Super Charger, NOS, or Both?
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Bay Area, California
2015 E63s AMG, 2020 GLC 43 AMG
Super Charger, NOS, or Both?
Hey guys,
Thinking about the Weistech SC upgrade and/or 100 shot wet NOS on my 2011 M156.
Concerned about smog legalities here in Cali also. Their website states their Stage I is smog legal but the hp isn't great compared to Stage II or Stage III. Anybody have direct knowledge on this. Their site is a bit confusing though because it says at the top of the Stage I description that it is smog legal and at the bottom of the page it has a disclaimer that it is NOT smog legal. Huh?
If I were to do this, looks like I will definitely require a Quaiffe LSD upgrade and exhaust upgrades too. Guessing I am looking at about $22k+ installed for the project? I would love to hear from any of you that have done this.
Lastly, I know nearly zero about nitrous. Would a 100 shot wet system be a better overall way of increasing Hp? Considering finding a place for the bottle, recharging the bottle, etc? I have also read that some guys have done both SC and NOS. Instinctively that sounds like an engine explosion!
Thanks in advance for your input.
BTW, I also considered just picking up a newer biturbo model to have better tuning options. But I really like the look of my 2011. Plus it might be easier to slide the upgrade in under the wife's radar than a new car!!!
Thinking about the Weistech SC upgrade and/or 100 shot wet NOS on my 2011 M156.
Concerned about smog legalities here in Cali also. Their website states their Stage I is smog legal but the hp isn't great compared to Stage II or Stage III. Anybody have direct knowledge on this. Their site is a bit confusing though because it says at the top of the Stage I description that it is smog legal and at the bottom of the page it has a disclaimer that it is NOT smog legal. Huh?
If I were to do this, looks like I will definitely require a Quaiffe LSD upgrade and exhaust upgrades too. Guessing I am looking at about $22k+ installed for the project? I would love to hear from any of you that have done this.
Lastly, I know nearly zero about nitrous. Would a 100 shot wet system be a better overall way of increasing Hp? Considering finding a place for the bottle, recharging the bottle, etc? I have also read that some guys have done both SC and NOS. Instinctively that sounds like an engine explosion!
Thanks in advance for your input.
BTW, I also considered just picking up a newer biturbo model to have better tuning options. But I really like the look of my 2011. Plus it might be easier to slide the upgrade in under the wife's radar than a new car!!!
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From: London, UK
W212 - E63 AMG
Damn, that's hard times having the whole Cali thing to worry about. While I'm sure nitrous wouldn't be legal over there either, it would probably cost you less than $22k over the course of your ownership, but then you'd only use it at full throttle, whereas a supercharger changes the dynamics of the car across all ranges (but also fuel economy will take a serious nosedive too)
There was a guy with a Weistec system for sale recently...maybe look around for the thread.
I might Weistec my car next year...maybe.....
Going back to you though, Perhaps a 2012 turbo model with a tune would be a lot simpler. But then of course...you won't have the legendary M156. As long as you stay away from the 2013+ front end, you'll be winning either way
There was a guy with a Weistec system for sale recently...maybe look around for the thread.
I might Weistec my car next year...maybe.....
Going back to you though, Perhaps a 2012 turbo model with a tune would be a lot simpler. But then of course...you won't have the legendary M156. As long as you stay away from the 2013+ front end, you'll be winning either way
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From: IL
19 E63s, 23 M3 compX, B9 SQ5
Trade in for biturbo car, be much faster, no worries about smog. Stay away from NOS if you care about your engine, or plan on keeping the car.
Last edited by raudiace4; May 15, 2017 at 10:26 AM.
