W212 AMG Discuss the W212 AMG's such as the E63
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

M5 under rated

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Rate Thread
 
Old 07-17-2016, 07:26 AM
  #1  
Member
Thread Starter
 
LJMartin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 165
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
2010 E63 AMG
M5 under rated

Just read and article that said road and track reports that the current M5 has been rated by independent dyno tests that rated it at 620 horses.
Old 07-17-2016, 11:36 AM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
Geno51's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 254
Received 42 Likes on 35 Posts
E63 amg s
Originally Posted by LJMartin
Just read and article that said road and track reports that the current M5 has been rated by independent dyno tests that rated it at 620 horses.
They said the same thing about the e63s
The following users liked this post:
LJMartin (07-18-2016)
Old 07-17-2016, 12:30 PM
  #3  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
kponti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,369
Received 218 Likes on 179 Posts
E63
Why all these M5 threads? It is a great car, better than the E63 in a lot of aspects worse than the E63 in a lot of other aspects
Old 07-17-2016, 12:45 PM
  #4  
Out Of Control!!
 
PeterUbers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,985
Received 2,143 Likes on 1,501 Posts
2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
Interesting

This magazine thought otherwise in 2014

Wait till the x drive m5 comes out ...

Old 07-17-2016, 01:23 PM
  #5  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
TMC M5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,895
Received 52 Likes on 45 Posts
'14 E63S & '14 Audi SQ5
Not to stoke another E63 S vs M5 debate...but most M5 dynos on Dynojets were in the 520-540 range. The E63 S dyno in the same range on Dynojets. When you factor that the E63 S has an inherently less efficient drivetrain (more parasitic loss), it must make more crank HP than the M5. So even if the M5 is underrated (which it is), the E63 S is even more underrated.
The following users liked this post:
Zod (07-18-2016)
Old 07-17-2016, 01:28 PM
  #6  
Super Member
 
efiftyfizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 956
Received 35 Likes on 27 Posts
W212 E63 AMG S Model
Originally Posted by TMC M5
Not to stoke another E63 S vs M5 debate...but most M5 dynos on Dynojets were in the 520-540 range. The E63 S dyno in the same range on Dynojets. When you factor that the E63 S has an inherently less efficient drivetrain (more parasitic loss), it must make more crank HP than the M5. So even if the M5 is underrated (which it is), the E63 S is even more underrated.
Sick of people and their dyno claims
Old 07-17-2016, 01:41 PM
  #7  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
TMC M5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,895
Received 52 Likes on 45 Posts
'14 E63S & '14 Audi SQ5
Originally Posted by efiftyfizzle
Sick of people and their dyno claims
The thing is that people have to look at the type of dyno and understand the context of the numbers. You can't directly compare results from a Mustang dyno to a Dynojet. Or even a Dynapack dyno to anything else. Even how the dynos are calibrated (especially if using STD correction on a Dynojet) can make it difficult to compare the same brand of dyno. They are best used to compare before and after mods but the conditions can still be manipulated if the dyno operator wants to skew things intentionally.
Old 07-17-2016, 01:46 PM
  #8  
Super Member
 
efiftyfizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 956
Received 35 Likes on 27 Posts
W212 E63 AMG S Model
Originally Posted by TMC M5
The thing is that people have to look at the type of dyno and understand the context of the numbers. You can't directly compare results from a Mustang dyno to a Dynojet. Or even a Dynapack dyno to anything else. Even how the dynos are calibrated (especially if using STD correction on a Dynojet) can make it difficult to compare the same brand of dyno. They are best used to compare before and after mods but the conditions can still be manipulated if the dyno operator wants to skew things intentionally.
Exactly, but people don't understand that and then make threads here. Dyno numbers are not standardized and I'm not sure if anything is really considering the performance of a car relies on many factors. Only way to compare is same time, same conditions, etc.... If you don't have those then don't bother making comparisons.
Old 07-17-2016, 01:56 PM
  #9  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
TMC M5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,895
Received 52 Likes on 45 Posts
'14 E63S & '14 Audi SQ5
Originally Posted by efiftyfizzle
Exactly, but people don't understand that and then make threads here. Dyno numbers are not standardized and I'm not sure if anything is really considering the performance of a car relies on many factors. Only way to compare is same time, same conditions, etc.... If you don't have those then don't bother making comparisons.
Not to get too far off topic...but as I mentioned in another thread, I don't bother doing dynos anymore. A great dyno run may not translate to a strong running car out in the real world. There may be torque limiters in the TCU preventing the car from shifting properly/quickly, so although it might put down huge power in a single gear, it could be at the detriment of actually producing quicker overall times. I found this on a couple of my cars. I could see the delays on my vbox graphs and went back to the tuners to help. You probably wouldn't see that on your typical dyno.
Old 07-17-2016, 02:11 PM
  #10  
Out Of Control!!
 
