Some thoughts on upgrading the W211 horsepower wise...
09-03-2004, 02:53 AM
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Some thoughts on upgrading the W211 horsepower wise...
Tonight I was out with some of my gearhead friends, one of which has an '02 Ford Lightning SVT. While it also is a Supercharged V8, they use an Eaton Roots Type, while we use a Lysholm twin-screw type. What's one of the big bottle necks in their setup? The heat exhange system, just like ours.
I've been looking over the limited dyno graphs for M113K (55K) engines and you can see their is a significant drop off in torque as the RPMs increase. This is typically caused by 2 things: air flow restriction and heat soak. For the SVT guys, 3 things greatly alleviate these problems:
1.) Headwork
2.) Ported/Upgraded Supercharger
3.) Heat Exchanger Upgrade
Here's a little article about the MB Superchargers themselves:
The problem with an inefficient heat exchange system, is that not only does it start sending hot air to the motor, which naturally makes less power, it also makes the ECU pull timing as to avoid detonation. The E55 ECU uses knock sensors and will increase/decrease timing as needed given various factors... intake air temperature, knock sensor readings, etc.
Let's refer to this dyno from Evosport:
From 4000rpm to 6500rpm our cars LOSE 150RWTQ!!
Compare that to a mildly tweaked '03 Cobra
Chipping/changing the pulley on the car only aggrevates the situation, and doesn't improve on it. If you were making 450rwtq instead of 350rwtq @ 6500rpm you'd be making 550rwhp instead of 450rwhp @ 6500rpm.
So I think the FIRST step in making this car faster is no increasing boost, but to alleviate the power drop off in the upper RPM. I know from other member's posts (stephens) that the cooling system in this car leaves a lot to be desired, and I'm very interested in seeing a before & after dyno with a properly engineered and implemented heat exhange system. I want to also look into porting options for the supercharger itself, which is always a good thing. I know a couple of porting guys who do very good work, but they may be afraid to touch a MB blower
I actually spoke to one of the head techs at my dealership "off the record" and we spoke about race gas. I am very confident that 100 octane unleaded may do our cars a world of good, given the heat problems it has in the stock configuration. Higher octane fuel means it is more difficult to ignite but also lowers cylinder temperatures and allows a car to run more timing (IE, more power!). This is something I am going to try soon, but since I haven't figured out an easy way to dyno my car with the ESP system, I'll have to wait for any difinitive data.
Now, my final question is why is the car this way? Well, having less torque in the upper rpm makes the car more reliable. In the upper RPM shifting with a boat load more torque takes it toll on drivetrain parts, mostly the transmission. Since you are only using full torque @ wide open throttle, and at wide open throttle the car will shift at redline, it's possible MB made the torque drop off like this to help preserve the transmission. I see the same drop off in the TT V12 600 cars, and it may be for the same reason. I don't know. I don't work for MB, nor do I have any major MB tuning experience. All my speculation and thoughts here are from being around and building insane street cars like my own.
I hope this topic will spur some discussion and debate. I'm very eager to start modifying my car, but I think I'm going to take it slow and do it the right way from the get go. See what works and what doesn't, document it, and go from there. I am really excited about this car and it's potential, and know from experience that when talking about engineering and upgrading, two heads are better than one!
All questions/comments/criticisms welcome.
-m
I've been looking over the limited dyno graphs for M113K (55K) engines and you can see their is a significant drop off in torque as the RPMs increase. This is typically caused by 2 things: air flow restriction and heat soak. For the SVT guys, 3 things greatly alleviate these problems:
1.) Headwork
2.) Ported/Upgraded Supercharger
3.) Heat Exchanger Upgrade
Here's a little article about the MB Superchargers themselves:
The most potent supercharged Mercedes is the SL55 AMG. With a 5.4-litre V8 thumping out 350kW and 700Nm (from just 2650 rpm) that should come as no surprise!