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From: miami / delray beach
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
actually the M156 is one of the best MB engines for nos... couple guys down here running it for years with no problem and the one of the fastest c63's, when they first came out, was on nos and ran 10.1/139.7 two years before any M156's were coming close
a 100 shot on the M156 is really nothing to worry about as people have gone much bigger on M156
a 100 shot on the M156 is really nothing to worry about as people have gone much bigger on M156
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Bay Area, California
2015 E63s AMG, 2020 GLC 43 AMG
Thanks for the Replies
Thanks Guys,
At this point I am leaning toward the wet 100shot. Everything I have read agrees with the M156 being bullet proof for a 100 shot, and some of you are agreeing.
I would be able to easily remove the tank and obvious stuff for smogging. However, I am thinking if I go wet, it will be pretty hard to hide the intake manifold mods? Guessing I can find a smog "friendly" place that can overlook the visual somewhere though as well?
In case it's not obvious, I am not the most schooled on NO yet, so . . .
A few questions:
1) If I only go 100 shot, will I need to adjust timing (as in retard it all)?
2) Will my Eorocharge V5 tune need to be updated in any way?
3) Would I need different plugs to run the wet 100?
4) What is the best wet system kit out there?
5) Roughly how much is installation for a wet system?
6) Roughly how many sprays do you get out of a 10Lb bottle?
BTW, I already have ROW airboxes, so that can't hurt.
Thanks Again Gents!
At this point I am leaning toward the wet 100shot. Everything I have read agrees with the M156 being bullet proof for a 100 shot, and some of you are agreeing.
I would be able to easily remove the tank and obvious stuff for smogging. However, I am thinking if I go wet, it will be pretty hard to hide the intake manifold mods? Guessing I can find a smog "friendly" place that can overlook the visual somewhere though as well?
In case it's not obvious, I am not the most schooled on NO yet, so . . .
A few questions:
1) If I only go 100 shot, will I need to adjust timing (as in retard it all)?
2) Will my Eorocharge V5 tune need to be updated in any way?
3) Would I need different plugs to run the wet 100?
4) What is the best wet system kit out there?
5) Roughly how much is installation for a wet system?
6) Roughly how many sprays do you get out of a 10Lb bottle?
BTW, I already have ROW airboxes, so that can't hurt.
Thanks Again Gents!
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MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: miami / delray beach
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
rule of thumb 1 to 1.5 degrees timing retard per 50HP shot... and since tunes like your v5 generally are advancing the timing to make more power then definitely a good idea to back of the timing a little.... basically you need to get it on a dyno and do a dyno tune to see what the motor likes as it will tell the tuner when you've reached a good spot of timing/afr
you can run nos without any tune, but since you technically already have a tune with advanced timing, you are going to need to have it retuned to be safe and to find the right timing
as for bottle, really depends on how much you use it and how much you are spraying.... i had it once on my old 88 mustang and it would last about 10 - 1/4 mile runs at track... on the street it just depended on how i was driving
smog i cant comment since i live in FL and we dont have to do emissions testing
you can run nos without any tune, but since you technically already have a tune with advanced timing, you are going to need to have it retuned to be safe and to find the right timing
as for bottle, really depends on how much you use it and how much you are spraying.... i had it once on my old 88 mustang and it would last about 10 - 1/4 mile runs at track... on the street it just depended on how i was driving
smog i cant comment since i live in FL and we dont have to do emissions testing
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Thread Starter
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From: Bay Area, California
2015 E63s AMG, 2020 GLC 43 AMG
I just called up Airgas here and was told the following:
"Right now we are not filling race bottles of NO2 due to a nationwide shortage of NO2. Hospitals currently have priority and that is the only tanks we fill. We do not know when the ban will be lifted."
So, I guess it would be pretty pointless to install the system if I can't get the gas right?
Other options?
"Right now we are not filling race bottles of NO2 due to a nationwide shortage of NO2. Hospitals currently have priority and that is the only tanks we fill. We do not know when the ban will be lifted."
So, I guess it would be pretty pointless to install the system if I can't get the gas right?
Other options?