PeterUbers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,985
Received 2,143 Likes on 1,501 Posts
2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
Originally Posted by TMC M5
Not to get too far off topic...but as I mentioned in another thread, I don't bother doing dynos anymore. A great dyno run may not translate to a strong running car out in the real world. There may be torque limiters in the TCU preventing the car from shifting properly/quickly, so although it might put down huge power in a single gear, it could be at the detriment of actually producing quicker overall times. I found this on a couple of my cars. I could see the delays on my vbox graphs and went back to the tuners to help. You probably wouldn't see that on your typical dyno.
Very interesting
Old 07-17-2016, 02:25 PM
  #11  
Super Member
 
efiftyfizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 956
Received 35 Likes on 27 Posts
W212 E63 AMG S Model
Originally Posted by TMC M5
Not to get too far off topic...but as I mentioned in another thread, I don't bother doing dynos anymore. A great dyno run may not translate to a strong running car out in the real world. There may be torque limiters in the TCU preventing the car from shifting properly/quickly, so although it might put down huge power in a single gear, it could be at the detriment of actually producing quicker overall times. I found this on a couple of my cars. I could see the delays on my vbox graphs and went back to the tuners to help. You probably wouldn't see that on your typical dyno.
Yup, especially on this platform. The upgraded turbo cars are not running much better times (1/4 mile) than the bolt on cars but the dynos would lead you to believe otherwise.
Old 07-17-2016, 02:33 PM
  #12  
Out Of Control!!
 
PeterUbers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,985
Received 2,143 Likes on 1,501 Posts
2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
Originally Posted by efiftyfizzle
Yup, especially on this platform. The upgraded turbo cars are not running much better times (1/4 mile) than the bolt on cars but the dynos would lead you to believe otherwise.
Yeah it's interesting some guys will have a renntech tune and stock 1/4 about 11.6-11.8 but with the tune that gives them 100/150 extra hp/tq ... Will run 11.3-11.6

...but the roll acceleration is more impressive (lol, I know ... Here we go again) ... With very impressive 60-130mph improvements... But the tcu doesn't limit the engine at those speeds -- right?
Old 07-17-2016, 02:38 PM
  #13  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
otakki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,462
Received 54 Likes on 50 Posts
FF. W212 E63 M156 non-pano 18" P2 ParkT NightV (gone but will be missed).
So is the new M5 going to again channel engine/exhaust sound out of their speakers?
Old 07-17-2016, 05:21 PM
  #14  
Super Member
 
efiftyfizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 956
Received 35 Likes on 27 Posts
W212 E63 AMG S Model
Originally Posted by PeterUbers
Yeah it's interesting some guys will have a renntech tune and stock 1/4 about 11.6-11.8 but with the tune that gives them 100/150 extra hp/tq ... Will run 11.3-11.6

...but the roll acceleration is more impressive (lol, I know ... Here we go again) ... With very impressive 60-130mph improvements... But the tcu doesn't limit the engine at those speeds -- right?

It's not about the speed, it's the gear. The torque limitations are in the lower gears (definitely 1st and maybe 2nd too) and that's why these cars can't cut good 60' times.
Old 07-17-2016, 06:57 PM
  #15  
Out Of Control!!
 
PeterUbers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,985
Received 2,143 Likes on 1,501 Posts
2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
Originally Posted by efiftyfizzle
It's not about the speed, it's the gear. The torque limitations are in the lower gears (definitely 1st and maybe 2nd too) and that's why these cars can't cut good 60' times.
Why couldn't they dial down the tcu a bit to get better "out of the hole" performance?

