. Since I DIDN't remove the Timing cover during the process, I wasn't sure, but prior to installing the Cams, I turned the crank to be sure the chain moved freely as did each of the Cam Gears???
2-Before installing the Heads I pushed down on several of the valve tappets to be certain they both had sufficient tension and pushed down on the Valves as they should. Being that they were rebuilt by the top guys around here (Xtreme Heads), I'm fairly confident the Heads weren't the problem. I did install the SLS Tappets and used Lukus Assembly Lube (red) as well as lubed the faces of each lobe of the Cams as well as the caps and recesses of each before install. Tightened the Cam caps gradually until the were tighten per spec with an inch/pound torque wrench. Installed the Cam Adjusters diligently, this is how I found out that both on the passenger side were installed backwards as I've previously explained. Made certain the timing was set perfectly making sure it was at 40 degrees after each Adjuster was tightened down even though they were held in place with the timing tools locking them down. I was expecting the crank to move after swapping the timing tools to the other side to install the Cam Adjusters to the other Head, but it didn't move for the most part. My only guess here is that perhaps the Cam might have gotten hung up on one of the valve tappets??? I mean I checked and double checked that the Cams themselves were on the correct sides and places marking Intake Green and Exhaust Orange.
Yikes!! Man oh man! I was so psyched after getting the programming done for ride height, the CPS initial (1 of 2-2nd at 3000rpm) adaptation, the front Height sensor I replaced, thus requiring the programming for ride height etc. All that was left was to Start it up after months of work!!!! Now I'm going on a planned trip and will have to take her apart again to find what damage has been done when I get back!!!
Last edited by E63007; Oct 11, 2018 at 01:38 AM.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 369
Likes: 53
07' E63
As for the Cams being out of phase, I did mark them up before removing them. DG and PG (G-green) for Intakes on both side and DO (O-Orange) and PO for Exhaust Cams. Installing I used the cam locking tool. Before and after tightening down the Cam Adjusters I checked the timing position of the crankshaft. And before starting her up, I was able to view a menu, not exactly sure where but it was in Engine Managment 9.7 whereby the Cam Adjusters showed two being at 0 degrees and the other 2 were at 80 Or 120, not sure but it was cool to see both sets were at the same position. In order for STAR to learn, the menus requires the engine to be idling first Andy then to be rev'd up to 3500 RPM.
My main concern is maybe the guys who rebuilt them, then wrapped them in plastic, may have swapped sides on me and I may have not picked up on that!!!!! Time will tell once I get back to work on it again!!
Your guess is as good as mine!!!
10/10/18
Just did a trip up north to see some family, but now I'm back at it again! I took off the Valve Covers to find that not only was everything out of timing slightly, but also two of four of the Cam Adjusters Seem to have loosened (i.e.-I could see that the screws keeping them together were slightly loose! This makes me question the legitimacy of WIS instruction to tighten the Cam Bolts 45Nm+90*. Are we supposed to use brakleen on the bolts and the inside of the Cams and the dry them out, otherwise it would seem that recommendation might be a little light as my engine only ran for 30-40 seconds before I shut it down after that first startup?