The SL55 AMG’s highly efficient Lysholm-type supercharger (manufactured by IHI) features Teflon coated compressor screws and is driven at more than 23,000 rpm at an engine speed of 6500 rpm. At this speed, the blower displaces 1850kg of induction air per hour and generates up to 12 psi of boost pressure. The supercharger is also equipped with an electro-magnetic clutch that is used to switch it on/off depending on rpm and load. A water-to-air intercooler is also used to help achieve that magic 350kW.
And then there’s the smaller Mercedes SLK32 and C32 AMG.
Using a 3.2-litre V6, these cars apparently use the same Lysholm-type supercharger unit as the SL55. In this application, however, maximum boost is up to 14.6 psi and at maximum engine speed (6220 rpm) the blower is flowing up to 1200kg per hour of induction air. Interestingly, the blower does not engage at engine speeds above 3000 rpm due to the resulting belt stress. Maximum outputs are 260kW and 450Nm of torque.
And price? A Mercedes dealership quoted us AUD$10,933 (new) for either ...
The relatively garden-variety Mercedes SLK230 and C-class is equipped with a less sophisticated Eaton M62 supercharger. The M62 displaces 1000cc of induction air per revolution and is smaller overall than the M90. On the SLK, the Eaton M62 generates up to 7 psi of boost and with the aid of an air-to-air intercooler it makes 142kW. Again, an electro-magnetic clutch is used to switch the blower on/off.
The Eaton M62 is generally suggested for use on 2.5 to 4.0-litre engines and is about 40cm long, 20cm wide and 12.5cm tall. A new one from Mercedes Benz will cost you AUD$5558 but, again, check out the wreckers.
The SL55 AMG’s highly efficient Lysholm-type supercharger (manufactured by IHI) features Teflon coated compressor screws and is driven at more than 23,000 rpm at an engine speed of 6500 rpm. At this speed, the blower displaces 1850kg of induction air per hour and generates up to 12 psi of boost pressure. The supercharger is also equipped with an electro-magnetic clutch that is used to switch it on/off depending on rpm and load. A water-to-air intercooler is also used to help achieve that magic 350kW.
And then there’s the smaller Mercedes SLK32 and C32 AMG.
Using a 3.2-litre V6, these cars apparently use the same Lysholm-type supercharger unit as the SL55. In this application, however, maximum boost is up to 14.6 psi and at maximum engine speed (6220 rpm) the blower is flowing up to 1200kg per hour of induction air. Interestingly, the blower does not engage at engine speeds above 3000 rpm due to the resulting belt stress. Maximum outputs are 260kW and 450Nm of torque.
And price? A Mercedes dealership quoted us AUD$10,933 (new) for either ...
The relatively garden-variety Mercedes SLK230 and C-class is equipped with a less sophisticated Eaton M62 supercharger. The M62 displaces 1000cc of induction air per revolution and is smaller overall than the M90. On the SLK, the Eaton M62 generates up to 7 psi of boost and with the aid of an air-to-air intercooler it makes 142kW. Again, an electro-magnetic clutch is used to switch the blower on/off.
The Eaton M62 is generally suggested for use on 2.5 to 4.0-litre engines and is about 40cm long, 20cm wide and 12.5cm tall. A new one from Mercedes Benz will cost you AUD$5558 but, again, check out the wreckers.
Let's refer to this dyno from Evosport:
From 4000rpm to 6500rpm our cars LOSE 150RWTQ!!
Compare that to a mildly tweaked '03 Cobra
Chipping/changing the pulley on the car only aggrevates the situation, and doesn't improve on it. If you were making 450rwtq instead of 350rwtq @ 6500rpm you'd be making 550rwhp instead of 450rwhp @ 6500rpm.
So I think the FIRST step in making this car faster is no increasing boost, but to alleviate the power drop off in the upper RPM. I know from other member's posts (stephens) that the cooling system in this car leaves a lot to be desired, and I'm very interested in seeing a before & after dyno with a properly engineered and implemented heat exhange system. I want to also look into porting options for the supercharger itself, which is always a good thing. I know a couple of porting guys who do very good work, but they may be afraid to touch a MB blower
I actually spoke to one of the head techs at my dealership "off the record" and we spoke about race gas. I am very confident that 100 octane unleaded may do our cars a world of good, given the heat problems it has in the stock configuration. Higher octane fuel means it is more difficult to ignite but also lowers cylinder temperatures and allows a car to run more timing (IE, more power!). This is something I am going to try soon, but since I haven't figured out an easy way to dyno my car with the ESP system, I'll have to wait for any difinitive data.
