New Member, Looking for Some Wisdom
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4Runner
New Member, Looking for Some Wisdom
New to the world of AMG and looking for some advice. I currently DD a 23' 4Runner and am getting the itch for a second car to go fast in and be something my son and I can work on when he's a little bit older. I've been looking at E55/E63 AMG and CTS-Vs as some of my options since I need to be in a sedan so I can fit a car-seat in the back. Couple of questions that I've got, which I can't seem to find definitive answer for though.
Is there a major difference in reliability between the E55 and E63? I guess more specifically in powertrain between the M113, M156, and I've read mixed opinions on the M157, or is this all just subjective and anecdotal?. Since it won't be my daily it's not a huge deal if it's down for a bit to do some work on it...but I'd prefer one that won't grenade on me in the first couple month.
I know the CTS-V has the LSX motor which is comparatively cheap and easier to get replacement parts and work on, but something about the AMG just calls to me a bit more.
I found one locally (2005 E55) but it has 175k miles on it and is asking $16k which seems a little high when I look at KBB/Edmunds. Or do those things not even matter in today's market? It seems to have a lot of the common issues addressed though so I guess any insight on if it's a good deal would be helpful:
Billet aluminum pulley set
Harmonic balancer
AMG belt wrap kit
Upgraded heat exchanger, Eurocharge Houston TX
Stage 1 tcu tune, Eurocharge Houston TX
Stage 1 ecu tune, Eurocharge Houston TX
Custom Brabus exhaust
Tires have less than 2000 miles on them
Both 12V batteries have been replaced recently
Both front and rear suspension Arnott airbags
Oil filter housing gasket
L/R valve cover gaskets
Front L/R lower control arms
Motor mounts
Rear subframe mounts
Radiator, coolant tank and hoses
Fuel pump recall serviced by MB
SBC braking system recall serviced by MB
The overall goal is to find something under $20k (obviously if I can find a better deal then that's more $$ for maintenance and upgrades to start with). So any advice on what you guys would look for, within that budget, would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance!
Is there a major difference in reliability between the E55 and E63? I guess more specifically in powertrain between the M113, M156, and I've read mixed opinions on the M157, or is this all just subjective and anecdotal?. Since it won't be my daily it's not a huge deal if it's down for a bit to do some work on it...but I'd prefer one that won't grenade on me in the first couple month.
I know the CTS-V has the LSX motor which is comparatively cheap and easier to get replacement parts and work on, but something about the AMG just calls to me a bit more.
I found one locally (2005 E55) but it has 175k miles on it and is asking $16k which seems a little high when I look at KBB/Edmunds. Or do those things not even matter in today's market? It seems to have a lot of the common issues addressed though so I guess any insight on if it's a good deal would be helpful:
Billet aluminum pulley set
Harmonic balancer
AMG belt wrap kit
Upgraded heat exchanger, Eurocharge Houston TX
Stage 1 tcu tune, Eurocharge Houston TX
Stage 1 ecu tune, Eurocharge Houston TX
Custom Brabus exhaust
Tires have less than 2000 miles on them
Both 12V batteries have been replaced recently
Both front and rear suspension Arnott airbags
Oil filter housing gasket
L/R valve cover gaskets
Front L/R lower control arms
Motor mounts
Rear subframe mounts
Radiator, coolant tank and hoses
Fuel pump recall serviced by MB
SBC braking system recall serviced by MB
The overall goal is to find something under $20k (obviously if I can find a better deal then that's more $$ for maintenance and upgrades to start with). So any advice on what you guys would look for, within that budget, would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,966
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From: Republic of Texas
'99 and '05 E55 AMG
Welcome!
That car has thousands of dollars worth of maintenance performed on it. The initial cost on these cars is reasonable but parts and labor can eat one alive. The more work you do yourself the easier it is to afford and enjoy.
E55 has the M113 engine using '90's technology but is very reliable; you have to work at it to break it. The E55's 722.6 5-speed transmission is reliable and can handle tremendous amounts of torque but is not as responsive as the 722.9 7-speed in the E63.
