gaspam

you realize that guy "dad's RS7" is the same guy that ran 10.1 @139 in a C63 in 2013 (dads c63) ?

3 yrs later, with custom setup that no one else can buy on RS7 with APR in the pits supporting him and having to cool down the A/W system with "dry-brake setup. When the car came into the pits, we could run the lines through the cooler to help cool down the a/w system before heading back out for more passes. " ... still running slower than his C63

Even, APR themselves said this car is maxed out without going to bigger turbos (like oleg in russia did, going from TT to single big turbo)

gaspam

lol no, as apr specifically said, they will not be making this as a kit or product, so its basically like a concept car at sema that you will never be able to buy... renntech's was a functioning kit you could buy and since then, an improved upon version (stage 2).... apr has no such thing available to the public... big difference


Originally Posted by nickrs7
can i get this upgrade too?

Arin@APR

Gotta buy the company.

kponti

Yes that is right. I remember Renntech also did something like this to the E63 back in 2013 and barely got faster than the tuned E63, went back to the drawing board and went with a more comprehensive turbo rework (yes I being facetious).

Also to prove that this was a preproduction setup which may be completely revamped (if they ever decide to build it 2-3 years down the line), dad's RS7 went slower with stickier tires!

kponti

Ok these are both one off cars you also cannot buy, it is fully customized to the extent of how much you wanna spend, that's how fast you can go.

Yas Marina track times are NOT one we can honestly go off off. Also the E63 does not have much info on mods, gas, etc etc except it ran a wickedly fast time at a dubious track

Mike450

You'd be much better off today, even on a stock trans.
A tuned NAG1 TCU up until about 6 months pretty much only controlled shift points. You needed a VB to raise solenoid pressure and there was no control over converter lock up.

That's all different now. The tuning available now allows even greater control over solenoid pressure in all gears, full torque limit controls, full converter lock up control, shift points, everything.

HPT opened up the entire TCU code no one had access to before. Again, I'm speaking from the SRT8 perspective which should translate directly to the NAG in E55's.

gaspam

lol so wait, let me get this straight, you mean renntech going from 130mph on stage 1 turbos in feb 2013, to going 136 mph on stage 2 (which you can buy) on april 2013 (2 months later) is considered barely faster to you? http://dragtimes.com/2012-Mercedes-B...ecs-25438.html

but APR RS7 going from 129 mph to 132 mph (what you can buy) in 2 years is super amazing ?ok sure, your logic works great

apr's orignal test car 129mph- http://dragtimes.com/Audi-RS-7-Timeslip-26316.html

current fastest apr car (that you can purchase parts and replicate) 132mph- http://dragtimes.com/Audi-RS-7-Timeslip-28334.html

gaspam

from what renntech told me is that the torque limits are raised with turbo upgrade... also read it on the boost site somewhere too... weistec does the same thing if you buy their bullet proof transmission and ask them to...

thing is, to my knowledge, no one that is on the forums has bought a renntech stage 2 turbo kit as everyone complains about price (at 20K even i might complain a little- reason why im probably gonna go with AMS or powerhaus performance turbo upgrade)

kponti

Logic gets flawed when you lose track of what you are comparing.
I first stated that upgrading the turbo is not something I would consider in a 4500lb car MB or Audi period. So all your arguments bringing in modified turbos and whatnot is really irrelevant here.
Second thing is Renntech modified the stock turbo, barely beat their own tune only car (look at the damn video I linked!!!), went back to the drawing board and offered a better solution. APR came out with a one off stock modified turbo (in April 2016, yes that was less than 2 months ago) that barely went faster than their own tune only cars. Just like Renntech, I am betting they are back at the drawing board redesigning this based on initial results. And if the market dictates they will sell, there will be better turbos offered in the future
You even acknowledged they stated you will need larger turbos to go faster.
How's that for logic???

On the subject of Renntech, I still do not care what their upgraded turbos put out. This thread has never been about the absolute max (turbo upgrades etc) you can get out of these cars, you brought that up. It has been about what you can get with a box tune and I compared to the APR RS7s that are getting mid 10s at 129-133mph vs the typical 11.0-11.5 @126-129mph on the M157s. I do believe the the M157 is capable of the times by the RS7 et al if the tcu can be tuned.

kponti

^^^ In case your idea of my logic is still confusing you let me spell it out. This is APRs first foray into modified turbos for the 4.0 platform, yes they are years late to their own party but who cares? They made the same mistakes Renntech and currently Weistec made.
Maybe they will offer better solution, maybe not, I really do not care.
Is there more in the OPs car, YES IMO. Can there be more with his current tune, YES again IMO. I am sure a tcu tune can help OP (and me) get closer to the APR RS cars because contrary to all the irrelevant modified and aftermarket turbo comparisons you have posted, the M157 is not at the level of the 4.0 TFSI box tune to box tune stock turbos. Hell even the the F10 M5 are starting to do better and better each month

gaspam

yeah i saw the video... renntech modified stock turbo with just one wheel.. that didnt work, so added outlet wheel change too, that worked and increased MPH +6 in 2 months.... (modification from Garret to the existing turbos, so same thing APR did).... now unless APR comes out this month (135 mph was in april) with big increase in MPH from their original go then your logic is still flawwed....

