OrientBlue3

Haha weird. Noob here in that regard I guess. I looked up the video on how to activate it and I have no idea based on how you do it how I've never accidentally done this before at a light. I'll give it a try just for grins but definitely want a permanent solution. A manual TCU reset (hold down gas while key in on position for 5 sec, allow 2 min to reset), will clean up the problem some temporarily but that's the closest thing I've found to any improvement whatsoever at this point.

PeterUbers

https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w212/539386-unsafe-2014-amg-e63-s-about-send-lemon-law-letter-mbusa-2.html

OrientBlue3

Just another minor update.

I took the shop foreman for a ride in the car (cold motor) on Saturday and of course it did not happen. The good news is, I had several videos with timestamps for them to reference. I sent them to the foreman who is going to run some data today. He may send some logs up the chain to MB Corporate to look at the data using some of their proprietary tools they have that the dealership does not.

He said this is not a highly rare problem, but the re-adaptation of the wet clutch should have solved it and not made it worse.

Ironically, one light away from pulling it into the dealership to drop the car off the day before, I was toying with my newly learned "noob" hold function and I was stopped at a red light and already had the brake pedal depressed and as a result HOLD did not activate, however I did notice that as I eased off the brake pressure from full down to half or so, the clutch would engage and cause the idle blip. I literally was pumping the brake pedal and the problem was happening over and over while I was sitting at the light. I was giddy thinking ok, great I now have a concrete way to re-create this and I'll show it to my SA as soon as I pull in. I get there and no dice. It doesn't happen, won't replicate, nothing. I'm kicking myself now for not having video'd that because it was crazy to watch the idle dance up and down without my foot anywhere near the gas.

I hope to hear back from them in the next day or two for the first update. I will share any info I receive for those curious.

Thank you all for your support thus far.

OrientBlue3

Hi all,

Another small update. Got a bunch of questions from the shop foreman today about the tune. When I got it installed, if it did it before/after tune, etc. My car isn't under warranty, so it's not like they are trying to deny covering any repairs but still hard not to feel like they want to just blame whatever possible damage or issue may have occurred on the tune and call it a day since they can't replicate it despite it happening to me every single day when I start the car and when I leave work. It apparently only happens under these rare circumstances. Them starting and driving it around the dealership lot has not been able to re-create the problem. Hopefully my videos and timestamps of when the videos were filmed are enough for them to get to the bottom of this. I'm just ready for it to be fixed and move on.

OrientBlue3

Here's the email I received from the shop foreman tonight. Doesn't look good....

"We did hear back from engineering today. They are still analyzing the data but they suspect the issue is related to the tuning that was performed. The wet clutch is very sensitive to engine torque being accurate on CAN. If the engine torque is inaccurate or outside of the normal range, the clutch can only adapt so well to the variables it is given. When aftermarket companies tune the vehicles they use a backdoor which can remain unseen and unchanged, even when a factory flash is performed."

2012 merc amg

Kinda sounds like a load of BS to me, how many people have done tunes and we never hear of this issue? I guess worse comes to worse you could just replace the ECM, not sure how much those are? If that did not fix the issue you know then the guy was not telling the truth. I really wonder if there is something wrong in the trans with the clutch or something?

OrientBlue3

I asked if they were claiming there was a clutch failure or component issue and just got this response...

"Although we flashed the ME and VGS they suspect s/w from the tune is still affecting wet clutch operation. We've found no evidence of a component fault in the adaptation data."

PeterUbers

This dealership is not going to help you.

OrientBlue3

I certainly hope this is not the case. The car isn't under warranty, so there's no reason for them to not want to work on the car. They should have more results to share with me tomorrow. I did reach out to Jerry at EC to get his feedback.

2012 merc amg

How about the trans fluid? Were you able to have that checked? I kinda agree with the Peter though, that they are pissed that you had the car tuned and even in their own minds believe that has to the issue.