E55 model year '03 to '05 have a single relay controlling the dual fuel pumps. IMO, weakest point on the whole car. Upgrade immediately to a 70-amp relay.
The feel of the torque jump when the supercharger engages is like a drug. Awesome feeling!
PM me your email address and I'll send you about 30MB of technical information on the car.
FWIW, my '05 E55 is about to roll 230,000 miles. I'm still keeping it.
Others will chime in. Yuille36 has a plethora of knowledge on the W211 E63.
That car has thousands of dollars worth of maintenance performed on it. The initial cost on these cars is reasonable but parts and labor can eat one alive. The more work you do yourself the easier it is to afford and enjoy.
E55 has the M113 engine using '90's technology but is very reliable; you have to work at it to break it. The E55's 722.6 5-speed transmission is reliable and can handle tremendous amounts of torque but is not as responsive as the 722.9 7-speed in the E63.
E55 model year '03 to '05 have a single relay controlling the dual fuel pumps. IMO, weakest point on the whole car. Upgrade immediately to a 70-amp relay.
The feel of the torque jump when the supercharger engages is like a drug. Awesome feeling!
PM me your email address and I'll send you about 30MB of technical information on the car.
FWIW, my '05 E55 is about to roll 230,000 miles. I'm still keeping it.
Others will chime in. Yuille36 has a plethora of knowledge on the W211 E63.
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2023
Posts: 9
Likes: 2
4Runner
Welcome!
That car has thousands of dollars worth of maintenance performed on it. The initial cost on these cars is reasonable but parts and labor can eat one alive. The more work you do yourself the easier it is to afford and enjoy.
E55 has the M113 engine using '90's technology but is very reliable; you have to work at it to break it. The E55's 722.6 5-speed transmission is reliable and can handle tremendous amounts of torque but is not as responsive as the 722.9 7-speed in the E63.
E55 model year '03 to '05 have a single relay controlling the dual fuel pumps. IMO, weakest point on the whole car. Upgrade immediately to a 70-amp relay.
The feel of the torque jump when the supercharger engages is like a drug. Awesome feeling!
PM me your email address and I'll send you about 30MB of technical information on the car.
FWIW, my '05 E55 is about to roll 230,000 miles. I'm still keeping it.
Others will chime in. Yuille36 has a plethora of knowledge on the W211 E63.
That car has thousands of dollars worth of maintenance performed on it. The initial cost on these cars is reasonable but parts and labor can eat one alive. The more work you do yourself the easier it is to afford and enjoy.
E55 has the M113 engine using '90's technology but is very reliable; you have to work at it to break it. The E55's 722.6 5-speed transmission is reliable and can handle tremendous amounts of torque but is not as responsive as the 722.9 7-speed in the E63.
E55 model year '03 to '05 have a single relay controlling the dual fuel pumps. IMO, weakest point on the whole car. Upgrade immediately to a 70-amp relay.
The feel of the torque jump when the supercharger engages is like a drug. Awesome feeling!
PM me your email address and I'll send you about 30MB of technical information on the car.
FWIW, my '05 E55 is about to roll 230,000 miles. I'm still keeping it.
Others will chime in. Yuille36 has a plethora of knowledge on the W211 E63.
I saw a video somewhere (Legit Street Cars maybe?) with an E55 on the Dyno at 402k miles so that game me some hope about the longevity of these cars. FWIW that's why I went with a 4Runner for my DD. Old school 5spd trans and decade old V6 that stands the test of time. Have you had any major issues with your E55? or just the basic maintenance? I don't plan on modding with anything too crazy to hurt reliability...I just want something faster and louder than the refrigerator I normally dive
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,481
Likes: 310
95 SL600
Get the ctsv, the Mercedes at 175,000 miles isn’t what I would call reliable. Great cars when they work, but they require lots of fixing. I have both and the ctsv is regular maintenance, the e55 every 3000 miles something needs attention.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,966
Likes: 1,315
From: Republic of Texas
'99 and '05 E55 AMG
I appreciate the welcome, and the info!