Now, my final question is why is the car this way? Well, having less torque in the upper rpm makes the car more reliable. In the upper RPM shifting with a boat load more torque takes it toll on drivetrain parts, mostly the transmission. Since you are only using full torque @ wide open throttle, and at wide open throttle the car will shift at redline, it's possible MB made the torque drop off like this to help preserve the transmission. I see the same drop off in the TT V12 600 cars, and it may be for the same reason. I don't know. I don't work for MB, nor do I have any major MB tuning experience. All my speculation and thoughts here are from being around and building insane street cars like my own.
I hope this topic will spur some discussion and debate. I'm very eager to start modifying my car, but I think I'm going to take it slow and do it the right way from the get go. See what works and what doesn't, document it, and go from there. I am really excited about this car and it's potential, and know from experience that when talking about engineering and upgrading, two heads are better than one!
All questions/comments/criticisms welcome.
-m
Last edited by Marcus Frost; 09-03-2004 at 02:56 AM.
09-03-2004, 08:38 AM
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I don't profess to know anything about the effect of better heat exchange or limitations on high end torque, but the fact is we use low end torque in everyday driving whereas high end torque and hp are used really only when racing (strip or road course). In my own experience, I did not feel any significant difference running on the track using 102 octane fuel vs. 93 octane fuel.
IMO the car has great power and torque in its state from AMG. All present mods available from reliable tuners are nice, but ridiculously priced for the gains they provide. I do agree that thee's no such thing as enough hp/torque, but these tuners have us over the coals. Similar mods (chips, pulleys, headers, superchargers, brakes) for Mustangs, Vettes, and ricers are far less costly and have a significantly greater impact on performance on those vehicles (because they are far from optimal from the factory and have much lower hp/torque).
My point...I'm not sure.
IMO the car has great power and torque in its state from AMG. All present mods available from reliable tuners are nice, but ridiculously priced for the gains they provide. I do agree that thee's no such thing as enough hp/torque, but these tuners have us over the coals. Similar mods (chips, pulleys, headers, superchargers, brakes) for Mustangs, Vettes, and ricers are far less costly and have a significantly greater impact on performance on those vehicles (because they are far from optimal from the factory and have much lower hp/torque).
My point...I'm not sure.
09-03-2004, 12:23 PM
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If I recall, SVT was working on using the A/C compressor to cool the incoming air to the engine as an on demand thing... it would engage the compressor at light loads to basically charge (cool) an evaporator in the air intake i guess and the compressor would disengage when you wanted full power, but the evaporator would still be very cold for a lil while.
Marcus, AFAIK an upgraded heat exchange system will only provide more consistent power... I don't know if you will see an increase in just upgrading that system alone. As you know there are a lot of factors that can rob power, like idling in the hot summer traffic and then punching the gas... the oomph wont be there, this is where the upgade heat exchange system would help. But when idiling in traffic there is pretty much no where for the heat to go. I dunno I'm just rambling now.
Marcus, AFAIK an upgraded heat exchange system will only provide more consistent power... I don't know if you will see an increase in just upgrading that system alone. As you know there are a lot of factors that can rob power, like idling in the hot summer traffic and then punching the gas... the oomph wont be there, this is where the upgade heat exchange system would help. But when idiling in traffic there is pretty much no where for the heat to go. I dunno I'm just rambling now.
09-03-2004, 01:02 PM
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Chill,
I am not sure how "flexible" the stock ECU is, and how aggressive it will get. It seems that from what I've heard, the MB ECU is a bit more stubborn and requires more time to learn it's new setting. So 1 track day may not be enough - I don't know. Something to try and figure out.
Also, don't get me wrong, the E55 makes great torque, no question about that at all. My problem is that it does not have a flat torque curve, like it should. As I pointed out, you lose 150rwtq through a gear, but look at the torque curve on the '03 Cobra... flat as a floorboard. That is an ideal torque curve. Linear, predictable, and constant. Great for power, great for drivability.
