82mm TB Hiccup/Lean Rabbit Hole and my Fix
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 979
Likes: 38
From: South Africa
2018 E63s AMG (Current) 2011 CL63 AMG (Sold) 2005 CLS55 AMG (Sold) 2004 C32 AMG (Sold)
Got'er up and running with a few drives under my belt. I haven't tried doing any tuning with it yet but I'm intercepting the CPS and MAP for timing/fuel tuning. All the offsets are still at zero but so far everything is running good. The biggest downside is that you can't log actual timing at the ignition coil with this set up, just your timing offset of the CPS. It's a pretty big bummer because that's how I planned to watch for knock. I'm going to tie one of the inputs into a knock sensor and see if I can sort anythign out from that. I know I ran into a couple threads that said the signals were noisy and not useful without all the fancy stuff the ECU does with it but I'll take a look anyways.
On the plus side it's got some really nice features. The ability to log, and overlay any of the data collected from any of the inputs over top of the fuel or spark tables. So you can overlay say AFR and it will directly overlay your logged data into the adjustment table making it super easy to fine tune fuel. Its got two different PWM outputs, can control methonal pump, or you can set up rules to trigger lights under what ever circumstances you want.
Anyways, I'll do a separate write up in a bit with a wiring diagram probably and some info on the hiccups I ran into, hopefully some data on how well the tuning is working for me haha
On the plus side it's got some really nice features. The ability to log, and overlay any of the data collected from any of the inputs over top of the fuel or spark tables. So you can overlay say AFR and it will directly overlay your logged data into the adjustment table making it super easy to fine tune fuel. Its got two different PWM outputs, can control methonal pump, or you can set up rules to trigger lights under what ever circumstances you want.
Anyways, I'll do a separate write up in a bit with a wiring diagram probably and some info on the hiccups I ran into, hopefully some data on how well the tuning is working for me haha
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 899
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2005 E55
Yeah, real bummer. I E-Mailed their US and Polish(home) tech support. The US support got back to me quickly but seemed very confused by the question, first telling me it wasn't necessary to see what actual ignition timing was and started talking about a different product, then when I clarified that they were talking about the wrong product, they responded and started talking about dangerous ignition voltages as if I was wanting to connect to a damn spark plug wire. I think the brains of the operation are in Poland and the "EcumasterUSA" folks are just a sales team. The Poland support email has not responded back. Pretty sure I know the answer though. I did pull one of the knock sensors into an aux input and I'll see if I can get anything good from there. I know there are a few threads on here that talk about how noisy and difficult the sensors are, with no usable data. But the DET has a few things as well as frequency input/filtering that I can play with to see if I can make sense of anything out of the sensor. But for now it's back to watching toque timing logs for knock
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2005 e55 AMG
As always good customer support is key with everything. Using a system like this could be an expensive disaster if you don't have the correct knowledge back ground with electronics and how an engine should run.
On a side note what do you run for fuel??
On a side note what do you run for fuel??
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2017
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2005 E55
Timing was easy to see it works! Did a run, logged timing with torque, set all timing cells to -2 degrees, watched torque again and saw 2 degrees less timing across the board haha. So that's good news.
I'd like to fine tune timing as much as I can, knock limited and get AFR squared away around 11.5 across the board but without a good way to see if i have knock the timing is a bit of a crap shoot.
Last edited by drothgeb; Aug 11, 2020 at 08:27 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3,323
Likes: 583
2005 e55 AMG
Your doing a great job. It takes ***** to do this stuff and we have all....some of us, been there, to test new things on a perfectly good running car !!!
I can't tell you how many times I have had transmissions and valve body's out to tweak and adjust to get it just right. !!! Labor of love with this stuff I guess !
I can't tell you how many times I have had transmissions and valve body's out to tweak and adjust to get it just right. !!! Labor of love with this stuff I guess !
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 899
Likes: 140
2005 E55
Your doing a great job. It takes ***** to do this stuff and we have all....some of us, been there, to test new things on a perfectly good running car !!!
I can't tell you how many times I have had transmissions and valve body's out to tweak and adjust to get it just right. !!! Labor of love with this stuff I guess !
I can't tell you how many times I have had transmissions and valve body's out to tweak and adjust to get it just right. !!! Labor of love with this stuff I guess !
