Achieving max boost 14.5psi (stock)?
#27
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E63 SL55 996TT C5Z06
that was my first reaction..23.5 seems way high. my dashcommand app has a PID for measuring boost and its never read above 14psi.....it may not be configured correctly or something if others are getting 18psti. dashcommand also logs 0-60 times and i've recorded several 3.7 and 3.6 runs with it being stock so seems the performance is where it should be but the boost readings arent correct or something on my end...?
#28
Actually the stock turbo can handle up to 29psi of boost. All that is control by the ECU. I'm good friend with DME Tuning. With Air filter and spark you can run safely 23.5psi. I have that running right now. With Down pipes you can boost up to 29 pounds. You will also need to Advance timing by 6 degrees. Each degree you will gain about 18-20hp and with 1 pound you will get about 27-35hp. If anything you guys can DM me for more info.
#30
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2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
^ the chart/compressor map is for what that the compressor/turbine/housing can handle/produce given compressor/ turbine size and housing a/r..... doesnt matter what you do to ecu/ timing/ fuel/ spark...... only thing that can change the compressor map is by physically changing the compressor/turbine wheel/ turbo housing (i.e. turbo hardware changes)
saying changing ecu/ timing/ fuel/ spark will change compressor efficiency map is like saying saying it will also change the engine's piston size
saying changing ecu/ timing/ fuel/ spark will change compressor efficiency map is like saying saying it will also change the engine's piston size
Last edited by gaspam; 05-09-2017 at 12:28 AM.
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jvakos (05-09-2017)
#31
^ the chart/compressor map is for what that the compressor/turbine/housing can handle/produce given compressor/ turbine size and housing a/r..... doesnt matter what you do to ecu/ timing/ fuel/ spark...... only thing that can change the compressor map is by physically changing the compressor/turbine wheel/ turbo housing (i.e. turbo hardware changes)
saying changing ecu/ timing/ fuel/ spark will change compressor efficiency map is like saying saying it will also change the engine's piston size
saying changing ecu/ timing/ fuel/ spark will change compressor efficiency map is like saying saying it will also change the engine's piston size
#32
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2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
while some go by chart and never get a chance to even test it out just only know by looking at the chart and stand by the chart and will say and stand by there chart. Lol. While other that actually done things and seen massive gains on there own build that they have spent money on will be told by a person who stand by there chart.
cant wait to see your results, especially when you turn up the boost to 29 psi that you previously said stock turbos can do
who needs a pureturbo/ gad kit running 25-27 psi when we can now do 29 psi on our stock turbos phew phew
Last edited by gaspam; 05-09-2017 at 10:32 AM.
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jvakos (05-09-2017)
#33
MBWorld Fanatic!
OK bumping an old thread....Hopefully you guys can help me identify the issue.
So I have just started playing with my 100% stock 2014 e63s. I have been using Dragy and HPTuners MPV12 to begin gathering stock data and so far I am disappointed. (FWIW, my e63s has felt about the same as my highly modified e55.)
According to Dragy my 0-60 using RS (adjusted 1 ft) are ~3.6. Non adjusted 0-60 mph are ~3.8-4 seconds. Quarter mile are ~117 mph. Non- RS starts, just mashing the throttle is ~3.8 0-60 1 ft adjusted and ~4 - 4.10 non-adjusted. So my initial thoughts have always been, the launch is no where near as violent as it should be (with 500+ ft lbs of torque and all wheel drive) and the turbos just don't feel like they are hitting. Well the first few logs with the MPV12 seem to validate that and peak boost appears to be ~12.5 - 13.5 psi range, not the 14.5 to 18 psi I have read about.
So what are the things I should look at that could be causing my boost levels to be off?
1. Do people test for boost leaks on the e63 / e63s platform like they do on every other ? (maybe I have a small leak ??)
2. Does the ECU detect crappy gas (CA 91) and say "oh no you don't" and limits boost? If so, is an easy test to run race gas or do you need to reset ECU somehow?
3. Is there an easy way to log knock sum and determine if that could be the culprit?
4. Also I noticed my throttle position is ~ 80% max (when it should be 100%)
3. Has anyone validated the MAP and tune screw up (referenced in this thread)? Can the dealer verify if the car has a proper tune?
4. My car is still under extended warranty, should I just take into the dealer and say "my car is off and not hitting advertised boost" with the hopes of getting new parts ?