Al,
Heat exchangers are much like intercoolers on turbocharged cars. The difference is the heat exchangers are liquid to air, versus air to air, and the heat exchanger is also tied into the cars main cooling system. Their both serve one similar purpose, to cool the compressed intake charge. Keeping a car cool in traffic is basically the radiator/coolant are supposed to do. In this case we have a supercharger and compressed air added to the list of things a car needs to cool. If your car is developing boost and the heat exchanger is not able to properly cool the intake charge, you'll get soaring intake air temperatures, you'll get reduced timing, you'll get a loss in power, and you'll get a dyno chart like the one we are seeing.
I know the MB has a stock IAT (intake air temp) post heat exchange/pre throttle body that can be read with the DAS. I, unfortunately, do not have a DAS. I may be looking into putting my own IAT on the car to measure the temp myself. There is NO question that a significant reduction in air intake temperature will increase horsepower. What we need to know is how far off ambient the current AIT is with the car in it's stock configuration.
In conclusion:
I think there are really 3 plausible things any E55 owner looking to make more power should look into, even before raising boost: 12psi is quite a bit of boost for a 5.5L V8 car... a higher compression motor like that in a Z06 (which is 5.7L) can make 550rwhp with just 7psi. Some simple math.
Horsepower = ( Torque * RPM ) / 5252.
Right now, at 6700rpm, according to the Evosport graph, the stock E55 makes a measily 310rwtq (!!!) @ 6700rpm, down from +450rwtq at 3000rpm. If were able to maintain torque even at 400rwtq to 6700rpm, our cars would be making 510rwhp @ 6700rpm, all at stock boost. Boost is bad for engines, the more boost, the higher the cylinder pressure and cylinder temperatures, the more prone it is to detonation and other really bad things. Ideally, you want to run the lowest amount of boost possible while still making the amount of power you are looking for. If I can make 500rwhp @ 12psi by improving our engines efficiency, it's much safer and definitely more effective to do so than raising boost 2-3psi.
Some candidates for improving efficiency:
1.) Hand porting the stock supercharger.
2.) Heat exchange system upgrade.
3.) Upgrading headers/exhaust system.
I'm hoping we can have some other gear heads chime in here and offer their opinions as well.
-m
I am not sure how "flexible" the stock ECU is, and how aggressive it will get. It seems that from what I've heard, the MB ECU is a bit more stubborn and requires more time to learn it's new setting. So 1 track day may not be enough - I don't know. Something to try and figure out.
Also, don't get me wrong, the E55 makes great torque, no question about that at all. My problem is that it does not have a flat torque curve, like it should. As I pointed out, you lose 150rwtq through a gear, but look at the torque curve on the '03 Cobra... flat as a floorboard. That is an ideal torque curve. Linear, predictable, and constant. Great for power, great for drivability.
Al,
Heat exchangers are much like intercoolers on turbocharged cars. The difference is the heat exchangers are liquid to air, versus air to air, and the heat exchanger is also tied into the cars main cooling system. Their both serve one similar purpose, to cool the compressed intake charge. Keeping a car cool in traffic is basically the radiator/coolant are supposed to do. In this case we have a supercharger and compressed air added to the list of things a car needs to cool. If your car is developing boost and the heat exchanger is not able to properly cool the intake charge, you'll get soaring intake air temperatures, you'll get reduced timing, you'll get a loss in power, and you'll get a dyno chart like the one we are seeing.
I know the MB has a stock IAT (intake air temp) post heat exchange/pre throttle body that can be read with the DAS. I, unfortunately, do not have a DAS. I may be looking into putting my own IAT on the car to measure the temp myself. There is NO question that a significant reduction in air intake temperature will increase horsepower. What we need to know is how far off ambient the current AIT is with the car in it's stock configuration.
In conclusion:
I think there are really 3 plausible things any E55 owner looking to make more power should look into, even before raising boost: 12psi is quite a bit of boost for a 5.5L V8 car... a higher compression motor like that in a Z06 (which is 5.7L) can make 550rwhp with just 7psi. Some simple math.