I saw a video somewhere (Legit Street Cars maybe?) with an E55 on the Dyno at 402k miles so that game me some hope about the longevity of these cars. FWIW that's why I went with a 4Runner for my DD. Old school 5spd trans and decade old V6 that stands the test of time. Have you had any major issues with your E55? or just the basic maintenance? I don't plan on modding with anything too crazy to hurt reliability...I just want something faster and louder than the refrigerator I normally dive
I saw a video somewhere (Legit Street Cars maybe?) with an E55 on the Dyno at 402k miles so that game me some hope about the longevity of these cars. FWIW that's why I went with a 4Runner for my DD. Old school 5spd trans and decade old V6 that stands the test of time. Have you had any major issues with your E55? or just the basic maintenance? I don't plan on modding with anything too crazy to hurt reliability...I just want something faster and louder than the refrigerator I normally dive
-Supercharger clutch scatter shield (if the springs break, you can lose thermostat housing and oil lines)
-Upgraded fuel pump relay (the stock relay *will* melt and put you on the side of the highway in rush hour traffic)
-UPD heat exchanger
-UPD rear toe arms (highly recommended!)
-Eurocharge ME (Motor Electronics) stage one tune
-UPD air filter housing modification kit to improve air flow into the engine.
-Arnott air springs all corner
-aftermarket wheels as the stock wheels are very low-strength and will crack if you hit the smallest (literally!) pothole. After losing four wheels in three years, I gave up and installed aftermarket wheels. And it's not like the roads in Texas are as bad as the ones in the Northeast.
Maintenance is the key to these, I usually plan on taking the car down for half a day once every three months and for up to three weeks once a year for maintenance. This car is a daily driver so weekend drivers *should* be able to get away with less downtime. FWIW, over the nine years I've owned this car, the yearly average mileage is 17,000 miles per year.
Last edited by bbirdwell; Sep 15, 2023 at 06:56 PM.
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2023
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4Runner
This is what I'm worried about. I know LSX motors are fairly cheap (comparatively) even if the whole thing blows. Do you enjoy driving one over the other, besides the maintenance, though?
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,481
Likes: 310
95 SL600
Oh yes, all of the AMG cars I own are more enjoyable to drive than the CTSV. None are more reliable. I own 5 of these era cars. E55 Sl55,cls55,C32,c55, and they need much more attention. The highest mileage one I have is the CLS with 120,000 miles.
Every 3000 miles or so they need something besides an oil change or regular maintenance., mostly things that make them inoperable. Maintenance or repair, whatever you like to call it, they need more of it than other cars.
Every 3000 miles or so they need something besides an oil change or regular maintenance., mostly things that make them inoperable. Maintenance or repair, whatever you like to call it, they need more of it than other cars.
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Joined: Nov 2015
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From: Salem OR
AMG's, CTS-V's, SRT's
Welcome to the forum!
We have quite the knowledge on both of those vehicles so we figured we would chime in.
First off if your budget is 20k or under you will most likely be looking at a first generation Cadillac CTS-V (04-07). Great cars but you will most likely be spending alot of time on our website purchasing suspension parts for the car. They are fairly reliable except for basically every bushing on the vehicle, shifter, and rear differential. The second generation CTS-V is much more reliable but finding one in decent condition will be very tough for 20k or under.
The E55 or E63... E55 has the supercharger which is addicting and has instant torque. The E63 has the 7 speed trans which feels a little more modern and more of a daily driver. Both are fairly reliable but I would watch out for head bolt issues on the M156 (not as big of a deal as some want to think).
All 3 are great cars for what it sounds like you are looking for. If you want something you can constantly tinker on (aftermarket parts) or want bigger power 600whp+ than go for the CTS-V. If you are looking for something to cruise but still be able to beat the average kid with a hopped up import light to light? E55. Go for the E63 if you don't plan to do much to the car other then drive it and enjoy it. The E63 is a great car but in my opinion the E55 is the better of the two W211 models.
We have quite the knowledge on both of those vehicles so we figured we would chime in.
First off if your budget is 20k or under you will most likely be looking at a first generation Cadillac CTS-V (04-07). Great cars but you will most likely be spending alot of time on our website purchasing suspension parts for the car. They are fairly reliable except for basically every bushing on the vehicle, shifter, and rear differential. The second generation CTS-V is much more reliable but finding one in decent condition will be very tough for 20k or under.