PeterUbers

Just because it's out of warranty doesn't mean this is a project they want to take on. I have seen some dealers go to bat for some customers and other dealers stop and tell customers they won't do any further work

How much money are you willing to spend to get this thing back to normal?

OrientBlue3

I don't want to make any assumptions on any of those points. I'm going to wait to see how this unfolds. I would be sorely disappointed if I can't drive the car tuned.

This was escalated to MB corporate/regional (not sure which party specifically but it is coming from above the dealership level). So if someone higher is telling them this info, nothing would change in my opinion by just going to another dealer. Also this is the dealer I've bought 5 cars from, so I figured of all dealerships this one would be the one I'd have the most clout with. They are also one of the largest AMG dealers in the country and have some of the facilities, for what it's worth.

Why would another dealer fight what comes from on high given that the people at corporate/regional have tools and resources the dealership does not?

Also, they did check the tranny fluid first. It was full and clean for those asking.

Here's some more info I just received as well...

"I suspect the tune may be at fault. It's possible adaptations in the fuel map have changed the driving characteristics. Usually if a component is worn or faulty we will see some sign.

We also contacted a shop that performs Renntech tunes. In their experience it can cause rough engagements on wet clutch MB's. They also said there are s/w protection devices that can be installed where a factory flash will not affect their tune. Different company but some insight nonetheless."

It's a shame really. I was only able to enjoy the car problem free for about 8 months tuned before this. If it cannot be resolved, I may just sell the car and move on.

I'll keep everyone posted as I hear more.

Thanks for your thoughts so far.

PeterUbers

Dealers are just different. I had a dealership that I didn't buy my 2014 e550 from help me with two buybacks of two e550's... And they dealt with the Same regional people

I'm not sure why that is, but it just happens sometimes; I didn't say to take it to another dealer just made a comment about differences

Clearly this is frustrating, hopefully this dealer you bought all these cars from and the Amg leading dealer will be able fix this problem

2012 merc amg

I'd find a good independent repair shop that specialized in MB's if I were in your shoes, that dealer you've been going to has been futzing around with the issue for way too long, if you get the right mechanic working on the problem, they may be able to figure it out pretty quickly.

sleeperZ96BT

First off, I want to thank you for sharing this with us.


Secondly - this is why I am so gun shy to tune my 2013 E550. The gains are intoxicating and I know that a majority have no problems but when people like you share the sh*t they are going through like you are it really makes me just want to say 'you know what, 400+hp is plenty enjoyable for my DD.' It also makes me 100% certain I will have the local guy do it IF I am ever tempted. What's most heartbreaking is watching people have downtime to ship PCM's back and forth, continue to incur costs, only to have the tuner, why doesn't have the car to evaluate, give their best guess.


I wish you the best of luck in determining your resolution. Keep us posted.

OrientBlue3

Thank you Sleeper.

I spoke with Jerry and he confirmed there is no clutch or transmission map in the ECU file and therefore the dealership cannot figure out the issue and wants to just blame the tune to cover up why they can't diagnose it. However, to their defense, they cannot replicate the problem I experience everyday, so I imagine it's hard to truly diagnose a problem when you can't replicate it and have to dig through the data for a solution. I gave them permission to have the shop manager drive the car overnight if they need to. I'm not interested in playing the blame game, I just want to be able to drive my car tuned. It had no issues for over 8 months this way and unless there's a component failure now, I have no idea why it should be any different now.

OrientBlue3

Hi all,

Final verdict is in. The dealer claims the EC tune manipulates torque values outside the acceptable range by the transmission, especially under cold starts (open loop) and the ECU/TCU is so sensitive to that, that it's causing my problem. Dealer claims the only way to solve the problem is to purchase an entirely new ECU. Definitely not happening. Going to send the ECU back to EC and most likely just drive the car until I can find a C63 S later in the year once the coupe releases and drives down the demand on the sedans. It's a shame because I enjoy the car but this experience and after 3 weeks in the shop, really makes me worry the car is ripe for a mechanical failure in the future. The fear of having to replace a wet clutch or tranny and the cost associated with that being out of warranty and dealer knowing about the tune I'm not sure worth the risk of owning the car long term. I'm still thinking it all over but that's my current thought.