Horsepower = ( Torque * RPM ) / 5252.
Right now, at 6700rpm, according to the Evosport graph, the stock E55 makes a measily 310rwtq (!!!) @ 6700rpm, down from +450rwtq at 3000rpm. If were able to maintain torque even at 400rwtq to 6700rpm, our cars would be making 510rwhp @ 6700rpm, all at stock boost. Boost is bad for engines, the more boost, the higher the cylinder pressure and cylinder temperatures, the more prone it is to detonation and other really bad things. Ideally, you want to run the lowest amount of boost possible while still making the amount of power you are looking for. If I can make 500rwhp @ 12psi by improving our engines efficiency, it's much safer and definitely more effective to do so than raising boost 2-3psi.
Some candidates for improving efficiency:
1.) Hand porting the stock supercharger.
2.) Heat exchange system upgrade.
3.) Upgrading headers/exhaust system.
I'm hoping we can have some other gear heads chime in here and offer their opinions as well.
-m
Last edited by Marcus Frost; 09-03-2004 at 01:04 PM.
09-03-2004, 01:55 PM
#6
Marcus:
You are pretty much right on.
We are completing Stage III, which addresses some of the IC circuit shortcomings. I will have some data and dyno graphs next week.
Stage IV will replace factory IC with a tottaly different design that should keep intake charge temps very near ambient.
Stay Tuned!
You are pretty much right on.
We are completing Stage III, which addresses some of the IC circuit shortcomings. I will have some data and dyno graphs next week.
Stage IV will replace factory IC with a tottaly different design that should keep intake charge temps very near ambient.
Stay Tuned!
09-03-2004, 02:16 PM
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04 E55
off topic but all this power in our e55's and yet the handling is still the damn same 
let's figure out how we can make our e55's handle better!
let's figure out how we can make our e55's handle better!
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09-03-2004, 03:44 PM
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vadim,
Excellent news! I look forward to your findings and eagerly anticipate future possible upgrades. I'll email you to discuss things a bit further.
houston,
Handling is a totally different dynamic. The E55 weighs 2 tons. Making a 2 ton car comfortable and handle well is a bit of a paradox, and will require more than simple bolt on upgrades. I'm not looking into making my E55 a track car, drag strip nor road course, I just want it running efficiently and making the power it should for the street. I actually feel that the E55 handles adequately for being what it is, a mid size luxury sedan... this coming from the former owner of an E46 M3 and a current owner of a Supra with a complete race suspension setup. I just don't expect my E55 to handle like an M3 or 911...
-m
Excellent news! I look forward to your findings and eagerly anticipate future possible upgrades
. I'll email you to discuss things a bit further.houston,
Handling is a totally different dynamic. The E55 weighs 2 tons. Making a 2 ton car comfortable and handle well is a bit of a paradox, and will require more than simple bolt on upgrades. I'm not looking into making my E55 a track car, drag strip nor road course, I just want it running efficiently and making the power it should for the street. I actually feel that the E55 handles adequately for being what it is, a mid size luxury sedan... this coming from the former owner of an E46 M3 and a current owner of a Supra with a complete race suspension setup. I just don't expect my E55 to handle like an M3 or 911...
-m
09-03-2004, 05:01 PM
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SL 65 AMG and E63s AMG
I know this is only a stop gap fix for HP but what about Nitrous "AC" for the intercooler. It might come in handy when you need a little extra kick. Here's a link http://www.prostreetonline.com/buy/nx_n-tercooler_kit/ What's your take?
09-03-2004, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus Frost
vadim,
Excellent news! I look forward to your findings and eagerly anticipate future possible upgrades. I'll email you to discuss things a bit further.
houston,
Handling is a totally different dynamic. The E55 weighs 2 tons. Making a 2 ton car comfortable and handle well is a bit of a paradox, and will require more than simple bolt on upgrades. I'm not looking into making my E55 a track car, drag strip nor road course, I just want it running efficiently and making the power it should for the street. I actually feel that the E55 handles adequately for being what it is, a mid size luxury sedan... this coming from the former owner of an E46 M3 and a current owner of a Supra with a complete race suspension setup. I just don't expect my E55 to handle like an M3 or 911...