The E55 or E63... E55 has the supercharger which is addicting and has instant torque. The E63 has the 7 speed trans which feels a little more modern and more of a daily driver. Both are fairly reliable but I would watch out for head bolt issues on the M156 (not as big of a deal as some want to think).
All 3 are great cars for what it sounds like you are looking for. If you want something you can constantly tinker on (aftermarket parts) or want bigger power 600whp+ than go for the CTS-V. If you are looking for something to cruise but still be able to beat the average kid with a hopped up import light to light? E55. Go for the E63 if you don't plan to do much to the car other then drive it and enjoy it. The E63 is a great car but in my opinion the E55 is the better of the two W211 models.
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2023
Posts: 9
Likes: 2
4Runner
Welcome to the forum!
We have quite the knowledge on both of those vehicles so we figured we would chime in.
First off if your budget is 20k or under you will most likely be looking at a first generation Cadillac CTS-V (04-07). Great cars but you will most likely be spending alot of time on our website purchasing suspension parts for the car. They are fairly reliable except for basically every bushing on the vehicle, shifter, and rear differential. The second generation CTS-V is much more reliable but finding one in decent condition will be very tough for 20k or under.
The E55 or E63... E55 has the supercharger which is addicting and has instant torque. The E63 has the 7 speed trans which feels a little more modern and more of a daily driver. Both are fairly reliable but I would watch out for head bolt issues on the M156 (not as big of a deal as some want to think).
All 3 are great cars for what it sounds like you are looking for. If you want something you can constantly tinker on (aftermarket parts) or want bigger power 600whp+ than go for the CTS-V. If you are looking for something to cruise but still be able to beat the average kid with a hopped up import light to light? E55. Go for the E63 if you don't plan to do much to the car other then drive it and enjoy it. The E63 is a great car but in my opinion the E55 is the better of the two W211 models.
We have quite the knowledge on both of those vehicles so we figured we would chime in.
First off if your budget is 20k or under you will most likely be looking at a first generation Cadillac CTS-V (04-07). Great cars but you will most likely be spending alot of time on our website purchasing suspension parts for the car. They are fairly reliable except for basically every bushing on the vehicle, shifter, and rear differential. The second generation CTS-V is much more reliable but finding one in decent condition will be very tough for 20k or under.
The E55 or E63... E55 has the supercharger which is addicting and has instant torque. The E63 has the 7 speed trans which feels a little more modern and more of a daily driver. Both are fairly reliable but I would watch out for head bolt issues on the M156 (not as big of a deal as some want to think).
All 3 are great cars for what it sounds like you are looking for. If you want something you can constantly tinker on (aftermarket parts) or want bigger power 600whp+ than go for the CTS-V. If you are looking for something to cruise but still be able to beat the average kid with a hopped up import light to light? E55. Go for the E63 if you don't plan to do much to the car other then drive it and enjoy it. The E63 is a great car but in my opinion the E55 is the better of the two W211 models.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,020
Likes: 532
From: Alexandria, VA
07 E63 AMG, 10 C63 AMG, 07 E63 Designo, 07 E350, 09 C300, 07 C230
Yes, the M156 engine did suffer from head bolt issues, but I have never seen it myself. And neither has my good friend Jack who has been the AMG Master Tech/Shop Forum at my local Mercedes Dealership for years.
The percentage is very low for failed head bolts and gaskets, everyone just swapped them out of an abundance of caution like myself. I can't remember off hand, but their is an engine serial number when AMG starting changing these head bolts out for the revised ones.
And to be totally honest, I haven't heard or seen any MB World members with actual broken head bolts. I had changed mine out at 88K, as the data showed that owners were experiencing issues around the 90K mark.
If you unsure if your head bolts were changed out, and your thinking of doing, the easiest and cheapest way, is to swapped them one at a time, this way you preserve the clamping force on the head. And you won't need to replace head gaskets.
The percentage is very low for failed head bolts and gaskets, everyone just swapped them out of an abundance of caution like myself. I can't remember off hand, but their is an engine serial number when AMG starting changing these head bolts out for the revised ones.