not to mention APR said they are maxed out on stock turbo housing! what dont you get? renntech on stock housing with wheel upgrades is 136MPH 3yrs ago, APR on stock housing w/wheel upgrades and maxxed out is 135mph

lol and your the one that brought up APR RS7s, not me, when i was talking about torque multiplication

kponti

What don't you get about comparing TUNE VS TUNE, who cares about modified turbos in this???

And yes the case still applies here, torque multiplication applies to both tuned E63 and tuned RS7. BTW you cannot simply multiply the torque to the gear ratio to determine how much torque a transmission can handle, that is completely WRONG. That was my point

gaspam

i am convinced you have never seen a RS7 in real life now, let alone race one in real world street pulls, or maybe your car is just slow

again tuned RS7's on 93 oct arent trapping over 128... same as M157.

i have raced my buddies M5 F10 tuned with meth/dps and tuned RS7, and on highway pulls from 60 we both pull away form the RS7 and the M5 starts to pull on me at 90+ and walks away

tell ya what, buy a RS7, get your tune and we can meet and do 3 street pulls (60-120), whoever loses 2/3 buys the winner a slurpie at the 7-eleven where all the ricers in their 7sec evos can admire our 10sec cars

gaspam

lol no one said torque multiplication determines what a tranny can handle... one member simply stated the facts of torque multiplication and i agreed and said most people forget about that, and that is why manufactures limit torque electronically, and then you came in talking about how much harder audi rs7 launches blah blah blah

kponti

No I have not raced them on the street, just seen a couple at the track yep 130 and 131mph. But better yet, 10.6-10.8 quarter mile. Showing that the so called 2000+ft-lbs of torque did not explode the trans rated at ~600ft-lb

gaspam

130-131 is race gas... i thought you wanted apples to apples, street gas TUNE vs street gas TUNE ? (audi's can run multiple tune files, we cant, so running 104 oct tune vs 93 oct tune isnt apples to apples)

kponti

These were 93 octane right in front of my eyes!!! Track only had 109 leaded, he did not want to run leaded gas

Also show me ONE Renntech tuned E63 race gas or not coming anywhere close to 130+mph
https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...hp-710wtq.html

kponti

................

gaspam

interesting, he's faster that the fastest tune only guy on drag times and on the audizine by like 4mph for 93 oct since everyone over there is impressed by 127mph traps on 93oct, but what do they know over there, everyone knows the Audi experts are all on mbworld

start here and report back.... as you can see most RS7 tune pump gas guys are <128....

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-Thread/page13

btw, here are dads rs7's results from when he was tune only on 93oct (the guy with the fast rs7 in the states now that he has the upgraded turbos).. again keep dreaming if you think you are gonna slap a tune on rs7 and blast traps of 130's

gaspam

here you go 130.89 renntech tune e63 http://dragtimes.com/Mercedes-Benz-E...lip-26214.html

and this one not e63 but same motor, same weight basically....here you go 130.77 (also why you limiting to renntech E63 anyways? cherry picking data? there are other M157 tuners that have gone fast(ams did 129 on tune pump gas), and i never mentioned renntech was the fastest... however APR is the fastest in the RS7 usa market)

http://dragtimes.com/Mercedes-Benz-C...lip-24569.html

kponti

Yes I am cherry picking because Renntech have had the fastest times I have ever seen for the M157 (the reason I chose them). AMS I really have not seen much from them except their shop car @129mph. The rest have not shown up much

gaspam

I'm an audi fanboy and would love for audi to have some 4 door unicorn that smokes all other german 4 door muscle on the street, but they just dont, they are on par with amg and M cars

kponti

Ok Ok I'll concede that. I forgot about the shop Renntech CLS that trapped that high
One thing, you can NOT get that tune from Renntech again. I begged and pleaded and they wouldn't. So its a tune you can't buy anymore

kponti

http://dragtimes.com/Audi-RS-7-Timeslip-27127.html

http://dragtimes.com/Audi-RS-7-Timeslip-26450.html


http://dragtimes.com/Audi-RS-7-Timeslip-27862.html

All at or above 130mph with no race gas

gaspam

sorry, those are all race gas and they are on the audi forum.. the 130.49 (Akh23456) is post #433 stating race gas... he also ran 157mph in the 1/2 mile... pretty much what a M157 does on tune
Efi 133mph is definitely on race gas (he has 100 map and 104 map so not sure which one he is on though)


pump gas record is sciblades at 129 mph see post 378 in link below

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-Thread/page10

kponti

You left out this part on the timeslips