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You might be right. Bringatrailer will give you the highest prices with actual sale data. But you’re not going to find an example with mileage as high as yours on that site. Might help, might not. Thought I’d throw it out there since it hasn’t been mentioned. I will say though that if you want to simply replace your car with a similar mileage one that’s in good shape, finding one for $11-12k will not be very difficult. There’s some decent examples on the forum marketplace right now.
It doesn't matter what you sold yours for. What matters is dealer retail value. And 143k isn't the same thing as 170k.
I have continued refining my analysis with AutoTrader, Cars.com and Edmunds listings. I am also removing outliers to improve my curve fit. Current projection is $17,500 or so. This is uaing about 24 nationwide dealer retail listings, accounting for mileage only.
Actual sales is what is going to count becasue anyone can set an asking price on any car. This it true with dealers too. BaT and eBay will give you actual sales prices. For eBay you have to have an account and with that you can see what completed transaction sold for. BaT sales are available to everyone.
I was incorrect. I had seen a black one that I thought had around your mileage for 12k, but it has 196k miles.
Yes. You're making my point about values. Btw my "algorithm" says a car with 200k will have an average listing price of $13,750. I will post my new curve.
12 AutoTrader, 7 Cars.com and 5 Edmunds listings, nationwide. Removed outliers. R-squared is looking decent and I could tighten it up more. 143k is around $17,500 on this curve. Again, yes, this is listing price. However, USUALLY the "internet price" at dealers is not that negotiable. Exceptions exist, like anything.
I remember someone else in this forum going through the same thing...maybe do a search.
Just tried. Didn't really find anything recent other than a thread with some similar "debates" as this one. I get the feeling some people just aren't aware of what the market has done in the past 2 years or even 1 year.
Just tried. Didn't really find anything recent other than a thread with some similar "debates" as this one. I get the feeling some people just aren't aware of what the market has done in the past 2 years or even 1 year.
I remember that thread but hadn't read through it before. Some interesting stuff in there. It sounds like I should NOT let them take the car until we have settled - I will offer to have it stored in my garage for free while we settle. And by offer, I mean I will tell them the car will be in my garage if they need to see it (after this adjustment/estimate process completes). One guy said it took 4 months to settle (and he suggested it was sped up by filing a complaint) but he stored it in his garage during that time. Obviously they want to avoid storage charges. I don't REALLY want a wrecked car in there but if it helps the process I will do it. There is also still the option of buying it back. Again, buying it back should be possible without it going to their facility as far as I can figure.
I did have a car totaled on a comp claim back in 08/09. Bought it back and it never left my custody. Of course, it was also totally drivable.
Are the used car values on the website based on actual sales? And is the clean retail price a typical dealer asking price or a final selling price? Do the used car values on your website include sales tax and destination charges?
The data is the guide value for the vehicle itself. The data sources used to determine the used car values are actual auction and retail sales transactions, asking price information, as well as numerous macro- and micro-economic factors. These sources are reviewed by our editors every month. No the prices do not include taxes because sales tax varies in each state. However, NADAguides publishes regional values for use by dealers, lenders, insurance companies and taxing authorities. We also provide these same values for consumers on the website without any regionalization. Keep in mind there could be a few hundred dollars difference between the National and Regional values.
What would cause the value of a vehicle to go up over time rather than decrease?
When there is a significant decline in new vehicle sales, the market has far fewer trade-ins. Programs such as the Cash for Clunkers program can remove a large block of vehicles that possibly would have re-sold. Rental car companies may keep their fleets in service longer, which also causes a shortage in used car supply resulting in a strong demand. Until new car volume returns to about 14 million, you will continue to see some upward pressure on some segments. Another contributing factor could be that your state has a higher tax rate per $100.00 of value. With dealers and private parties looking to purchase used vehicles and the supply limited, prices in most segments have increased.
That last one appears to have been written pre-2012 (hence the Cash for Clunkers reference). New car volume DID return to 14M in 2012 and hasn't dipped below 14M since.
Does NADAguides use a depreciation schedule to determine depreciation percentage rate per year?
NADAguides does not use a depreciation schedule to determine the value of used vehicles. We use auction data, retail data, asking price data, as well as macro- and micro- economic factors and judgment among other things in an attempt to depict the used vehicle market. Used vehicles depreciate at different rates, which is why we do not use a standard depreciation percentage rate across all vehicles.
I'm not sure I believe this. It is possible what is going on with the E55s is that the "data is too low" for their system, so they probably use interpolated data from other vehicles, such as the E500 and attempt to scale based on MSRP. There is no way in hell you use real market data and come up with $8,500 for an 04 with 143k, especially when you consider, in their own words, that this is about what you can reasonably expect to pay at a dealer:
Is the clean retail value just the value of the car or does it include dealer fees?
Our retail value is what a person could reasonably pay for a vehicle at a dealer's lot. It does not include sales tax, and destination charges are only used for new vehicle purchases and would not come into play for a used value.
Why is my vehicle value on the site far below sale prices in my area?
Individual vehicles may have an actual value that is higher or lower than the estimated values created by NADAguides. We use sales from around the country and adjust our values on a regular basis.
So yeah the whole thing is weak and pathetic, at least for a car like ours.
Talked to an agent at my agency (not my ins company). She couldn't really advise much on my claims process strategy but seemed to suggest that I should go along with whatever Progressive wants to do for best results. I'm not sure I agree with that.