5. Any other suggestions? Thanks in advance
So I have just started playing with my 100% stock 2014 e63s. I have been using Dragy and HPTuners MPV12 to begin gathering stock data and so far I am disappointed. (FWIW, my e63s has felt about the same as my highly modified e55.)
According to Dragy my 0-60 using RS (adjusted 1 ft) are ~3.6. Non adjusted 0-60 mph are ~3.8-4 seconds. Quarter mile are ~117 mph. Non- RS starts, just mashing the throttle is ~3.8 0-60 1 ft adjusted and ~4 - 4.10 non-adjusted. So my initial thoughts have always been, the launch is no where near as violent as it should be (with 500+ ft lbs of torque and all wheel drive) and the turbos just don't feel like they are hitting. Well the first few logs with the MPV12 seem to validate that and peak boost appears to be ~12.5 - 13.5 psi range, not the 14.5 to 18 psi I have read about.
So what are the things I should look at that could be causing my boost levels to be off?
1. Do people test for boost leaks on the e63 / e63s platform like they do on every other ? (maybe I have a small leak ??)
2. Does the ECU detect crappy gas (CA 91) and say "oh no you don't" and limits boost? If so, is an easy test to run race gas or do you need to reset ECU somehow?
3. Is there an easy way to log knock sum and determine if that could be the culprit?
4. Also I noticed my throttle position is ~ 80% max (when it should be 100%)
3. Has anyone validated the MAP and tune screw up (referenced in this thread)? Can the dealer verify if the car has a proper tune?
4. My car is still under extended warranty, should I just take into the dealer and say "my car is off and not hitting advertised boost" with the hopes of getting new parts ?
5. Any other suggestions? Thanks in advance
#34
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2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
OK bumping an old thread....Hopefully you guys can help me identify the issue.
So I have just started playing with my 100% stock 2014 e63s. I have been using Dragy and HPTuners MPV12 to begin gathering stock data and so far I am disappointed. (FWIW, my e63s has felt about the same as my highly modified e55.)
According to Dragy my 0-60 using RS (adjusted 1 ft) are ~3.6. Non adjusted 0-60 mph are ~3.8-4 seconds. Quarter mile are ~117 mph. Non- RS starts, just mashing the throttle is ~3.8 0-60 1 ft adjusted and ~4 - 4.10 non-adjusted. So my initial thoughts have always been, the launch is no where near as violent as it should be (with 500+ ft lbs of torque and all wheel drive) and the turbos just don't feel like they are hitting. Well the first few logs with the MPV12 seem to validate that and peak boost appears to be ~12.5 - 13.5 psi range, not the 14.5 to 18 psi I have read about.
So what are the things I should look at that could be causing my boost levels to be off?
1. Do people test for boost leaks on the e63 / e63s platform like they do on every other ? (maybe I have a small leak ??)
2. Does the ECU detect crappy gas (CA 91) and say "oh no you don't" and limits boost? If so, is an easy test to run race gas or do you need to reset ECU somehow?
3. Is there an easy way to log knock sum and determine if that could be the culprit?
4. Also I noticed my throttle position is ~ 80% max (when it should be 100%)
3. Has anyone validated the MAP and tune screw up (referenced in this thread)? Can the dealer verify if the car has a proper tune?
4. My car is still under extended warranty, should I just take into the dealer and say "my car is off and not hitting advertised boost" with the hopes of getting new parts ?
5. Any other suggestions? Thanks in advance
So I have just started playing with my 100% stock 2014 e63s. I have been using Dragy and HPTuners MPV12 to begin gathering stock data and so far I am disappointed. (FWIW, my e63s has felt about the same as my highly modified e55.)
According to Dragy my 0-60 using RS (adjusted 1 ft) are ~3.6. Non adjusted 0-60 mph are ~3.8-4 seconds. Quarter mile are ~117 mph. Non- RS starts, just mashing the throttle is ~3.8 0-60 1 ft adjusted and ~4 - 4.10 non-adjusted. So my initial thoughts have always been, the launch is no where near as violent as it should be (with 500+ ft lbs of torque and all wheel drive) and the turbos just don't feel like they are hitting. Well the first few logs with the MPV12 seem to validate that and peak boost appears to be ~12.5 - 13.5 psi range, not the 14.5 to 18 psi I have read about.
So what are the things I should look at that could be causing my boost levels to be off?
1. Do people test for boost leaks on the e63 / e63s platform like they do on every other ? (maybe I have a small leak ??)
2. Does the ECU detect crappy gas (CA 91) and say "oh no you don't" and limits boost? If so, is an easy test to run race gas or do you need to reset ECU somehow?