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From: miami / delray beach
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
you can get nos so many other places.... i wouldnt worry about supply shortage... down here you can get refilled at pepboys even
https://www.holley.com/nos_refill_locations/
https://www.holley.com/nos_refill_locations/
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Bay Area, California
2015 E63s AMG, 2020 GLC 43 AMG
you can get nos so many other places.... i wouldnt worry about supply shortage... down here you can get refilled at pepboys even
https://www.holley.com/nos_refill_locations/
https://www.holley.com/nos_refill_locations/
So, that's the bad news. Maybe the good news is that I can work some discounts on the gear since there is no NO!
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From: Smyrna, GA
2014 E63S Steel Grey/Beige Nappa, Lexus GX470, Honda Accord
We have pep boys and various other speed shops that advertise online as refillers. But every one of them that I called yesterday said they haven't been able to get any from their supplier. One of the racing places said they can't even fill their own racing bottles. Also, they say it's been about 6 months since they could. What is going on? Some kind of an intentional shortage by the EPA or police against racers?
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c63
Anything more then a 75 shot will require tuning stock pistons and rods will give up around 700whp to 725whp i wouldnt push it more then that
ALso stock fuel pumps and lines are out limited to 700whp
Happy modding
ALso stock fuel pumps and lines are out limited to 700whp
Happy modding
Thread Starter
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From: Bay Area, California
2015 E63s AMG, 2020 GLC 43 AMG
Am I missing something, or have wrong assumptions? If so feel free to correct me.
Thanks for your reply
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Bay Area, California
2015 E63s AMG, 2020 GLC 43 AMG
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,399
Likes: 202
From: Bay Area, California
2015 E63s AMG, 2020 GLC 43 AMG
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2011
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From: miami / delray beach
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
So right now with my V5 tune I estimate I am somewhere near 450 whp. If I were to go with a 100 shot, I would be somewhere near 550 whp? If this is correct, my stock infrastructure should be adequate, correct?
Am I missing something, or have wrong assumptions? If so feel free to correct me.
Thanks for your reply
Am I missing something, or have wrong assumptions? If so feel free to correct me.
Thanks for your reply
Thread Starter
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From: Bay Area, California
2015 E63s AMG, 2020 GLC 43 AMG
Also, if I were to only go with a 100 shot, could I get away with a dry setup? Just thinking a dry setup is lot easier to remove should I need to without mods left behind. Just curious.
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From: miami / delray beach
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
you need a retune no matter what since you are running aftermarket tune already, as I mentioned before..... your aftermarket tune runs more aggressive timing than stock tune..... if you had stock tune you wouldnt need to retune for nos on a small shot, but since you are not stock tune, you are gonna need to pull some timing
as for dry shot you will want to make sure that you have a good tuner that knows how to tune for dry shots. Dry shots require more tuning since you are needing the injectors spray enough fuel for the nitrous..... I would stick with wet as easier to tune and thus safer generally....Since a wet system adds fuel in from the rail your stock injectors wont have to up the duty cycle so with a good fuel pump the rest of your fuel system can handle it. wet kit also allows room for growth either just upping the jets or going to a dual stage
as for dry shot you will want to make sure that you have a good tuner that knows how to tune for dry shots. Dry shots require more tuning since you are needing the injectors spray enough fuel for the nitrous..... I would stick with wet as easier to tune and thus safer generally....Since a wet system adds fuel in from the rail your stock injectors wont have to up the duty cycle so with a good fuel pump the rest of your fuel system can handle it. wet kit also allows room for growth either just upping the jets or going to a dual stage
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Bay Area, California
2015 E63s AMG, 2020 GLC 43 AMG
you need a retune no matter what since you are running aftermarket tune already, as I mentioned before..... your aftermarket tune runs more aggressive timing than stock tune..... if you had stock tune you wouldnt need to retune for nos on a small shot, but since you are not stock tune, you are gonna need to pull some timing
as for dry shot you will want to make sure that you have a good tuner that knows how to tune for dry shots. Dry shots require more tuning since you are needing the injectors spray enough fuel for the nitrous..... I would stick with wet as easier to tune and thus safer generally....Since a wet system adds fuel in from the rail your stock injectors wont have to up the duty cycle so with a good fuel pump the rest of your fuel system can handle it. wet kit also allows room for growth either just upping the jets or going to a dual stage
as for dry shot you will want to make sure that you have a good tuner that knows how to tune for dry shots. Dry shots require more tuning since you are needing the injectors spray enough fuel for the nitrous..... I would stick with wet as easier to tune and thus safer generally....Since a wet system adds fuel in from the rail your stock injectors wont have to up the duty cycle so with a good fuel pump the rest of your fuel system can handle it. wet kit also allows room for growth either just upping the jets or going to a dual stage
1) Because I have the Genius handheld programmer, I can just flip back to stock tune on those nights I feel like getting crazy! Then re-load the V5 tune the next day. Does this sound like a plan?