The other thing she said that was pertinent was that I didn't even have the option for an agreed value policy from Progressive. It would have had to be a totally different company (like a Hagerty) that does this stuff and then those policies come with stipulations about vehicle usage and mileage. In other words, and while I haven't actually shopped such a policy, they probably wouldn't have let me commute in it under such coverage. So the whole "well you should have done an agreed value policy if you wanted better results" is a BS argument.
There are many more just like this. My agent claims in 30 years she's never had anyone ask about third party appraisals yet clearly this is a thing (as the other thread suggested it was). This actually seems simple. They give me a textbook value of X, I challenge it and say, no I will pay for an individual appraisal (i.e. the manual way) and accept the results.
Yeah this is definitely a thing. $395 for these guys and they also let you pay $95 as a first step to see if it even makes sense to buy the appraisal (I suspect some do this for free), but that fee can be applied to the full appraisal so whatever. Alright well I guess all I can do is wait for the first offer and then go from there. Still don't think I should release the car until we settle but it is possible that I may get a less favorable result by taking matters into my own hands with towing the car to my house....hmm.
When is the adjuster supposed to look at your car? It shouldn't take more than a couple days and those have passed. They will total your car. It's old and has a lot of miles with structural and mechanical damage front and rear. Their interest is to close the claim and move on, in addition they don't want to be "married" to your car with supplements and possible future claims relating to the accident. You are looking at the value with some emotion, the insurance just looks at numbers. I often deal with car insurance adjusters at work. I can say they have always been fair, and unbiased, even sometimes going towards the customers favor in respect to coverage and repair costs except in cases of obvious fraud. That does not apply to the value of a total loss. They have guidelines to follow in that respect and those guidelines are pretty much the same, and accepted throughout the industry with all the companies.
Last edited by E55Greasemonkey; Sep 1, 2022 at 12:57 PM.
BaT is not a valid source for values, as many of their auctions are never paid for and there is no way to tell which bidders are legitimate. Many of those too good to be true prices are exactly that.
BaT is not a valid source for values, as many of their auctions are never paid for and there is no way to tell which bidders are legitimate. Many of those too good to be true prices are exactly that.
Agreed. And while I saved off a bunch of recent E55 BaT comps, I have not used any of them in my own appraisal process. eBay leaves something to be desired, as well. I do not think eBay gets the kind of eyeballs that it used to for car sales. There are way too many other, better places to buy (and sell) a car.
When is the adjuster supposed to look at your car? It shouldn't take more than a couple days and those have passed. They will total your car. It's old and has a lot of miles with structural and mechanical damage front and rear.
The adjuster will be looking at the car ASAP. I am not sure they will tell me but it could be today, tomorrow or early next week.
I have been getting a similar line from various people throughout this process, which is that the policy is not intended to cover replacement cost of the car. First of all, that news to me, because that's the entire point of insurance. Second, they say, instead, that the coverage will pay for the "value" of the car. But, uh, what kind of value? Dealer retail (which is what NADA is supposed to be)? Private party? Trade-in? Wholesale? I keep getting this story that "the total loss value is not intended for you to replace the car." I think what this statement is intended to explain is, if someone had a late model vehicle with 25k on it, and it was totaled, that person might say "hey, this thing was like brand new, I need enough money to replace it....with a new one, which is slightly newer and has no mileage." Well, clearly that's not a reasonable expectation. And it isn't mine. I am not trying to get an 09 E63 from an 04 E55 (ok maybe bad example to use). I am trying to get an 04 E55 from an 04 E55. No more, no less. The car is either worth a lot, or a little. But I can't accept this situation where mine is worth nothing but every single other example is worth twice what mine is. The real world doesn't work like that. And I also don't think the expectation should be that I need to go find a bottom 10% example just to even come close to the check I got. It makes no sense to me. Unless they credibly determined that my example was also a bottom 10% example (before the collision damage). I would at least be willing to hear that argument and see the numbers for that case.
Apparently the adjuster did their thing. Gross total estimate is $13,726.53. Interesting. Looks like they tried to at least get on the line that I claimed was the total point but that's assuming my appraisal flies. I see junkyard headlights and hood on here.
App says it is totaled so obviously I will expect a call with their appraised value.
I was advised to get the appraisal package electronically so I will request that.
If you end up looking for another e55 I have been thinking about getting rid of mine. Lots and lots of $$$ in this car. I’m not looking to get a silly amount from it. I am a long time forum lurker but just joined to reply here.
If you end up looking for another e55 I have been thinking about getting rid of mine. Lots and lots of $$$ in this car. I’m not looking to get a silly amount from it. I am a long time forum lurker but just joined to reply here.
Thanks. We can discuss separately, though you probably don't have PM ability yet.
For full transparency and because I think some people will want to see this, I have redacted the estimate for public viewing. Definitely some interesting tidbits in here that I noted. But maybe the biggest thing is what's NOT on here. I see nothing about the radiator, A/C, and stuff like that. I'm guessing the plan was to sneak under 75% and then have to add in a few things that were discovered during the repair. While you could certainly remove some cost from this it is also not padded with excess. Looks like the spare tire well is available from MB still, too.
I happened to look up the muffler part. It came up as an E320 part. The AMG muffler is about the same price but includes less pipe...whatever.
Anyway, plot twist: estimate was written by Progressive, not the body shop. So that means they think the value is something less than $18,500. My guess is the first offer will be something under $14k. Looks like I will have to wait until next week to find out.
Insurance company played their hand. Not going to disclose until this is settled but I will be employing the services of an appraisal company to assist in this matter.
In the meantime, here are some heart breaking photos as I was cleaning it out.
Yes, I asked what the salvage value is and haven't received a response yet.
FML. But, hopefully I get a good check out of it....we'll see.
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