Improviz

Someone (forget whom) said that there aren't any CL55 owners in that area who frequent our CL55 board. It would be nice if one would show up and give APK the *ss whopping he so richly deserves, but it is a relatively rare car after all...

But you're falling into APK's trap: he's protesting that it isn't the same car so he can save some face when he gets smoked. The two cars have the same gearing, same motor (except that the CL55's is actually rated 24 horses higher, which he conveniently ignores), same transmission, same rear axle, same diameter and size of tires, same drag coefficient...only difference is about 180 pounds of weight, which the horsepower difference accounts for.

Which is why the CL55, SL55, and E55's numbers are all so similar...and APK knows this, which is why he's continually refusing to answer my question as to WHY he thinks the CL55 and SL55 aren't as fast, when test results plainly show otherwise.

APK1013

Tests may show whatever you say, but all I know is that basically stock e55's are running 12.0's. There is no stock CL55 that will run even close to that. If I am wrong, produce me a time slip that says otherwise.

APK1013

I gues I am not the only one that thinks so.

Improviz

Prove that a CL55 will NOT run a 12.0. I'm making the claim that it's as quick as an E55, and have provided data to prove it.

You, otoh, have repeatedly made a false claim, and have presented absolutely no evidence to back it up. Because you have none. And you know it. I don't have to prove you wrong; you have to prove you right!

I can't wait to see the videos of you getting ground into dust by the AMGs. Just remember that it's not a "70 year old lady" (as you put it) waving bye-bye to you from the AMG!!

Improviz

But unfortunately for you, the only instrumented test data we have shows otherwise.

Again: prove that a CL55 isn't as fast as an E55. YOU make the claim, YOU prove it.

And you still haven't answered my question: WHY do you believe this to be true? On what EVIDENCE are you basing this belief? You might believe that the sun rises at noon, but that hardly establishes it as a FACT.

Please, by all means: present your evidence. I'm waiting, and have been waiting for some time now. What have you got? Put it on the table!!

APK1013

I can prove it in the real world. I see 12.0 time slips from E55's, but nothing of the sort from the CL55. My friends were at the track and watched a Renntech CL55 run a high twelve. Produce me a time slip around 12.0 from a stock CL55, and I will agree that they are very comparable to the E55.

APK1013

By the way, you are the only guy claiming the E55 and the CL55 are exactly the same in speed. Oh, is this possibly because you don't own either car????

Improviz

For starters, your basing the capabilities of one car upon what your friends (supposedly) saw at a dragstrip is faulty logic: go to the E55 forum, where you will find plenty of guys who are *not* running 12.1's in their stock E55's. And yet we see that SGC ran a 12.1 in his. So, was the fact that other guys didn't hit this mark "proof" that it is not possible? NO.

Similarly, I went to the strip last fall, and a fellow was there with a stock 996 Carrera six speed. His best time of the night was a 13.9. And yet, we see from the car mags and from other owners' times that this car is a mid-13 car if driven properly.

So, your assumption is faulty. All this shows (assuming your story is real; more on that in a moment) is that some drivers are definitely better than others. If someone didn't know what he was doing, turned off his traction control, and romped it in a CL55, he could easily "only" hit a 12.9, because he'd be spinning his tires halfway down the track!

Furthermore, how did your friends know that this was a supercharged CL55, let alone that it was a Renntech model? Did they go interview the driver? Sounds kind of convenient...

As to a timeslip: hey, Einstien: wtf do you call an instrumented test result from Motor Trend, if not a timeslip?? Are you really this obtuse?? This is not rocket science, you know. Motor Trend tested the car at a 12.4, the same as they got in the E55. You are basically saying this test is a fabrication, a lie, which is a slander of one of the top three car magazines in this country, and I think it's laughable.

So, do you think that Motor Trend posted phony data? That they made it up? That they really didn't test a CL55 and all of those other cars during the speed shootout?

Similarly, you have said that the SL55 is significantly slower than the E55, despite my producing a test from Road & Track wherein the two cars were tested 0.1 apart from 0-100. So, were they lying too, APK? Did they fabricate their test data? Was there no test run?

Please, do tell...I'd love to hear exactly why it is that you believe that test data from two of the most respected car magazines in the country is false.

Improviz

Again, I ask: are you claiming that instrumented road test data from Motor Trend and Road & Track is not valid? Or was it fabricated?

What exactly is it you're stating or implying about those articles, APK? Why are they unreliable? Why would two of the best car magazines in the US publish false test data?

Please, by all means, answer. I might have to cancel my subscriptions!!

APK1013

I do believe what I read in those magazines, but some cars are known to run better or worse than what is printed in the magazines. The E55 just excels past those numbers. Don't ask me why this happens. I am just telling you by what I know from real life experience. DRCrowder and the guy that photographed my car both agree that the E55 will come out on top against the other 55K's. I wish we could get a CL55 or an S55 to run SGC so that I can prove my point. The only reason the E55's stepped to the plate is that they know that they are the fastest. I see more CL55's than E55's around here.