Got a great new lead on a way to monitor knock though. KnocksenseMS ties into existing knock sensor or sensors, runs an LED light, and produces a 0-5v analog knock detection output. I'm waiting on a response from the seller but will pull the trigger as soon as he sends paypal info haha. Fingers crossed he still makes them. http://www.viatrack.ca/
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 979
Likes: 38
From: South Africa
2018 E63s AMG (Current) 2011 CL63 AMG (Sold) 2005 CLS55 AMG (Sold) 2004 C32 AMG (Sold)
Thanks man, got the new thread going but calling it quits for the night: https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...ml#post8130716
Got a great new lead on a way to monitor knock though. KnocksenseMS ties into existing knock sensor or sensors, runs an LED light, and produces a 0-5v analog knock detection output. I'm waiting on a response from the seller but will pull the trigger as soon as he sends paypal info haha. Fingers crossed he still makes them. http://www.viatrack.ca/
Got a great new lead on a way to monitor knock though. KnocksenseMS ties into existing knock sensor or sensors, runs an LED light, and produces a 0-5v analog knock detection output. I'm waiting on a response from the seller but will pull the trigger as soon as he sends paypal info haha. Fingers crossed he still makes them. http://www.viatrack.ca/
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Joined: May 2007
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From: San Diego
2004 E55
I'd like to go with a 82mm throttle body, if it's a worthwhile upgrade, but the information is scattered and it's really hard to tell if it's a reliable upgrade or not. I searched the thread and did not see anyone mention whether the throttle body sensor adaptations were reset via DAS after installing. Is this something that's just "a given" and nobody is mentioning it, or is it not common practice when people are installing the throttle bodies?
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2005 E55
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2007
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From: San Diego
2004 E55
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jun 2017
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2005 E55
I found this video and was wondering if this is something everyone is doing, because I can't really find it specifically mentioned.
https://youtu.be/g4Z_M_8cHmA
https://youtu.be/g4Z_M_8cHmA
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Joined: May 2007
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From: San Diego
2004 E55
Yes I've done it. Does not fix the 82mm hiccup for those unfortunate enough to be plagued by it. In that video the "rotor adaptation" page he's looking at is for the CPS and flywheel and is not related to the throttle body, it is anoying to get them relearned and in my experience the car may suffer from "false" misfires until the common ranges are appropriately learned. It's also believed the throttle body stops relearning that's mentioned on the reset page can be done manually.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 335
Likes: 54
CLS55 AMG
My issue only really come up under an almost specific condition below is my usual test of re-tunes to see if the tune has resolved the hiccup issue:
Start car let idle drop before driving
Cruise from 70-90 MPH with a pull once warmed up to get some boost
Cruise from 80-90 MPH on south I35 into a head wind
Felt first hiccup and saw STFTs stay high (highlighted in orange in log sheet)
Continued south until I found a safe place to pull over
Let car idle for a few minutes noticing the car having the rough idle like it was trying to stay in idle
Turned car off, removed key, opened door and waited a few minutes
Restarted car and headed back to Austin on I35 north
Cruising at 80-90mph felt slight hiccup an saw check engine light come one
That stretch of road and driving conditions will trigger the hiccup almost 100% of the time (depending on traffic conditions as I need to stay at 80+ for a while without slowing down). Those speeds and terrain might be why some folks do not experience a hiccup, it also seems like a majority of the conversations have moved to facebook which kinda sucks for those of us without it.
I *almost* wonder if there is a ram air effect at those speeds and with the 82mm throttlebody that is contributing to the hiccup but that is just speculation. At this point since I've tried 3 used 82mm throttlebodies I've been recommended to try a BRAND NEW 82 to start with a known good working throttlebody. If you are on the facebook groups you might pose the question there to see if folks have an issue.
With as many 90mm throttlebodies being promoted around here I'm surprised that none of those folks have experienced the hiccup.
Start car let idle drop before driving
Cruise from 70-90 MPH with a pull once warmed up to get some boost
Cruise from 80-90 MPH on south I35 into a head wind
Felt first hiccup and saw STFTs stay high (highlighted in orange in log sheet)
Continued south until I found a safe place to pull over
Let car idle for a few minutes noticing the car having the rough idle like it was trying to stay in idle
Turned car off, removed key, opened door and waited a few minutes
Restarted car and headed back to Austin on I35 north
Cruising at 80-90mph felt slight hiccup an saw check engine light come one
That stretch of road and driving conditions will trigger the hiccup almost 100% of the time (depending on traffic conditions as I need to stay at 80+ for a while without slowing down). Those speeds and terrain might be why some folks do not experience a hiccup, it also seems like a majority of the conversations have moved to facebook which kinda sucks for those of us without it.
