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I just picked up a 07 E63 with 117k miles on the clock. The car is phenomenal and has exceeded my expectations in every way, to the extent that it's reignited my passion for cars. The previous owner wasn't able to tell me much about its service history and what has been done and what hasn't. The engine is very quiet at idle, the only thing you can hear are the injectors. I had a valve cover off to inspect the cams and the lifters and thankfully they looked great and show no signs of wear, but was disappointed to see it still has the old style head bolts.
My question is: would this car have made it to this mileage without the camshafts being replaced? Anyone out there going 150-200k miles without changing them? I know this has been asked a lot but it's hard to get a complete picture just based on previous posts since they are few and far between. It's hard for me to believe that someone would replace the cams without changing the head bolts too, so I believe that they are the original camshafts. The engine also rattles under light and medium load. I assume it's the cam sprockets but oddly enough they don't make any noise during startup.
I'm considering just replacing the intake cams, lifters, head bolts, and rebuilding the cam sprockets all in one go, but if I can put it off for a year or two (or forever lol) that would preferable.
The camshafts are not the problem - the cam phasers and hydraulic lifters are the problem. The cam phasers are hydraulically actuated and can tend to lose oil pressure after sitting overnight. The drain down can lead to cam lobe wear. Also, the cam phasers have a hardened steel pin that locates the phasers. This pin is a stronger steel than the cam phaser which causes a galling out of the pin locating hole. This leads to camshaft wear. Finally, the hydraulic lifters in the base M156 engines tend to stick in the heads causing the cam lobes to slap against the lifters causing wear.
The phasers from MB have to purchased as a complete unit - you can't buy the components. On my E63, I bought replacement phaser plates (see pic below of the galled out plate from one of my phasers) that is a much stronger steel. Hopefully, that will solve the galling issue. Bad metallurgic design by MB.
While I had that engine work done, I also had installed a set of AMG Black Series lifters that are coated to prevent sticking in the heads. Other issues you need to be concerned about is oil blow by from the block into the intake manifold. The PCV valve on this engine is useless - made of plastic and does not do the job of venting pressure and also keeping oil out of the IM. I am installing an oil/air separator catch can to catch the oil blow by from the block pressures. Collateral damage from oil blow by into the IM is corrosion to the IM body. The IM is made up of three parts - the lower plenum, the upper plenum (where you see the AMG plate who assembled your engine) and the middle plate that houses the two throttle bodies. These parts are made of magnesium. Magnesium tends to corrode and fall apart in the presence of oil, fuel, heat - all of which are present in the M156 IM. The IM corrosion leads to holes in the IM which allows air into the IM causing issues - CEL and the like. Similar to the phasers, the IM components are not sold separately - you have to buy the whole IM assembly and the cost is around $2,500 or so. I had my IM cleaned and replaced the middle plate with an alloy plate. I also had the IM coated to protect against corrosion.
I have 136k miles on my E63 (2009 P30) and love the car. The PO had the head bolts done at the dealer, so I have addressed the major engine issues. Great car and a good engine once the bugs are taken care of. Sorry to say, but these issues are not cheap to correct. Expect to pay $10k at least for all the work and parts.
The camshafts are not the problem - the cam phasers and hydraulic lifters are the problem. The cam phasers are hydraulically actuated and can tend to lose oil pressure after sitting overnight. The drain down can lead to cam lobe wear. Also, the cam phasers have a hardened steel pin that locates the phasers. This pin is a stronger steel than the cam phaser which causes a galling out of the pin locating hole. This leads to camshaft wear. Finally, the hydraulic lifters in the base M156 engines tend to stick in the heads causing the cam lobes to slap against the lifters causing wear.
The phasers from MB have to purchased as a complete unit - you can't buy the components. On my E63, I bought replacement phaser plates (see pic below of the galled out plate from one of my phasers) that is a much stronger steel. Hopefully, that will solve the galling issue. Bad metallurgic design by MB.
While I had that engine work done, I also had installed a set of AMG Black Series lifters that are coated to prevent sticking in the heads. Other issues you need to be concerned about is oil blow by from the block into the intake manifold. The PCV valve on this engine is useless - made of plastic and does not do the job of venting pressure and also keeping oil out of the IM. I am installing an oil/air separator catch can to catch the oil blow by from the block pressures. Collateral damage from oil blow by into the IM is corrosion to the IM body. The IM is made up of three parts - the lower plenum, the upper plenum (where you see the AMG plate who assembled your engine) and the middle plate that houses the two throttle bodies. These parts are made of magnesium. Magnesium tends to corrode and fall apart in the presence of oil, fuel, heat - all of which are present in the M156 IM. The IM corrosion leads to holes in the IM which allows air into the IM causing issues - CEL and the like. Similar to the phasers, the IM components are not sold separately - you have to buy the whole IM assembly and the cost is around $2,500 or so. I had my IM cleaned and replaced the middle plate with an alloy plate. I also had the IM coated to protect against corrosion.
I have 136k miles on my E63 (2009 P30) and love the car. The PO had the head bolts done at the dealer, so I have addressed the major engine issues. Great car and a good engine once the bugs are taken care of. Sorry to say, but these issues are not cheap to correct. Expect to pay $10k at least for all the work and parts.
