rory breaker

This is a good point. I owned the E for 2 yrs.....feels like a 600hp car to me for sure. The tesla is faster from a dig, and makes more power based in real world tests, there is zero question, but you're right about underrating and it should be applied to both.

TMC M5

Okay, one final try here. I will absolutely concede that the Tesla is the faster car from the dig. No question. I understand where you are coming from. I think your real point is that the Tesla makes more average power across the acceleration range.

For arguments sake lets say the E63 S and Tesla both make 600 peak horsepower. The Tesla at launch is making that same 600 peak horsepower and every inch of the 1/4 mile it is making that same 600hp. The E63 S on the other hand is launching at say 3.5K RPM where it is making roughly 410hp (that is assuming the 590 lbs-ft of torque rating from 2 to 4.5K RPM with 4% linear increase across RPM range to get to 600hp peak). The E63S doesn't make its peak horsepower until approximately 5.5K RPM so the E63S is at a severe disadvantage up to that point. RPMs seem to dip on each upshift to 4.5K RPM where the E63S is making approximately 525hp. So the power to weight ratio is still in favor of the Tesla until the E63S crosses approximately 5K RPM.

So yes the Tesla does make more average power, i.e. "power under the curve" across the acceleration range. But I believe that this also proves out that the E63 S must make more peak HP in order for it to dispatch the Tesla at higher speeds (unless the batteries are actually scaling back power after a certain speed).

otakki

It really depends on where you live. Where I live, it's 50-60 miles apart from town to town. I drive my car 10 days out of the month on average. Two of those days see 400+ miles per day. There is a person at my workplace who has a Tesla Model S. He lives at another town 60miles away and he mentioned the limitation is the range as he can't really drive to the any major metro areas due to the distance and lack of charging stations. Another limitation about EV is you can't keep on having fun accelerating and pulling because it will drain the battery in no time.

rory breaker

Not really true, unless you live truly in the middle of nowhere. Superchargers may be 50mi away, but chargers in general are everywhere. Public buildings, parking garages, McDonald's even. All over the place. You're right though, if you drive hundreds of miles a day, prob not convenient to drive a tesla.

As for not being able to keep having fun....not true. You can hammer the **** out of it constantly, everywhere, and still get 180+ easy.

gaspam

first, just because you own a car doesnt make you an expert on the car... the guy who started this thread, david kuo, owned a e63 and was one of the most uninformed forum members around lol, so lets not use ownership as a proof of expertise because my grandma owns a car and she doesnt know crap about it

data is data... we have dyno's for E63's and P85D/P90D... I deal in facts, rather than hersay you deal in... facts are there are no dyno's of P85D/P90D going over 500 whp... there are plenty of e63's over 500whp.... another fact, P85D/P90D are over 500 lbs more than a e63

here's some actual P85D (P90D wouldnt hugely different) dyno's as opposed to your hersay

http://www.dragtimes.com/Tesla--Mode...no-Sheets.html


in regards to you "line them up" comment... this has been done and there are e63s/M5/ RS7's that beat P85D/P90D from dig if you accept 1/8 mile race times as "from a dig", now if 0-30 mph is your version of "from a dig", then sure the tesla smokes them.... by 0-60, its close as tuned e63s/M5/ RS7's get pretty close to 3.0 sec.... after 60mph its over for the tesla

again, i have real world experience beating p85d and p90d from 60-100mph-ish on highway pulls and my e63 isnt "heavily modded" unless you consider tune/dps heavily modded lol

i have nothing against p85d/p90d , its a cool 5000 lb electric car that is exactly as fast as every other p85d/p90d on the road.... e63/rs7/m5, cant say the same as there are many that are faster then stock and many different degrees of fast depending on whats done to them and thats my original point as to why i never wanted a tesla.... its as fast as its ever gonna be straight off the dealer lot

and i agree there is no right or wrong decision on your car choice... i just disagree with your misinformation like this :

as i can give you a list of at least 1000 modded cars that smoke P90D to 100, which is bascially the 1/8th mile mark for the P90D.... hell there are over 200 mustang alone on dragtimes that have faster 1/8th mile times than the fastest tesla P90d times

perhaps if you said "stock only" cars then you wouldnt be spreading misinformation, but in the modded world, to 100, it will not eat most modded cars alive as you say

gaspam

by tesla dyno's its looks like the batteries do scale back as torque peaks and then falls fast

TMC M5

I don't think that is the case. They have somehow calculated "RPM". What you are seeing is horsepower remaining static and the torque dropping as the RPM increases. This is consistent with applying the formula "hp = (torque X RPM)/5,252". So if HP remains constant as RPMs increase, the torque figure has to drop. But it is still making the same HP.