APK1013

The E55 is one of those rare cars that outdoes what it is supposed to do. It is a great car and I look forward to running one on Saturday. The truth is that the race against the C6 Corvette will be one of most important since he runs 12.5 regularly. If I can hang with him, I can also hang with a CL55 since it also runs mid 12's.

Jakpro1

CL 55 times from Dragtimes.com (one time is from Motor Trend Pro Driver)

12.400* 114.510 Mercedes-Benz CL55 AMG 2003 Motor Trend

12.710 117.020 Mercedes-Benz CL55 AMG RENNtech **notice RENNTECH** 2003 NA

Now.....the Beast.

11.804 118.350 7.604 92.210 1.730 Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG 2004 E55BEAST

11.986* 115.800 7.724 90.930 1.770 45.0 Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG 2004 dwtboss

12.007* 117.340 7.767 91.530 1.813 65.0 Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG 2003 SGC ***from our Beloved SGC***

Wouldn't say it's a blowout....but even??!!??

sadiq

APK1013- So what times are you expecting to run again? I know you may have said something about your times but I missed it. Trap Speed?

I honestly dont' think you stand a chance agaisnt any of the supercharged 55's but seriously if you beat a SL55 you should have no problem keeping up w/ a stock E55.
According to your orginal post about the race that got this whole thing started in the bimmer forum...... where the SL55 couldn't pass you as you guys were approaching triple digit speeds.
the fact is if this is true you shouldn't lose too bad to the E55.

stop worrying about the E55 blowing your doors off
M5 owners should be used to this


btw- sweet M5, my favorite color.

Improviz

Read pretty much any of the car mags' road tests: all of them point out that the cars' best times are traction-limited.

That the E55's are running lower times are not surprising, but you cite the Motor Trend test of the CL55. But have a look at this post of mine:

1) Road & Track tested the E55 and SL55 at 0.1 apart from 0-100;

2) Motor Trend tested the CL55 and E55 at less than 0.01 apart in the 1/4 mile.

I have no doubt that given sufficient traction and/or a good enough driver, any of these cars can get better times than the mags got. The thing is that there are a *lot* more E55's out there, and so we have track results for them, which we don't have for the CL...but we do have mag tests, and they show that with the same drivers, the cars are pretty equal. Think about it: the cars only weigh about 180 pounds apart. They have the same motor (although the CL and SL are rated about 24 horses higher), same gearing, etc...the rule of thumb in drag racing is roughly about 1/10 for each 100 pounds you add. So, just using this, assuming absolutely equal horsepower numbers only gives the E55 a 0.18 edge...less than two carlengths. Which means that if a stock E55 is capable of a 12.1, then a CL55 should be at worst able to hit a 12.28 or so.

I also have not seen any accounts of a head-to-head between the E55 and the CL55, so all I have to go on is the Motor Trend and Road & Track stuff (again, the SL55 weighs the most of the three, so they are all pretty close).

FLSL55

I predict you will be about two to three car lengths behind me in my Vette. I just sold my E55 and the Vette feels even faster. I know it isn’t but it does feel faster.

BTW I have a friend that has a Supercharged Cl55 and we just went to Moroso three weeks ago.

His best run was a 12.98 at 114.

He had traction problems. Maybe he will want to race you….I will email him.

APK1013

That would be great!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BenzoAMGpower

JR, i called u today but no1 picked up!!

FLSL55

OK,

My buddy with the CL55 said he would do it.

All we need now is a place and a time.

APK1013

great, benzo will let us all know!!!

APK1013

Thank you, that's all I asked for!!!

M&M

APK, I have to be honest here. You gonna' get stomped like a bug. Simple physics.

APK1013

We'll see about that. My car hasn't even been tuned yet by active. Why don't you stop the BS'ing and wait till tomorrow. Then we'll see who will be talking.

M&M

Hey I'm just giving my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong & you will win. I seriously doubt that, but anyway good luck.

APK1013

I'm not saying anything. All I know is that even if I lose, it will not be by enough to prove that I cannot hang with a CL55 if I get a good launch.

Improviz

Hopefully there'll be videos at each end of the runs (start and finish) so we can see both the launch and margin of victory for each race.

There *is* at least one person bringing a vidcam, isn't there? After all of this, it would be a shame not to get it on tape.

Oh, and M&M, be aware that APK is being a bad boy and running drag radials, even after repeated requests to remove them...but one of the E55s and the modded C32 will be running them in kind, however. Also be aware that APK isn't really much of a believer in physics.

Speaking of which: guys, please do some rolling-start runs as well, to eliminate launch from the equation!