And to be totally honest, I haven't heard or seen any MB World members with actual broken head bolts. I had changed mine out at 88K, as the data showed that owners were experiencing issues around the 90K mark.
If you unsure if your head bolts were changed out, and your thinking of doing, the easiest and cheapest way, is to swapped them one at a time, this way you preserve the clamping force on the head. And you won't need to replace head gaskets.
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 326
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CLS55AMG
Check out this YouTube link below to AMG Meister who has lots of information videos on the 2 cars you are looking at the E55 and E63. I had heard the M156 engines also were plagued with injectors sticking open end hydrolocking cylinders and camshaft wear on variants that had infrequent oil changes. I have a CLS55 with M113K and love it. I also have a trans tune that really modernized the feel and performance of the 5speed auto from factory. I love RPMs so the 6.3L is more enticing but the huge torque on the 5.4L supercharged engine is astonishing and is more than fast enough for the street and reliable.
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,020
Likes: 532
From: Alexandria, VA
07 E63 AMG, 10 C63 AMG, 07 E63 Designo, 07 E350, 09 C300, 07 C230
The W211 is an old chassis, and the same goes for the engines whether it's an M156 or M113, fuel injectors fail period, especially for a vehicle that is nearly pushing 20 years old.
So, your injectors need to be replaced, it is part of the maintenance cycle. And as far of cam wear, the wear was mostly attributed to the long 1 yr. oil cycles.
Most owners have adopted a 6-month oil change cycle, so the issue has been mitigated. I have been doing this for years, and when I had my head bolts changed, my cams had very little wear on them.
So, be weary of what is published online, everyone gives you the worst-case scenarios. I have owned three M156 equipped AMG's and have never experienced any of these issues.
And the issues aren't as widespread as your made to believe. A large majority of these issues were isolated in nature. Just talk to a M156 owner and get their take on things.
So, your injectors need to be replaced, it is part of the maintenance cycle. And as far of cam wear, the wear was mostly attributed to the long 1 yr. oil cycles.
Most owners have adopted a 6-month oil change cycle, so the issue has been mitigated. I have been doing this for years, and when I had my head bolts changed, my cams had very little wear on them.
So, be weary of what is published online, everyone gives you the worst-case scenarios. I have owned three M156 equipped AMG's and have never experienced any of these issues.
And the issues aren't as widespread as your made to believe. A large majority of these issues were isolated in nature. Just talk to a M156 owner and get their take on things.
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From: The Netherlands
2005 CLS55 AMG W219 C219
Good post @Yuille36 , remember that people on forums are usually the ones that tend to complain/search for solutions for their issues. All the other people who have no issues, are busy enjoying their cars 
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4Runner
Good post @Yuille36 , remember that people on forums are usually the ones that tend to complain/search for solutions for their issues. All the other people who have no issues, are busy enjoying their cars
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From: Republic of Texas
'99 and '05 E55 AMG
100% this is good to hear. From what I've been reading you'd have the impression that an M156 is going to fail immediately due to the headbolt issue. I've also now put C63 on my radar since I love the body style. Just waiting for the right E55/63 or C63 to pop up in my area so I can pull the trigger. All the CTS-V's around Vegas are pretty clapped out, comparatively
Yeah, right. I passed on it.If it's an E63, I listen to Yuille36. If it's an E55, there are several folks here to whom I listen. As you hang out here, you'll get a feel for the posts to read. FWIW, UncleBenz55 provides outstanding technical info from across the pond. And Andy from the Netherlands is meticulous in documenting maintenance and upgrades on his W219 CLS55 (close relation to the W211 so electrical and mechanical fully interchange).
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,020
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From: Alexandria, VA
07 E63 AMG, 10 C63 AMG, 07 E63 Designo, 07 E350, 09 C300, 07 C230
Thank you all. I try to give good advice, about the M156 engine. As far as head bolts go, don't be scared of it, some head bolts have indeed failed. The issue was reported to Mercedes-AMG, and that revised the head bolt.