Nevertheless, I loosened up all the Cam Bolts using the tool in place. When I turned the Crank Manually clockwise I was surprised to notice some gas come out from Driver Side #2 Piston Chamber, which I quickly absorbed with shop towels. Then to make sure, I sucked the rest out with my trusty suction tube. I did the same for chamber #1 as it too had bunch of gas! This certainly explaines the impossibility (i.e.-hydrolock) I had turning the Crank with the Spark Plugs in!! This must have caused the spark plugs in those cylinders to foul. The STAR reporting misfires all around upon that first startup gave me pause but in hindsight, it seems those first two fuel injectors were robbing all the gas upon startup and flooding the first two chambers closest to the fuel inlet hose. I've read somewhere on these forums that "ignition on" without starting should have primed the fuel rail and there's no question I spent much time with STAR engaged before that first startup which should have filled up the rail, but now I'm left wondering if that is the case?? Since there is no way to bleed the fuel rail seemingly in-situ, I'm scratching my head wondering if I should have manually filled up the rail when I had the chance after installing the Intake?? I can see a nut at the end of the rail on passenger side. I can't imagine it being a good idea to break it open to bleed? Am I supposed to pull the entire rail and fill it up manually otherwise how does the fuel manage to get over to passenger side if the rail is dry? If injectors are blowing out air for the first few turns, my understanding is STAR will label that as a misfire and the ECU will automatically shut down that cylinder. I don't want to go through that again! At least now I'm relieved to know that it wasn't a bent valve or something worse that kept the engine from turning over! But I'm left with the above questions before I wrap things up again and try to startup again? Are we supposed to let it misfire, shut it down quickly, clear codes in STAR and do it all over again until there are no misfires? My 4 banger SAAB never has these issues after not being started up for a while, but alas, it doesn't have a fuel rail that loops up over the Intake to the other side. My Jeep ZJ does though and it starts right up! Any advice would be appreciated!!
My main concern is maybe the guys who rebuilt them, then wrapped them in plastic, may have swapped sides on me and I may have not picked up on that!!!!! Time will tell once I get back to work on it again!!
Your guess is as good as mine!!!
10/10/18
Just did a trip up north to see some family, but now I'm back at it again! I took off the Valve Covers to find that not only was everything out of timing slightly, but also two of four of the Cam Adjusters Seem to have loosened (i.e.-I could see that the screws keeping them together were slightly loose! This makes me question the legitimacy of WIS instruction to tighten the Cam Bolts 45Nm+90*. Are we supposed to use brakleen on the bolts and the inside of the Cams and the dry them out, otherwise it would seem that recommendation might be a little light as my engine only ran for 30-40 seconds before I shut it down after that first startup?
Nevertheless, I loosened up all the Cam Bolts using the tool in place. When I turned the Crank Manually clockwise I was surprised to notice some gas come out from Driver Side #2 Piston Chamber, which I quickly absorbed with shop towels. Then to make sure, I sucked the rest out with my trusty suction tube. I did the same for chamber #1 as it too had bunch of gas! This certainly explaines the impossibility (i.e.-hydrolock) I had turning the Crank with the Spark Plugs in!! This must have caused the spark plugs in those cylinders to foul. The STAR reporting misfires all around upon that first startup gave me pause but in hindsight, it seems those first two fuel injectors were robbing all the gas upon startup and flooding the first two chambers closest to the fuel inlet hose. I've read somewhere on these forums that "ignition on" without starting should have primed the fuel rail and there's no question I spent much time with STAR engaged before that first startup which should have filled up the rail, but now I'm left wondering if that is the case?? Since there is no way to bleed the fuel rail seemingly in-situ, I'm scratching my head wondering if I should have manually filled up the rail when I had the chance after installing the Intake?? I can see a nut at the end of the rail on passenger side. I can't imagine it being a good idea to break it open to bleed? Am I supposed to pull the entire rail and fill it up manually otherwise how does the fuel manage to get over to passenger side if the rail is dry? If injectors are blowing out air for the first few turns, my understanding is STAR will label that as a misfire and the ECU will automatically shut down that cylinder. I don't want to go through that again! At least now I'm relieved to know that it wasn't a bent valve or something worse that kept the engine from turning over! But I'm left with the above questions before I wrap things up again and try to startup again? Are we supposed to let it misfire, shut it down quickly, clear codes in STAR and do it all over again until there are no misfires? My 4 banger SAAB never has these issues after not being started up for a while, but alas, it doesn't have a fuel rail that loops up over the Intake to the other side. My Jeep ZJ does though and it starts right up! Any advice would be appreciated!!
Last edited by E63007; Oct 11, 2018 at 02:04 AM.