PeterUbers

I like that a tesla can increase its output overnight with a firmware upgrade like many got with ludicrous mode ... For free

Wish benz would even let me pay Benz for an e63 tune that was 100% covered by the oem warranty

gaspam

that is because they are only showing the rear wheels horsepower which would make more sense, but the trq curve is really what we are looking at anyways as gets back to the "batteries do scale back as torque peaks and then falls fast" theory you proposed ... and looks like something along those lines (or other voltage difficulties) happening in that graph... torque peaks and scales back relatively quickly

there's a pretty good (and long) discussion on the tesla forums if you want to read thru all of it but for dyno comparison (albeit put together from data) of how tesla power delivery compares to a combustion engine/mulit-gear car's power delivery you can fast forward to the 9th page in the link below and about 3/4 of page down "SomeJoe7777" posted a pretty good post on the subject ... there are also quite a few people complaining about "passing speed from 50-70 or 60-80 being nowhere near as fast as competing sedans with a similar power to weight ratio. "

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forum...052.1471482987

Geno51

Ludacris mode is a 10k option not free. Go to teslas site to add it to a car cost 10 grand

kponti

Yep electric motors do not have rpm delta, dyno is only reading simulated horsepower via speed and assuming increasing rpm

TMC M5

That is exactly why I made the comment that they somehow calculated RPM if they are showing a torque curve. Although I am assuming that particular dyno is working like a Dynojet. I remember on three different dynos I couldn't get a torque reading on my old CL65 because they couldn't pick up the tach signal.

PeterUbers

I recall something about tesla owners getting and overnight upgrade... Certain owners at no cost..: but it turns out it was $5k for existing p85d owners to get ludicrous

And I would pay $10k for the best renntech tune if it was totally covered

TMC M5

Interesting review.

Geno51

Yes i would but 10k is a good chunk for a "tune"

I have a shop thats doing Borg Warner EFR turbos on my car over the next few months for that price . After that it will be tesla who ?

Mike450

The appealing part of the P90d for me is the stealth speed aspect. I have considered one based solely on that.

Blasting from 40-100 around someone is barely noticeable in the Tesla. I wake the entire neighborhood and scare the pants off who I am passing when I do that in my other car.

Shame they fall on their face north of 100.

Geno51

The coment that he makes at 2:50 explains why the tesla is still worthless :/

rory breaker

Except that he's wrong, because he "expects" but doesn't know.
Folks, stop reading the Internet and regurgitating "facts."

I've blasted around plenty and it's fine on the battery. Again, unless you need to drive more than 200 miles in a day, the battery comes into play zeeeero.

If you do need to drive further, the Superchargers are a breeze. You get out of the car, walk around a bit, stretch. Maybe grab a bite. Hop back in your car and roll. I chose to embrace that lifestyle, to loosen myself up a bit. So no, doesn't bother me one bit. The couple times a month I may have to do a 200+ mile drive, I add 40m to the ride, big deal.

Also, it's like your phone battery. Every now and then through the day you charge up. Home for lunch, great change up. Out shopping, oh wow, an ev spot, cool I'll charge. Etc etc.

These are the things you don't watch in a YouTube video or measure by car and driver magazine 1/4 times. This is reality, from an owner. Not speculation, not heresy, real.

This car has downsides I'm sure, but unless you really do drive that much every day, you're just brainwashing yourself. I know because I did, then shook it off and haven't looked back. Similar to what another poster said in this thread. Believe it or not.

Geno51

Actually your wrong and clearly just a fan boy. Lets do this you speed as much as you want and we will race from LA to NY i will do the speed limit lets see who wins. Waiting an hour for a car to charge on a road trip is not pratical at all. A 600 mile trip your adding 2-3 hours to a day trip. No thanks fan boy i will keep my car thats just as fast with none of the down falls . And dont act for one second that thay car is better for the environment.

gaspam

yeah instead dont read anything people, and research nothing.

is that you Kim Jong-un ?

TMC M5

I think we all have our own preferences. I had an '06 Jeep GC SRT8 which had a relatively small gas tank (it claimed to be 20 gallons but seemed smaller). If you drove it aggressively around the city you would not get out of the single digits gas mileage wise. I remember constantly keeping my eye on the fuel range and having to plan around filling it up at least 2 times a week. That was one of the biggest reasons I got rid of that SUV (that and the obscenely cheap interior).