3. Is there an easy way to log knock sum and determine if that could be the culprit?
4. Also I noticed my throttle position is ~ 80% max (when it should be 100%)
3. Has anyone validated the MAP and tune screw up (referenced in this thread)? Can the dealer verify if the car has a proper tune?
4. My car is still under extended warranty, should I just take into the dealer and say "my car is off and not hitting advertised boost" with the hopes of getting new parts ?
5. Any other suggestions? Thanks in advance
#35
MBWorld Fanatic!
No. I have no idea what that should do, unless you think the ECU is in some sort of limp mode. According to logging (HPTuners), the ECU is seeing 590 ft lbs tq and Calculated Engine Load is 99.2% (so I suspect the ECU is limiting boost).
#36
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2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
Ecu adapts to throttle load over time ... just give it a try it's a freebie and then you can check it off the list
#37
Senior Member
OK bumping an old thread....Hopefully you guys can help me identify the issue.
So I have just started playing with my 100% stock 2014 e63s. I have been using Dragy and HPTuners MPV12 to begin gathering stock data and so far I am disappointed. (FWIW, my e63s has felt about the same as my highly modified e55.)
According to Dragy my 0-60 using RS (adjusted 1 ft) are ~3.6. Non adjusted 0-60 mph are ~3.8-4 seconds. Quarter mile are ~117 mph. Non- RS starts, just mashing the throttle is ~3.8 0-60 1 ft adjusted and ~4 - 4.10 non-adjusted. So my initial thoughts have always been, the launch is no where near as violent as it should be (with 500+ ft lbs of torque and all wheel drive) and the turbos just don't feel like they are hitting. Well the first few logs with the MPV12 seem to validate that and peak boost appears to be ~12.5 - 13.5 psi range, not the 14.5 to 18 psi I have read about.
So what are the things I should look at that could be causing my boost levels to be off?
1. Do people test for boost leaks on the e63 / e63s platform like they do on every other ? (maybe I have a small leak ??)
2. Does the ECU detect crappy gas (CA 91) and say "oh no you don't" and limits boost? If so, is an easy test to run race gas or do you need to reset ECU somehow?
3. Is there an easy way to log knock sum and determine if that could be the culprit?
4. Also I noticed my throttle position is ~ 80% max (when it should be 100%)
3. Has anyone validated the MAP and tune screw up (referenced in this thread)? Can the dealer verify if the car has a proper tune?
4. My car is still under extended warranty, should I just take into the dealer and say "my car is off and not hitting advertised boost" with the hopes of getting new parts ?
5. Any other suggestions? Thanks in advance
So I have just started playing with my 100% stock 2014 e63s. I have been using Dragy and HPTuners MPV12 to begin gathering stock data and so far I am disappointed. (FWIW, my e63s has felt about the same as my highly modified e55.)
According to Dragy my 0-60 using RS (adjusted 1 ft) are ~3.6. Non adjusted 0-60 mph are ~3.8-4 seconds. Quarter mile are ~117 mph. Non- RS starts, just mashing the throttle is ~3.8 0-60 1 ft adjusted and ~4 - 4.10 non-adjusted. So my initial thoughts have always been, the launch is no where near as violent as it should be (with 500+ ft lbs of torque and all wheel drive) and the turbos just don't feel like they are hitting. Well the first few logs with the MPV12 seem to validate that and peak boost appears to be ~12.5 - 13.5 psi range, not the 14.5 to 18 psi I have read about.
So what are the things I should look at that could be causing my boost levels to be off?
1. Do people test for boost leaks on the e63 / e63s platform like they do on every other ? (maybe I have a small leak ??)
2. Does the ECU detect crappy gas (CA 91) and say "oh no you don't" and limits boost? If so, is an easy test to run race gas or do you need to reset ECU somehow?
3. Is there an easy way to log knock sum and determine if that could be the culprit?
4. Also I noticed my throttle position is ~ 80% max (when it should be 100%)
3. Has anyone validated the MAP and tune screw up (referenced in this thread)? Can the dealer verify if the car has a proper tune?
4. My car is still under extended warranty, should I just take into the dealer and say "my car is off and not hitting advertised boost" with the hopes of getting new parts ?
5. Any other suggestions? Thanks in advance
My car stock also was never able to hit 14.5PSI, doesnt always mean it isnt making the power but the boost by load system this car is tuned with, isnt requested more boost to hit the desired load requested.