Thanks for the detailed response. I feel a lot more confident knowing the root of the issue. Sounds like I'll need to take care of the issue sooner than later.
Did you buy new sprockets and replace the plates or did you install the plates on the old sprockets? What did they use to coat your IM? I'm a technician by trade so parts and special service tools are my only expense. I'm expecting to spend about 1700 for stock lifters, stage 1 plates, and a set of new head bolts. Cheaper than a new motor and it should last another 80k miles without issue.
My indie shop had a local powder coating shop do the IM coating work. Will ask if it is a special coating. The phaser plate was used with existing cam timing assembly.
This is the site where I bought my plates (Stage III):
I just picked up a 07 E63 with 117k miles on the clock. The car is phenomenal and has exceeded my expectations in every way, to the extent that it's reignited my passion for cars. The previous owner wasn't able to tell me much about its service history and what has been done and what hasn't. The engine is very quiet at idle, the only thing you can hear are the injectors. I had a valve cover off to inspect the cams and the lifters and thankfully they looked great and show no signs of wear, but was disappointed to see it still has the old style head bolts.
My question is: would this car have made it to this mileage without the camshafts being replaced? Anyone out there going 150-200k miles without changing them? I know this has been asked a lot but it's hard to get a complete picture just based on previous posts since they are few and far between. It's hard for me to believe that someone would replace the cams without changing the head bolts too, so I believe that they are the original camshafts. The engine also rattles under light and medium load. I assume it's the cam sprockets but oddly enough they don't make any noise during startup.
I'm considering just replacing the intake cams, lifters, head bolts, and rebuilding the cam sprockets all in one go, but if I can put it off for a year or two (or forever lol) that would preferable.
Thanks in advance!
Congrats on the car. 117K miles is nothing for an M156.
Earlier cars would have the cams eat through the lifters, so replacing them with the superseded lifters (designed for the M159 and then scaled to the M156) will go a long way in keeping those mint cams healthy in the long run.
If the cams were replaced at some point, though, it's not hard to believe the head bolts were left alone. Keep in mind the dealer and many shops only follow the factory procedure of removing the heads, so it's much more work than just replacing cams.
Head bolts, hydraulic lifters and fuel injectors are the top priority items on the M156 since each can fail without warning and take the engine out in the process. Cam adjusters will give you plenty of warning, but are still one of those "while you're in there" items.
I guess that's true, most shops wouldn't be willing to do the bolts without taking the head off. Been taking the car out on a few trips and I'm still not convinced that the cam adjusters are bad. Even after sitting for three years the engine never rattled on startup. The only noise this engine ever makes is a rattle under moderate load, and I can make it stop by slightly letting off the pedal or hammering down. I'm assuming the pin is only there to hold timing without oil pressure during startup.
2011 E63 AMG, 2010 E550 (sold to father in law), 2010 BMW x5 48i
I have a 2011 E63 with over 183,000 miles. I bought it certified pre owned around 67K. It was the only CPO E63 with the M156 engine in the country that I could find back in January 2017. What an amazing car with a monster engine. It had the cams/lifters done under warranty around 80K miles. It also had the transmission replaced under warranty at that time. I had the front bumper and all 4 doors repainted to remove scratches, small chips, and a small dent at a dealer recommended body shop after some yahoo scratched and dented both drivers side doors in the hospital parking lot (still don’t know who did it!).
Along the way since then the engine mounts, thermostat, spark plugs, radiator, alternator, steering fluid reservoir, coolant tank thing, and some vacuum hose for reducing emissions on start up, have been replaced. Some sort of crank case or valve in the back of the engine was also replaced. The fuel sending unit had to be replaced after the car starting reeking like gas; cap under the rear seat on the fuel tank was leaking and both sides did it on separate occasions.
I also had the front suspension bushings and some metal bits/rods replaced and I noticed an incredible improvement in how smooth the car drives. I have a set of tires on there since then that have lasted almost 2 years which for me, is a long time on this car. I have found most rear tires last around a year and the fronts about 2 years.
I’ll have to look over service records to see if there were other things replaced over the years and get more specific details if anyone wants them. It has had all the regular oil/filter/fluid changes, and has had one set of front brake rotors replaced, 2 sets of rear rotors, and a bunch of pad replacements.
As of late my mechanic thinks I need a new intake manifold for a vacuum leak. I also have an oil leak. For awhile after it rained and I drove through a puddle, the drivers side headlight would work…but after a few days it is working without issue.
I have thought about selling it since I think it’s at the point of putting a lot of money into it again to keep it going. It still has incredible power and sounds like hell on wheels. I drive it hard everyday; it would be a shame not to since it is made to be driven. Every time I start it, it still excites me. The main problem is after driving this car for so long, I know that no other car will ever be as good all around. Another E63 is out of the question for me budget wise right now and probably long term since I won’t need as big of a car nor do I want such high running costs. What a mechanical marvel this thing is
I have a 2011 E63 with over 183,000 miles. I bought it certified pre owned around 67K. It was the only CPO E63 with the M156 engine in the country that I could find back in January 2017. What an amazing car with a monster engine. It had the cams/lifters done under warranty around 80K miles. It also had the transmission replaced under warranty at that time. I had the front bumper and all 4 doors repainted to remove scratches, small chips, and a small dent at a dealer recommended body shop after some yahoo scratched and dented both drivers side doors in the hospital parking lot (still don’t know who did it!).