I would not look forward to that kind of similar burden/worry again. It sounds like you have made it work for you, and that is great. I would probably revisits my thinking as the battery technology evolves and they build a more robust infrastructure for charging stations. And maybe when they start hitting under 2s to 60mph I will get past my need for exhaust noise.

rory breaker

You got it man

24Hours

Ditto... my next car might or might not be the AMG wagon again. Or it might be a Tesla... waiting for the Telsa insanity model.

But then again I only drive wagons, and I love the V8... hating my wife's LR4 V6SC.

LINKBXQ

My impression of Tesla. Note that my view is probably outdated since I test drove and consider one in 2014 and I was considering a P60 then.

I actually like the exterior look, interior I found to be nice too but not up to Mecerdes or other luxury car. I didn't care for 0-60, I mean I am buying an "environmentally" friendly car for normal commute in the city so 0-60 Tesla wasn't a priority, nyc traffic will never allow that anyway. To add I think it is kind of hypocritical to drive a Tesla and worry about 0-60, just doesn't seem to make sense to me. Well, anyway... Tesla = not interest in 0-60, in my case.

The reason why I decided against Tesla is the inconvenience factor for me. I only really drive 10-15 miles on most days dropping the kids off at daycare then taking the subway to work in Manhattan. So range wasn't an issue, the issue was charging for me. Yes there are lot of charging station but they are not all equip the same. Many parking lot have just one and it was anywhere from 30 minute to an hour back then, longer if there were car ahead of you. So most of the time the attendant ask you to leave the car and charge you a fee. Driving from home to work is about 15 miles but in traffic that 15 miles can take up to 1.5 hours, I can't help but think what kind of drain that would have been on the battery even though I am not driving hundreds of miles a day normally. That to me is very inconvenience. I know, charge at home and don't let battery drop too low. But that is a reason myself and many I know don't have a Tesla, we live in apartment/coop/condo that is woefully ill prepare for electric car and the building or board will not allow us to install charging station. So my lack of charging would lead me to run the car until it is low on battery before I look to charge again. I have my in law 2 blocks from me that has a house with a garage that I can install a charger in, but why would I want to drive to them everytime I want to charge my car. Again inconvenience.

A few times a month I have to go to DC or up to Boston and I do not want to plot my trip around charging station. My mother live upstate in Utica,NY about 5 hours from NYC. Where she is at, there were no station going her direct way. I would have to spend about 8 hours to get to her plotting my trip around charging station. Inconvenience.

On the test drive, because I didn't get the top of the line crazy speed model, I found it comfortable and enjoyable but boring. Felt like a Camry to me. Which is not a bad thing since I had 2 newborn and wife hates powerful fast car.

All in all, I wouldn't mind one but I really don't see it as the ideal car for major metro area due restricted living space and building/board not allowing you to install charging station. To be fair, it would look ridiculous to have a station out in the middle of a parking space expose to the environment. Not to mention how I can see someone hitting it when parking, yes NYC driver are that bad. I worry how long the lines will be at a charging station if more people have electric car, if the average time to charge a car is 30 minutes, and I have 10 cars ahead of me, that is half my work day gone just waiting.

Now my impression is a bit old. But unless someone can tell me how Tesla or any electric car company can install station and cut down charging time to compete with gas fill up to support millions in a big city where even pulling up to a gas station require a 5 to 10 minute wait sometimes, that all need to charge at once, or how we can have charging install in our own parking space in our coop/condo, I don't see myself getting a Tesla anything soon.

The car itself is great but would be such an inconvenience to my life.

Astolfo

really having to drive 20 or more miles out of your way then wait to get charged you must be a very busy man.
I owned on here in Seattle I live in Bainbridge and in winter as soon as I turn the heat on as soon as I don't drive like my dead grand mother I can barely get 150-170mi.


Let me see how this plays in my typical Friday. The car is charged go to work in Redmond, charge it again, leave work, pick my girlfriend in North Seattle go to Georgetown for a drink then to Bellevue to a restaurant then try to drive back to Bainbridge without telling my girlfriend....Honey I am sorry you what to show me you new sexy underwear but I need to stop to charge....
I own both of them and unless the Valet is an 18year old that wants to play with the screen on the T; the MB always, I mean ALWAYS, gets me home faster, my girlfriend warmer, with a LOT more compliments.
Yeah the T is a great car great technology but unless you do not get out of town, have a LOT of free time to detour to recharge and live in a warm climate T is not just practical yet.
just my $120K I have in the T