I believe i was somewhere around 12-13PSI stock in spring time weather conditions.
Your dragy testing sounds on par where it sound be with the 1 ft rollout, our trans are very heavy limited, esp in 1st gear but also in 2nd gear aswell. Wish there was more tuners willing to play with removing some % of the tq reduction.
Yes, ecu adjusts many parameters when running different gas.
in the HP tuners, there is a + button on the top left, i am on vacation so im limited in my help, you can add parameters to your logging next time out, like knock retard for each cylinder and such, but as long as your logging ignition you will have a good idea of how your car is behaving.
Dealer wont help, you can log, ' wastegate duty cycle' this will tell you if you have a boost leak, and if your turbos are hitting boost how it should.. If the dutty cycle is maxed out during full boost then you have a leak somewhere.. When im back from vacation i will share here all the parameters i am logging with HPtuners.
HPtuners has many "throttle" parameters, all will show different %, so dont worry about that.
when i get back we can compare my stock logs with yours! Thats always a better way.
Ill send you a log when i get back to compare to my stock log aswell.. what gear are u using to log and what RPM are you starting from. I usualy always do 3rd gear of 4th.
Last edited by 5soko; 08-10-2019 at 04:35 PM.
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cocobeex (08-11-2019)
#38
MBWorld Fanatic!
14.5 Is max boost a E63S will see under certain conditions.
My car stock also was never able to hit 14.5PSI, doesnt always mean it isnt making the power but the boost by load system this car is tuned with, isnt requested more boost to hit the desired load requested.
I believe i was somewhere around 12-13PSI stock in spring time weather conditions.
Your dragy testing sounds on par where it sound be with the 1 ft rollout, our trans are very heavy limited, esp in 1st gear but also in 2nd gear aswell. Wish there was more tuners willing to play with removing some % of the tq reduction.
Yes, ecu adjusts many parameters when running different gas.
in the HP tuners, there is a + button on the top left, i am on vacation so im limited in my help, you can add parameters to your logging next time out, like knock retard for each cylinder and such, but as long as your logging ignition you will have a good idea of how your car is behaving.
Dealer wont help, you can log, ' wastegate duty cycle' this will tell you if you have a boost leak, and if your turbos are hitting boost how it should.. If the dutty cycle is maxed out during full boost then you have a leak somewhere.. When im back from vacation i will share here all the parameters i am logging with HPtuners.
HPtuners has many "throttle" parameters, all will show different %, so dont worry about that.
when i get back we can compare my stock logs with yours! Thats always a better way.
Ill send you a log when i get back to compare to my stock log aswell.. what gear are u using to log and what RPM are you starting from. I usualy always do 3rd gear of 4th.
My car stock also was never able to hit 14.5PSI, doesnt always mean it isnt making the power but the boost by load system this car is tuned with, isnt requested more boost to hit the desired load requested.
I believe i was somewhere around 12-13PSI stock in spring time weather conditions.
Your dragy testing sounds on par where it sound be with the 1 ft rollout, our trans are very heavy limited, esp in 1st gear but also in 2nd gear aswell. Wish there was more tuners willing to play with removing some % of the tq reduction.
Yes, ecu adjusts many parameters when running different gas.
in the HP tuners, there is a + button on the top left, i am on vacation so im limited in my help, you can add parameters to your logging next time out, like knock retard for each cylinder and such, but as long as your logging ignition you will have a good idea of how your car is behaving.
Dealer wont help, you can log, ' wastegate duty cycle' this will tell you if you have a boost leak, and if your turbos are hitting boost how it should.. If the dutty cycle is maxed out during full boost then you have a leak somewhere.. When im back from vacation i will share here all the parameters i am logging with HPtuners.
HPtuners has many "throttle" parameters, all will show different %, so dont worry about that.
when i get back we can compare my stock logs with yours! Thats always a better way.
Ill send you a log when i get back to compare to my stock log aswell.. what gear are u using to log and what RPM are you starting from. I usualy always do 3rd gear of 4th.
Digging a bit deeper into my logs and times, I appear to be very close to the stock published numbers, with the exception of 1/4 mile time, which I believe to be more function on full weight and heavy tires. I have larger / heavier tires than stock and I am guessing this could be costing me quite a bit in the 1/4 mile. I am going to see if I can find someone that will allow me to run the standard tire setup and see the difference.
My next piece I will test is the UPD filter / spacer setup.