Along the way since then the engine mounts, thermostat, spark plugs, radiator, alternator, steering fluid reservoir, coolant tank thing, and some vacuum hose for reducing emissions on start up, have been replaced. Some sort of crank case or valve in the back of the engine was also replaced. The fuel sending unit had to be replaced after the car starting reeking like gas; cap under the rear seat on the fuel tank was leaking and both sides did it on separate occasions.
I also had the front suspension bushings and some metal bits/rods replaced and I noticed an incredible improvement in how smooth the car drives. I have a set of tires on there since then that have lasted almost 2 years which for me, is a long time on this car. I have found most rear tires last around a year and the fronts about 2 years.
I’ll have to look over service records to see if there were other things replaced over the years and get more specific details if anyone wants them. It has had all the regular oil/filter/fluid changes, and has had one set of front brake rotors replaced, 2 sets of rear rotors, and a bunch of pad replacements.
As of late my mechanic thinks I need a new intake manifold for a vacuum leak. I also have an oil leak. For awhile after it rained and I drove through a puddle, the drivers side headlight would work…but after a few days it is working without issue.
I have thought about selling it since I think it’s at the point of putting a lot of money into it again to keep it going. It still has incredible power and sounds like hell on wheels. I drive it hard everyday; it would be a shame not to since it is made to be driven. Every time I start it, it still excites me. The main problem is after driving this car for so long, I know that no other car will ever be as good all around. Another E63 is out of the question for me budget wise right now and probably long term since I won’t need as big of a car nor do I want such high running costs. What a mechanical marvel this thing is
100k miles behind the wheel of the e63 sounds like heaven. I assume you have a radar detector and laser shifter lol.
It's good to hear that the major issues you had with the car haven't been recurring. What's also interesting is that I hear no mention of cam adjusters being replaced. You should keep it and see how far it goes. I've seen w211's go 400k+ miles. If you do decide to keep it you should have your mechanic pull the motor and replace all the seals and gaskets, for its age and mileage it's going to need an RMS soon.
Late to the thread. I have a 2007 e63 amg with similar mileage (I just rolled 114). Winter hit, so I got it in the air and dove in head first replacing the head bolts, buckets, right adjusters and right valve cover. I had originally rebuilt both adjusters on the right bank but over torqued the original bolts (which was moronic) and ended up just buying two new adjusters. The adjusters are the weak point, and I can second the photos of the plates. Headbolts were perfect and I wish that I hadn’t touched them. I think the YouTube’s/forums are making it a little bit of a bigger deal than it should be ~ especially since DIYing headbolts can lead to bigger issues with the gasket and/over over tightening/cracking the head. Can you do it yourself, absolutely, should you do it? Ehhh. You might open yourself up to a lot of pain if you don’t do it absolutely right. If I were to do it again, I would just change the coolant more often and keep an eye on the adjusters as they seemingly go quite often. The w211 will bring enough pain with the squeeky ball joins, engine mounts, front brembos and perpetually leaky valve covers. Lots of plastic parts that also seem to be made of glass…I swear it’s impossible to touch anything in that engine bay without some collateral damage….at least for me any my clumsy hands….
Late to the thread. I have a 2007 e63 amg with similar mileage (I just rolled 114). Winter hit, so I got it in the air and dove in head first replacing the head bolts, buckets, right adjusters and right valve cover. I had originally rebuilt both adjusters on the right bank but over torqued the original bolts (which was moronic) and ended up just buying two new adjusters. The adjusters are the weak point, and I can second the photos of the plates. Headbolts were perfect and I wish that I hadn’t touched them. I think the YouTube’s/forums are making it a little bit of a bigger deal than it should be ~ especially since DIYing headbolts can lead to bigger issues with the gasket and/over over tightening/cracking the head. Can you do it yourself, absolutely, should you do it? Ehhh. You might open yourself up to a lot of pain if you don’t do it absolutely right. If I were to do it again, I would just change the coolant more often and keep an eye on the adjusters as they seemingly go quite often. The w211 will bring enough pain with the squeeky ball joins, engine mounts, front brembos and perpetually leaky valve covers. Lots of plastic parts that also seem to be made of glass…I swear it’s impossible to touch anything in that engine bay without some collateral damage….at least for me any my clumsy hands….
Ain't it the truth though. Love your username BTW. Whenever I tear into these older vehicles I always stock up on all the little plastic and rubber bits because they disintegrate as soon as they've been touched.
My adjusters are locked up tight so I'm assuming it has been done already. I still have this mysterious rattle under moderate throttle, I've resigned to living with it. 3k miles and all I've had to do is change the o-ring on the dipstick and buy lots and lots of gas This thread has gone a long ways towards putting my mind at ease.
12-07-2023, 11:17 PM
This thread has gone a long ways towards putting my mind at ease.