-m
Excellent news! I look forward to your findings and eagerly anticipate future possible upgrades
. I'll email you to discuss things a bit further.houston,
Handling is a totally different dynamic. The E55 weighs 2 tons. Making a 2 ton car comfortable and handle well is a bit of a paradox, and will require more than simple bolt on upgrades. I'm not looking into making my E55 a track car, drag strip nor road course, I just want it running efficiently and making the power it should for the street. I actually feel that the E55 handles adequately for being what it is, a mid size luxury sedan... this coming from the former owner of an E46 M3 and a current owner of a Supra with a complete race suspension setup. I just don't expect my E55 to handle like an M3 or 911...
-m
marcus i agree with u, but like everyone always say there's never enough HP nor never enough better handling.. i too have a supra 94 but no mods really except a gready intercooler and turbo timer, thinking of putting single turbo and as well need to get rims and tires..
09-03-2004, 05:55 PM
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Vadim:
Keep us posted on your test results for the Stage III & IV. BTW, what kind IC setup do you plan on having for the Stage IV, bigger IC?
Houston, handling is always an issued with me but if you change out your coils and lower your vehicle, you may give up a lot on the ride comfort. I am currently working on tuning my Infiniti G35 coupe and have put in coilovers suspension but the ride is not as comfortable as it use to be although, handles superbly. Without sacrificing the ride, I wonder if there is anyone that sells stiffer sway bars and strut bars that will fit under the hood.
Keep us posted on your test results for the Stage III & IV. BTW, what kind IC setup do you plan on having for the Stage IV, bigger IC?
Houston, handling is always an issued with me but if you change out your coils and lower your vehicle, you may give up a lot on the ride comfort. I am currently working on tuning my Infiniti G35 coupe and have put in coilovers suspension but the ride is not as comfortable as it use to be although, handles superbly. Without sacrificing the ride, I wonder if there is anyone that sells stiffer sway bars and strut bars that will fit under the hood.
09-03-2004, 11:30 PM
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adx - love the sound of those g35's.. i wouldn't mind buying one of those just to throw it around while driving around town and whiping it everywhere for funs.. would make me feel young again
09-05-2004, 01:44 AM
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Houston,
Young is a state of mind rather than a biological age. I love my 04 E55 for the power and style but love my G35 coupe for the handling. Although, I will be putting a supercharger and other mods in my G35 soon and hope to have both handling and power. BTW, what is the best way to improve the handling of the E55 without having to lower it? Are there any sway and strut bar upgrades?
Young is a state of mind rather than a biological age. I love my 04 E55 for the power and style but love my G35 coupe for the handling. Although, I will be putting a supercharger and other mods in my G35 soon and hope to have both handling and power. BTW, what is the best way to improve the handling of the E55 without having to lower it? Are there any sway and strut bar upgrades?
09-05-2004, 09:51 AM
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MB E55 2004
Originally Posted by Vetluver
I know this is only a stop gap fix for HP but what about Nitrous "AC" for the intercooler. It might come in handy when you need a little extra kick. Here's a link http://www.prostreetonline.com/buy/nx_n-tercooler_kit/ What's your take?
Regards,
Manuel
09-05-2004, 12:59 PM
#17
Originally Posted by Marcus Frost
All questions/comments/criticisms welcome.
-m
- remove airconditioning
- remove radio
- strip trunk of lining
- install lightened racing brakes
- remove sound insulation
- unused door panels
- power window motors
- remove window washer container
- remove spare wheel
- remove carpet
- remove metal panels and replace with CF
But hey if you want to carry around hundreds of pounds of equipment ....
09-05-2004, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Vetluver
I know this is only a stop gap fix for HP but what about Nitrous "AC" for the intercooler. It might come in handy when you need a little extra kick. Here's a link http://www.prostreetonline.com/buy/nx_n-tercooler_kit/ What's your take?