They started incorporating them into their engines in 2010-2011, most of us have changed them ours out due to an abundance of caution. But in my many years as an owner, I have never seen or heard of anyone that has failed.
And I have a great relationship with my local AMG Master Tech/Shop Foreman at Mercedes Benz. And he has never seen it either. I do know that some have failed but the percentage is like .5% of the overall number of engines AMG has built over the years.
If you buy an M156 you should check the head bolts, and I would recommend changing them out for the revised ones. Especially if you're planning on keeping the vehicle for a long time, just cheap insurance.
I've also heard of M156 engines that have never changed them out, with over 150,000 miles without issue. So, it's all about risk mitigation.
They started incorporating them into their engines in 2010-2011, most of us have changed them ours out due to an abundance of caution. But in my many years as an owner, I have never seen or heard of anyone that has failed.
And I have a great relationship with my local AMG Master Tech/Shop Foreman at Mercedes Benz. And he has never seen it either. I do know that some have failed but the percentage is like .5% of the overall number of engines AMG has built over the years.
If you buy an M156 you should check the head bolts, and I would recommend changing them out for the revised ones. Especially if you're planning on keeping the vehicle for a long time, just cheap insurance.
I've also heard of M156 engines that have never changed them out, with over 150,000 miles without issue. So, it's all about risk mitigation.
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Joined: Jul 2014
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2005 e55 AMG
I think coolant flushes play a role as well. NO ONE ever looks at that as a "must maintain" item unless you are fanactical about your car.
That was always a tough sell at the dealer and as cars change hands over the years people don't know who did what on the car unless there is a record of it.
That was always a tough sell at the dealer and as cars change hands over the years people don't know who did what on the car unless there is a record of it.
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Joined: May 2022
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From: The Netherlands
2005 CLS55 AMG W219 C219
Jeps, coolant also has a service interval. People tend to forget that. For our M113k cars its 250k km (155k miles) or 15 years
Last edited by nd-photo.nl; Sep 26, 2023 at 09:05 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,020
Likes: 532
From: Alexandria, VA
07 E63 AMG, 10 C63 AMG, 07 E63 Designo, 07 E350, 09 C300, 07 C230
I think coolant flushes play a role as well. NO ONE ever looks at that as a "must maintain" item unless you are fanactical about your car.
That was always a tough sell at the dealer and as cars change hands over the years people don't know who did what on the car unless there is a record of it.
That was always a tough sell at the dealer and as cars change hands over the years people don't know who did what on the car unless there is a record of it.
And as the coolant ages, it gets more ascetic and calcified, and this does have an effect on the head bolts and your cooling system as a whole. I now do regular coolant flushes every four yrs now.
But, I do agree this is often overlooked by many. My mechanic often mentions to me, that I have the best well maintained AMG in Northern Virginia. Considering all the money I spent on it.
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2005 e55 AMG
I will go 5 years since it is so cheap and easy to do.
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From: The Netherlands
2005 CLS55 AMG W219 C219
@SICAMG I totally agree with you! I serviced my coolant beginning of August when I replaced the original (!) waterpump after 18 years. So this was long overdue...
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4Runner
Going to see if I can go check out that E55 over the weekend. It's got higher mileage than I'd prefer at 175K BUT it sounds like it's been well maintained and all of the common issues/recalls have already been addressed or upgraded. I will keep you guys posted!
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 341
Likes: 153
From: Tacoma
05 E55 (06 E55 RIP)
Have you driven or spent time in a CTSv? I couldnt get past the offensive build quality and cheap feeling they have. Buttons with all the paint worn off, mis fitting dash panels. I would rather drive a E63 over any CTSv. Money makes anything go fast, but it cant fix bad bones.
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Joined: May 2022
Posts: 1,917
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From: The Netherlands
2005 CLS55 AMG W219 C219
100% this is good to hear. From what I've been reading you'd have the impression that an M156 is going to fail immediately due to the headbolt issue. I've also now put C63 on my radar since I love the body style. Just waiting for the right E55/63 or C63 to pop up in my area so I can pull the trigger. All the CTS-V's around Vegas are pretty clapped out, comparatively
Link: https://mbworld.org/forums/c219/8443...ld-thread.html