Too much on the stock drivetrain?
Old 07-17-2016, 07:30 PM
  #16  
Super Member
 
efiftyfizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 956
Received 35 Likes on 27 Posts
W212 E63 AMG S Model
Originally Posted by PeterUbers
Why couldn't they dial down the tcu a bit to get better "out of the hole" performance?

Too much on the stock drivetrain?
The tcu is locked/encrypted. They can't touch it.
Old 07-17-2016, 07:51 PM
  #17  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
vdubpower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: OC
Posts: 6,260
Received 54 Likes on 42 Posts
i drive them all, fast and hard
everyone knew this when people were dyno ing them in 2013.....its still a pig and drives weird....feels like a 7 series and has fake *** exhaust noise

on eas youtube page they have a bunch of dyno runs of what it was putting out
Old 07-17-2016, 08:30 PM
  #18  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
gaspam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: miami / delray beach
Posts: 2,841
Received 202 Likes on 155 Posts
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
Originally Posted by TMC M5
Not to get too far off topic...but as I mentioned in another thread, I don't bother doing dynos anymore. A great dyno run may not translate to a strong running car out in the real world. There may be torque limiters in the TCU preventing the car from shifting properly/quickly, so although it might put down huge power in a single gear, it could be at the detriment of actually producing quicker overall times. I found this on a couple of my cars. I could see the delays on my vbox graphs and went back to the tuners to help. You probably wouldn't see that on your typical dyno.
yup, i used to get the 3rd gear shift pause in my e55 once i started putting down bigger power... it was the tcu but was able to get the tcu tuned which fixed it

Last edited by gaspam; 07-17-2016 at 08:34 PM.
Old 07-17-2016, 08:34 PM
  #19  
Out Of Control!!
 
PeterUbers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,985
Received 2,143 Likes on 1,501 Posts
2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
I guess what I'm saying is why wouldn't benz dial the TCU down for more aggressive performance?
Old 07-17-2016, 08:38 PM
  #20  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
gaspam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: miami / delray beach
Posts: 2,841
Received 202 Likes on 155 Posts
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
they probably did... to the point to where they thought it was aggressive enough while still not having any tranny replacement within warranty period
Old 07-17-2016, 10:18 PM
  #21  
Super Member
 
efiftyfizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 956
Received 35 Likes on 27 Posts
W212 E63 AMG S Model
Originally Posted by gaspam
they probably did... to the point to where they thought it was aggressive enough while still not having any tranny replacement within warranty period

Exactly... They probably didn't want to go through what Nissan did with the GTR when people were destroying their transmissions with launch control.
Old 07-18-2016, 07:55 AM
  #22  
Member
Thread Starter
 
LJMartin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 165
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
2010 E63 AMG
Sorry guy's didn't mean to start a war. I just thought the article was interesting. I came from a N/A M5. Loved the sound of the V10. When modified the MB exhaust sounds good too but in a different way. The 1-2 shift on the M5 was brutal. The first time I did a full throttle shift I thought I had dumped the rear end in the middle of the road. The Benz seems to rev faster than the M5 as I still find it hard to keep it off the rev limiter. Could be my reflexes are slowing down. All and all I find the Benz to be a much better daily driver than the M5. That could be because I'm getting older too.
Old 07-18-2016, 09:01 AM
  #23  
Zod
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Zod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kuwait
Posts: 2,597
Received 19 Likes on 16 Posts
CLS55 2006, CLS 63S 2015
Originally Posted by gaspam
yup, i used to get the 3rd gear shift pause in my e55 once i started putting down bigger power... it was the tcu but was able to get the tcu tuned which fixed it
omg I have this as well, but not every time. Who did your TCU?
Old 07-18-2016, 10:08 AM
  #24  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
gaspam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: miami / delray beach
Posts: 2,841
Received 202 Likes on 155 Posts
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
Originally Posted by Zod
omg I have this as well, but not every time. Who did your TCU?
jerry at eurocharged
Old 07-18-2016, 11:21 AM
  #25  
Out Of Control!!
 
PeterUbers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,985
Received 2,143 Likes on 1,501 Posts
2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
That's it.... I'm getting an M5


You have already rated this thread Rating: Thread Rating: 0 votes,  average.

Quick Reply: M5 under rated



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:54 AM.