#39
Senior Member
i gotta figure out a way to measure my boost. i installed the android screen and got the Torque app (with wifi OBD2 because the android wont search external BT sources). it's only showing like 4 psi. it did the same thing in my old 550i. i even took it to my mechanic to have them test it. normal.
funny thing...in my wife's M4.....it would read a consistent 18-19 psi. really not sure why i cant get it to work on MY cars....
funny thing...in my wife's M4.....it would read a consistent 18-19 psi. really not sure why i cant get it to work on MY cars....
#40
Super Member
i gotta figure out a way to measure my boost. i installed the android screen and got the Torque app (with wifi OBD2 because the android wont search external BT sources). it's only showing like 4 psi. it did the same thing in my old 550i. i even took it to my mechanic to have them test it. normal.
funny thing...in my wife's M4.....it would read a consistent 18-19 psi. really not sure why i cant get it to work on MY cars....
funny thing...in my wife's M4.....it would read a consistent 18-19 psi. really not sure why i cant get it to work on MY cars....
#41
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2014 E550 4MATIC TUNED - Turbo Upgraded Stage 3
i gotta figure out a way to measure my boost. i installed the android screen and got the Torque app (with wifi OBD2 because the android wont search external BT sources). it's only showing like 4 psi. it did the same thing in my old 550i. i even took it to my mechanic to have them test it. normal.
funny thing...in my wife's M4.....it would read a consistent 18-19 psi. really not sure why i cant get it to work on MY cars....
funny thing...in my wife's M4.....it would read a consistent 18-19 psi. really not sure why i cant get it to work on MY cars....
i am using OBD2 with Torque App as well in Android system.
Here is my screen shot and log
#42
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#43
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2014 E550 4MATIC TUNED - Turbo Upgraded Stage 3
Are you saying your Boost / Vacuum gauge never swing from Vacuum to Boost ?
The gauge i circled in green, you can see there is a Red little arrow. That was the max boost it achieved in that run. around 19 psi
In that gauge I circled, Right side is Vacuum, left side is boost.
#44
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2018 S560 and 2019 E450 Wagon.
If your only getting 80 percent throttle that’s your issue. I can’t remember on the 212 if you can pull up throttle position on the command screen. On the 213 you can via dynamic select. My suggestion would be to bring it to the dealer and have them put it on the star diagnostic tool and see what your actually getting for maximum throttle position.
#46
Senior Member
i gotta figure out a way to measure my boost. i installed the android screen and got the Torque app (with wifi OBD2 because the android wont search external BT sources). it's only showing like 4 psi. it did the same thing in my old 550i. i even took it to my mechanic to have them test it. normal.
funny thing...in my wife's M4.....it would read a consistent 18-19 psi. really not sure why i cant get it to work on MY cars....
funny thing...in my wife's M4.....it would read a consistent 18-19 psi. really not sure why i cant get it to work on MY cars....
#47
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2014 AMG E63S and 2020 AMG GTC
circling back to this...with the help from the research done by folks like @5soko , @brutus_tx , etc....i've realized that the reason the boost psi was reading so low is that i was only looking at it during a 1st gear pull. thanx to their data logs, we now know that boost is severely restricted in the 1st gear and more is allowed as the gears increase.
I just went back through this thread from its inception and I shake my head at some of the responses. I think its safe to say we have a better understanding of these cars now then we did only a few years ago.
#48
Map sensor question
5th gear seems to work for max boost. If you have an S then it should be about 18.8psi. I have the same issue with boost level consistency. I see about 15psi all the time. I deleted my cats so I know a little will be lost. Have you tried mixing a bit of race gas? Log just regular MAP readings since Boost in dash command is a "Calculated" PID. If you log in KPA every 6 kpa over 100kpa is 1 psi boostI believe. So example 124kpa would be 4 psi boost. I was also reading somewhere that some 14+ year model S cars didnt get the right factory tune and also had the wrong map sensor. hopefully someone can shine some light
have a question, i have a 2016 e63s tuned by dtk, downpipes cold air intakes on an e30 tune. I do a pull and get code p0108 high map circuit. I am wondering what is the max boost the map can see?
#49
Super Member
#50
Actually the stock turbo can handle up to 29psi of boost. All that is control by the ECU. I'm good friend with DME Tuning. With Air filter and spark you can run safely 23.5psi. I have that running right now. With Down pipes you can boost up to 29 pounds. You will also need to Advance timing by 6 degrees. Each degree you will gain about 18-20hp and with 1 pound you will get about 27-35hp. If anything you guys can DM me for more info.