vdubpower

Im sure vic has seen this but for those who havent
642 hp, i assume to crank with their tune.

http://germancarscene.com/2013/01/18...ge/#more-85385

AMG E Power

May the battles begin

NickE63

[QUOTE=AMG E Power;5511691]May the battles begin

I easily pull a stock M5 by 5 lengths a tuned one I haven't encountered yet, a M6 tuned I know of but we haven't had the opportunity to run yet, feel sorry for him when we do though!!!!!

mainly

[quote=NickE63;5512106]you might have a hard time with a tuned m6. their lighter than the e63 and probably not down much power. maybe even higher to the wheels?

i would like to see that race.

NickE63

I guess your right but we will have to wait and see, either way I don't care I'm getting sick and tired or this. I think I might just get a luxury car, the other day in drove my wife's brand new range and I was like wow this is sick, I'm bouncing around an avoiding bumps in my E63 and she's chilling in this.. Seriously made me consider getting a luxury car

AMG E Power

HP might be similar but, torque torque torque !!! The biturbo's are putting 720 rear wheel torque down so any weight difference will be evened out. PS keep the e63, range rover is down grade IMO. then again the newest one i have driven was a 2010 and it was breaking down left and right.

NickE63

are you serious? what kind of problems because ive owned a 2010 and no issues at all! did you beat on it how many miles did you hve on it?

AMG E Power

It was my younger brother's. It didnt have to many engine problems but, it was little gadgets going out all the time as in seat motors that kind of thing and then he dumped it.

thebishman

Stock the M5 is putting out about 620-640 at the crank. The Hartge tune would then be 642 at the wheels.
Bish

mainly

...Huh?

thebishman

BMW quotes the car as having 560 crank hp, but most dynos of stock M5s are showing about that much at the wheels, hence accounting for drivetrain loses it means that it has about 620-640 hp at the crank. So, if Hartge state their tune produces 642 hp, it would have to mean at the wheels, otherwise it's not making any more power than stock and is a complete waste of money.
Bish

mainly

you cant be serious. please tell me you're not serious.

thebishman

Explain in detail what about my statement you dont take seriously?
Bish

mainly

good lord.

first of all, no - the tune isnt 642 at the wheels. 642 whp would mean 700-750 at the crank, and that would not be possible without serious mods. its at the crank. the amg 5.5 biturbo cant even approach those numbers.

and second, do you honestly think BMW underestimated the cars power by 80 hp???

of all these dynos getting 500-530 whp, ( i havent seen one dyno of 560 WHP yet) id be more inclined to believe that THEY are over, than BMW's factory stated 560 is under (by 80 hp!! come on.. )


http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=626607 444 whp

534 whp

http://www.bimmerpost.com/tag/f10-m5-dyno-figures/ 527 whp

503 whp (m6)

vdubpower

wheres vic at?

thebishman

My thought exactly.
Bish

AMG E Power

Here is a biturbo with 626whp and 738TQ, so IMO I think it's possible for the f10 to get 600whp or more with a tune being the turbos are Slightly larger. I just don't think they will gain as much torque.

NickE63

Wow thats power!!

AMGTortoise

So 800hp/900ftlb using 18% drivetrain correction factor on a M157 pump gas, should look like this.

Vic55

Right here .... LOL

Dynos are great for comparos and perspective but there are just so many factors involving the date compilation and possible manipulation (not saying thats occurring just stating it can).

With that being said, my M5 stock dyno'd locally in Orange County with 537whp (SAE corrected). Mine was the highest on their dyno of 6 other F10 M5's which ranged from 5-teens to bottom 530. So even on the most liberal reading dynos the F10 M5 is underrated. Now we can all toss out drive train loss percentages but I dont think the DCT has 18 or 20% DT loss. Id say its much lower so if we guessed and said 13% I would be around 618 depending on you how you do the math. Do I have 618 at the crank? I dont think so as I have owned alot of 600 plus hp cars. Is my car faster than a stock E63 or CLS63PP- I would say so especially on higher speed runs up to and past 160mph. And my friend has raced a stock CLS PP at our recent airstrip runs (both stock) and he pulled by about 2 1/2 cars. I have owned 2 PP cars and now have a 2 S63tu engines (yes I got an M6 too the other day and its faster than the M5) . The S63tu engine is stronger in my owership experience.

Im not sure how Hartge is rating theirs (crank or whp) but 642 whp seems heavy to me. Im hearing the first few M5 tunes are coming out with nice bumps in hp of around 40-50 and tq gains upwards of 70 lb/ft. So I might get to 580 or 590 whp with a tune which is great for me. I want more hp and tq in sweet spots of the curve on the dyno. Peak numbers are relatively useless as we rarely reach and stay at those rpms for a long time. The M5 is the smaller displaced car with the bigger turbos.

Here are 3 dynos (all on different days so conditions were slightly off but close per the owner of the dyno)- 2 of them are my cars and the third is Vdubs... the owner at EAS did an overlay so you could see where each car peaks and how they run thru the sweet spots. One chart is via mph and the other via RPM. The M5 will start to pull in hp as the speeds get over 100 mph:

thebishman

Vic,
Thanks for the clarification.
What I was trying to get across; obviously poorly, was the following two points:
1: stock, the M5 is very underrated, and even using a low drivetrain loss %, it probably is averaging right at 600hp at the crank; and
2: if the Hartge tune states that it produces 642 at the crank, then it certainly isn't producing the claimed increase of 70 hp.

Whether a true increase of perhaps 40 hp is worth the price of the Hartge tune is up to the purchaser.

Thanks again,
Bish

Vic55

No I think you were clear... I wasnt really trying to address your points as you always have made sense in your posts. I was speaking more to the masses on the boards here.

YOu are 10000000000% right about the M5 and how underrated it is.

And you are right about the Hartge crank tune- its not a huge gain but Hartge is not hyper aggressive.

I did just get an M6 too, and its faster than my M5. Dyno coming.

thebishman

Let's see some pix of the M6. Would love to check it out.
Bish

vdubpower

m6??????? dayymm....why am i surprised...

you've been MIA here because u must be all over the bmw forums ( i dont even know which is the top bmw forum to even explore)

congrats...but i prefer a nice e24 m6....classic

lemme know when u goto eas for the dyno, id love to check it out...

Vic55

Not MIA, was out of town...

I prefer a faster more modern (much faster much more modern car) than an E24.