I'm still shocked how more people aren't having this problem if what the dealer says is true. It makes me think it's BS but I don't want to have to deal with fighting this any longer, trying not to find another dealer and paying diagnostic fees/labor, etc.

2012 merc amg

I still don't understand why you are just taking the dealers word for everything like they are some kinds of gods or something. Here is a listing of independent MB Shops in your area, do a little research and find which is best for your needs. http://www.benzshops.com/near/dallas-tx/ Some dealers are really against tunes as they have seen them stress out other components of the cars and end up getting into arguments with customers who are under warrantee and feel something should be covered when the dealer feels it should not be, therefore developing a negative attitude about all tunes. Anyhow, if it were me I'd get somebody else to investigate the issue, might be more simple than you are thinking. Hard to believe your dealer could not replicate the issue if it's as bad as you say it is.

PeterUbers

How much has this cost you in diagnostics?

How much is the total bill for new ecu

sleeperZ96BT

Call me stupid, you wouldn't be the first, but if what the dealer says is true, a simple stock programming reflash would solve the problem. They are effectively stating that the aftermarket tune values changed outside an acceptable range, hence the issue. So change them back. Their rationale makes NO sense what so ever. They should be honest and just say 'we don't know what's wrong, so we'll blame the tune, and try and screw you out of buying a new ECU.' $10 says if you put in new said ECU that your issue would persist. They are grasping at straws.

OrientBlue3

Hi all,

I agree with all your posts that the dealer has no clue despite being the premiere dealer in this part of Texas. I was simply communicating what they told me and that I lack the desire after being without my car for 3 weeks to continue to try to solve the problem. It's annoying for sure but my main concern was mechanical failure of my clutch or transmission which they tell me is 100% not the problem after having checked for component failure/fluids levels, etc. first before they dug into the ECU values.

They escalated this to at least the regional rep level and had people at MB corporate look at the data. So my point is, if this was done and using more sophisticated equipment than even what the dealer has, why would another dealer or independent shop be able to tell me any different? Sure, they might, they might not. Either way, I'm out of my car again, have to pay whatever in diagnostic fees, labor, rental car etc. all for them to potentially tell me the same thing.

In their defense, the dealer did not want to push any repair down my throat. I was the one who actually suggested the new ECU to resolve their claim. They basically acknowledged they don't know what's wrong but the torque value exceeding the allowable tolerance and the transmissions sensitivity to that was their best guess.

The good news is this second trip to the dealer actually did not cost me anything. I was expecting to pay at least a $200 diagnostic fee but the foreman told me not to worry about it. The first trip was $350 to update the ECU (no TCU update available) and re-adapt the wet clutch. They did also say they've had this issue in the past with other cars (not necessarily tuned ones, he wasn't specific) and the re-adaptation of the wet clutch solved it in every case he had ever worked on.

I think they were actually pretty embarrassed they couldn't identify it. They even drove the car home overnight and could not replicate it despite me providing them 4 videos of it happening. It literally happens the worst on the first two complete stops I make after I start the car every single morning. I presume because the car is running in open loop at that time. Crazy to me it would not happen at the dealer or during the course of someone driving it overnight. I even came up there and drove it around their parking garage and it didn't happen then. I told the foreman I'd facetime him the morning after I get my car back and he can watch it happen live lol.

kponti

What were the symptoms of the E55 when it had oil contamination in the TCU? How close is it to yours? (I never had that problem but I know people did)

OrientBlue3

Hi all,

Just got the car back. Issue happened 2nd stoplight from the dealership on the way back, go figure.

Here's a copy of my work order for those wondering.

johnnyblaze

TCU Conductor plate? Its usually rough engagement and jerkiness. Not sure someone has mentioned that before in this thread. I'm not entirely sure this transmission assembly has it. I know the 7G and the 722.6/722.9 do.

kponti

Yes that! Usually throws a trans code though