I *almost* wonder if there is a ram air effect at those speeds and with the 82mm throttlebody that is contributing to the hiccup but that is just speculation. At this point since I've tried 3 used 82mm throttlebodies I've been recommended to try a BRAND NEW 82 to start with a known good working throttlebody. If you are on the facebook groups you might pose the question there to see if folks have an issue.
With as many 90mm throttlebodies being promoted around here I'm surprised that none of those folks have experienced the hiccup.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 899
Likes: 140
2005 E55
My issue only really come up under an almost specific condition below is my usual test of re-tunes to see if the tune has resolved the hiccup issue:
Start car let idle drop before driving
Cruise from 70-90 MPH with a pull once warmed up to get some boost
Cruise from 80-90 MPH on south I35 into a head wind
Felt first hiccup and saw STFTs stay high (highlighted in orange in log sheet)
Continued south until I found a safe place to pull over
Let car idle for a few minutes noticing the car having the rough idle like it was trying to stay in idle
Turned car off, removed key, opened door and waited a few minutes
Restarted car and headed back to Austin on I35 north
Cruising at 80-90mph felt slight hiccup an saw check engine light come one
That stretch of road and driving conditions will trigger the hiccup almost 100% of the time (depending on traffic conditions as I need to stay at 80+ for a while without slowing down). Those speeds and terrain might be why some folks do not experience a hiccup, it also seems like a majority of the conversations have moved to facebook which kinda sucks for those of us without it.
I *almost* wonder if there is a ram air effect at those speeds and with the 82mm throttlebody that is contributing to the hiccup but that is just speculation. At this point since I've tried 3 used 82mm throttlebodies I've been recommended to try a BRAND NEW 82 to start with a known good working throttlebody. If you are on the facebook groups you might pose the question there to see if folks have an issue.
With as many 90mm throttlebodies being promoted around here I'm surprised that none of those folks have experienced the hiccup.
Start car let idle drop before driving
Cruise from 70-90 MPH with a pull once warmed up to get some boost
Cruise from 80-90 MPH on south I35 into a head wind
Felt first hiccup and saw STFTs stay high (highlighted in orange in log sheet)
Continued south until I found a safe place to pull over
Let car idle for a few minutes noticing the car having the rough idle like it was trying to stay in idle
Turned car off, removed key, opened door and waited a few minutes
Restarted car and headed back to Austin on I35 north
Cruising at 80-90mph felt slight hiccup an saw check engine light come one
That stretch of road and driving conditions will trigger the hiccup almost 100% of the time (depending on traffic conditions as I need to stay at 80+ for a while without slowing down). Those speeds and terrain might be why some folks do not experience a hiccup, it also seems like a majority of the conversations have moved to facebook which kinda sucks for those of us without it.
I *almost* wonder if there is a ram air effect at those speeds and with the 82mm throttlebody that is contributing to the hiccup but that is just speculation. At this point since I've tried 3 used 82mm throttlebodies I've been recommended to try a BRAND NEW 82 to start with a known good working throttlebody. If you are on the facebook groups you might pose the question there to see if folks have an issue.
With as many 90mm throttlebodies being promoted around here I'm surprised that none of those folks have experienced the hiccup.
But, I verified it's not related to the stock intake/potential ram air type deal by switching the factory intake with the green mushroom filter straight off the throttle body. Same issue.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 335
Likes: 54
CLS55 AMG
Figures I reply to this thread and find out that the throttlebody I've been running starts idling low 1.2-2 TPS today and throws a P0505 :/ Looks like I'll be biting the bullet on a brand new one much sooner than expected
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 899
Likes: 140
2005 E55
Is it an 82mm throttebody? That is very possibly just an air leak and not related to what's being discussed here. No one has fixed the problem discussed in this thread with a brand new throttle body, unless they were going back to factory size from 82.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 335
Likes: 54
CLS55 AMG
Yea, it is an 82mm... my third used one. It had been running fine (aside from the P0106 hiccup) since May with TPS between 2-2.4%. This recent issue just came up today.