2) If I go with the wet system, won't it be much more difficult to remove the system without leaving behind modifications (like manifold holes and such)? Just thinking ahead if I have to smog it or sell it or something like that.
Thanks Again!
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From: miami / delray beach
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
Thanks man for all your time and advice on this stuff. I have a couple of thoughts/questions:
1) Because I have the Genius handheld programmer, I can just flip back to stock tune on those nights I feel like getting crazy! Then re-load the V5 tune the next day. Does this sound like a plan?
1) Because I have the Genius handheld programmer, I can just flip back to stock tune on those nights I feel like getting crazy! Then re-load the V5 tune the next day. Does this sound like a plan?
Thread Starter
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From: Bay Area, California
2015 E63s AMG, 2020 GLC 43 AMG
No Racing Nitrous, No Whip Cream, No Fun
So here is the latest I have found on the NO shortage.
It is actually nationwide. The shortage is the result of an Airgas explosion back in August. Production was shut down when that happened and was supposed to be back up by March. However, it looks like this didnt happen. Medical needs have top priority while food businesses get 2nd priority. This shortage has also caused Reddi-Whip to shut down production of their whip cream. Who knew? lol
I know some of you are saying you can still get it and I believe you. However, it is likely that the places you are filling from just haven't run out yet or bought a surplus when they heard about the accident.
Drag Illustrated says the racing community is getting hit hard and they cannot confirm a resolution date. UGH
Just thought I would share what I found.
Cheers
It is actually nationwide. The shortage is the result of an Airgas explosion back in August. Production was shut down when that happened and was supposed to be back up by March. However, it looks like this didnt happen. Medical needs have top priority while food businesses get 2nd priority. This shortage has also caused Reddi-Whip to shut down production of their whip cream. Who knew? lol
I know some of you are saying you can still get it and I believe you. However, it is likely that the places you are filling from just haven't run out yet or bought a surplus when they heard about the accident.
Drag Illustrated says the racing community is getting hit hard and they cannot confirm a resolution date. UGH
Just thought I would share what I found.
Cheers
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From: In My Work
2017 W222 AMG S63 Sedan.
Just my 2cent. With all the money, time and effort going with the Nos and LSD to get your 6.3 faster, why not just upgrade to a 5.5tt. Better technology, more tuning options and maybe a warranty too.
Also, isn't Nos unsafe if heat is exposed to it for prolong time. Just saying.
Also, isn't Nos unsafe if heat is exposed to it for prolong time. Just saying.
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'03 E55, Range Rover Sport Supercharged, Ducati 748R
Just my 2cent. With all the money, time and effort going with the Nos and LSD to get your 6.3 faster, why not just upgrade to a 5.5tt. Better technology, more tuning options and maybe a warranty too.
Also, isn't Nos unsafe if heat is exposed to it for prolong time. Just saying.
Also, isn't Nos unsafe if heat is exposed to it for prolong time. Just saying.