I know that Renntech is also working on a modification that moves the heat exchanger to the top of the supercharger however I think this requires major engine and hood mods and would not be offered as a bolt on kit.
09-05-2004, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by saber
A system like this would certainly help however the actual heat exchanger itself is located under the supercharger. Using this system on the outside little radiator in front of the main radiator is an indirect method and could not produce the best possible results.
I know that Renntech is also working on a modification that moves the heat exchanger to the top of the supercharger however I think this requires major engine and hood mods and would not be offered as a bolt on kit.
I know that Renntech is also working on a modification that moves the heat exchanger to the top of the supercharger however I think this requires major engine and hood mods and would not be offered as a bolt on kit.
Regards,
Manuel
10-21-2004, 10:16 AM
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01zo6 03 lightning 05 e500
just thought id throw some input in for u guys i have a 03 svt lightning. i really like the e55 wish i would have got one over my wifes e500 but price and so on anyway. the lightnings heat exchanger (mines upgraded) is in front of the radiator i saw no gain from as it has larger surface area it really only helps when the trucks moving to help cool intercooler fluid .at the track i let it cool down any way.i have added spal fans to mine to help cool @ the track and wired the intercooler pump to come on with the spals via a switch just helps it cool down faster. i also have a 4# pulley and a programer which made a huge diffrence switched to one step cooler plugs simple ngk's no platniums or fancy plugs as they hold heat. the eaton is good till about 15# of boost on the lightning then looses efficency (too much heat )which is why alot switch to twin screw kenny bells= more efficent. the tune on the lightning is where the power comes from getting the afr 11.5 -12.0 correct and i run 18 degree's of timing my set up gives me 435 rwhp and 512 rwtq.i also have a ported blower from apten this netted 22rwhp and 02rwtq. power cooler which lets you add ice water too the intercooler fluid will give you some hp but is only good for track use this may be an option for you though
the one major mod i did was install a wide band commander basically a wide band 02 sensor lets me monitor my af ratios and can data log them for me to email to my tunner lots of lightnings throw rods when they get lean as rods are our trucks weak points i dont think any force inducted car should not have 1. most of us use gator back belts also to keep belt slippage to a minimum i also run a larger idler pulley for this reason also. a lower thermostat will also help keep temps down i run a 20 degree cooler thermostat for help with detonation. dont know if this is the kind of info you guys are looking for but i can post in much more detail on my mods and findings if anyone is intrested. i also called my tunner about my e500 will let u know what he says when i get a call back cause the tunners out there for the benz are ridicoulsly priced imho....
the one major mod i did was install a wide band commander basically a wide band 02 sensor lets me monitor my af ratios and can data log them for me to email to my tunner lots of lightnings throw rods when they get lean as rods are our trucks weak points i dont think any force inducted car should not have 1. most of us use gator back belts also to keep belt slippage to a minimum i also run a larger idler pulley for this reason also. a lower thermostat will also help keep temps down i run a 20 degree cooler thermostat for help with detonation. dont know if this is the kind of info you guys are looking for but i can post in much more detail on my mods and findings if anyone is intrested. i also called my tunner about my e500 will let u know what he says when i get a call back cause the tunners out there for the benz are ridicoulsly priced imho....
10-24-2005, 01:58 AM
#24
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: El Paso, TX
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'03 G500, '13 G63, '17 GLS63,
Headers should reduce EGT's, but not necessriy underhood temps as the headers have much larger surface area and will likely let off a lot more heat than the stock manifolds. I actually have a set of Kleemanns laying around. I just havent installed them due to what I've been told about throwing a check engine light.
10-24-2005, 05:25 AM
#25
MBWorld Fanatic!
I heard to take advantage of higher octane fuel you need a ecu remap ... ? Is this the case?
I thought the ecu advanced engine timing until it detected detonation and then pulled back timing ahead of this point ... but the max advance has a preset limit and with higher octane this max advance could be increased.
Rgds Steve.
I thought the ecu advanced engine timing until it detected detonation and then pulled back timing ahead of this point ... but the max advance has a preset limit and with higher octane this max advance could be increased.
Rgds Steve.
