Tracking an E63S...Wagon.
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E63S
Tracking an E63S...Wagon.
Searched, but searching "track" usually has drag racing. So, sorry if this has been tackled upon before.
Recently purchased a wagon. Want to do occasional track days with it.
What, if any, are the failure points or must-do mods for a reliable experience? The basics I get -- tires, brakes, fluid... but anything else? Baffled sump? Toe arms? CG Lock for the belt? A sweet sweet helmet with Lewis Hamilton's face on it?
Recently purchased a wagon. Want to do occasional track days with it.
What, if any, are the failure points or must-do mods for a reliable experience? The basics I get -- tires, brakes, fluid... but anything else? Baffled sump? Toe arms? CG Lock for the belt? A sweet sweet helmet with Lewis Hamilton's face on it?
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Joined: Jan 2018
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E63 AMG Wagon
I've spent plenty of time on the track in other cars and although i own a E63 Wagon, i can't imagine it would be fun for more then a lap or 2.
It's a large, heavy, and fast. It's not all that agile in the twisties. Your wear and tear will be based on the tarmac surface and how many hours you spend on the track. Tires will go first and fast.
I would save the wear and tear on wagon and by used Cayman, some sort of a BMW or a 911. You will have much more fun.
It's a large, heavy, and fast. It's not all that agile in the twisties. Your wear and tear will be based on the tarmac surface and how many hours you spend on the track. Tires will go first and fast.
I would save the wear and tear on wagon and by used Cayman, some sort of a BMW or a 911. You will have much more fun.
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Joined: Feb 2017
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2014 E63 AMG wagon
I have to agree with the post above, the weight of the car/wagon plus the speed it can deliver would make it a handful at a track. Additionally there is not much in the way of suspension mods available.
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From: Sarasota, Florida
2023 E450 Cabriolet, 2019 F150 Platinum, 2014 Dodge Challenger R/T
I get both arguments....
If you want to just blast down the straights and go 8/10 thru the corners... should be fun to rip around in a wagon just for the looks of others and the occasional sports car guy being embarrassed by a wagon owning them on the straightaways
If you really want to rip around a TRACK, a slow car driven fast can be a lot of fun
If you want to just blast down the straights and go 8/10 thru the corners... should be fun to rip around in a wagon just for the looks of others and the occasional sports car guy being embarrassed by a wagon owning them on the straightaways
If you really want to rip around a TRACK, a slow car driven fast can be a lot of fun
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E63S
I would save the wear and tear on wagon and by used Cayman, some sort of a BMW or a 911. You will have much more fun.
The speed of the E63S isn't a concern, but it seems there's an overall lack of people who have tracked the W212 chassis, unfortunately.
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Joined: Apr 2018
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From: Boston area
2016 E63 Wagon
I think it will be a great fun car on the track, for a short while, until the brakes will overheat. It's a very fast, very heavy car. At least you will need to add front brake cooling ducts, remove the splash shields etc.
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2014 E63S Wagon
I remember someone on this forum talking about tracking their E63. The gist is that if you're ok with a couple thousand dollars of consumables for a track day, it's a cool novelty experience. Definitely not something you want to do regularly.
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Joined: Oct 2019
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E63S
Forgot that I made this thread, and forgot I should have updated it.
Did the track event, car is surprisingly much more capable than the Giulia 2.0t RWD I had. But, I couldn't turn off TC/ESC in the Alfa, while I could turn off all the nannies in the E63S. Only had one butthole puckering moment, with the car at what seemed like a 45' angle. The car has a good amount of power, carrying something like 15mph less down the straights than the Noble.
The biggest issues are:
- Brakes. Jesus do they fade after 3 hot laps. Granted, the course I was on is heavy on brakes, and I'm on stock pads. Definitely needs some proper pads though
- Gearbox. Gearbox would start shifting slowly after a few hot laps too. My E63S is used, so not sure if it's needing a tranny flush or if that's just the nature of overheating the gearbox.
- Weight. This is a lumbering beast of a car. So. Damn. Heavy
Did the track event, car is surprisingly much more capable than the Giulia 2.0t RWD I had. But, I couldn't turn off TC/ESC in the Alfa, while I could turn off all the nannies in the E63S. Only had one butthole puckering moment, with the car at what seemed like a 45' angle. The car has a good amount of power, carrying something like 15mph less down the straights than the Noble.
The biggest issues are:
- Brakes. Jesus do they fade after 3 hot laps. Granted, the course I was on is heavy on brakes, and I'm on stock pads. Definitely needs some proper pads though
- Gearbox. Gearbox would start shifting slowly after a few hot laps too. My E63S is used, so not sure if it's needing a tranny flush or if that's just the nature of overheating the gearbox.
- Weight. This is a lumbering beast of a car. So. Damn. Heavy
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From: Sarasota, Florida
2023 E450 Cabriolet, 2019 F150 Platinum, 2014 Dodge Challenger R/T
Forgot that I made this thread, and forgot I should have updated it.
Did the track event, car is surprisingly much more capable than the Giulia 2.0t RWD I had. But, I couldn't turn off TC/ESC in the Alfa, while I could turn off all the nannies in the E63S. Only had one butthole puckering moment, with the car at what seemed like a 45' angle. The car has a good amount of power, carrying something like 15mph less down the straights than the Noble.
The biggest issues are:
- Brakes. Jesus do they fade after 3 hot laps. Granted, the course I was on is heavy on brakes, and I'm on stock pads. Definitely needs some proper pads though
- Gearbox. Gearbox would start shifting slowly after a few hot laps too. My E63S is used, so not sure if it's needing a tranny flush or if that's just the nature of overheating the gearbox.
- Weight. This is a lumbering beast of a car. So. Damn. Heavy
Did the track event, car is surprisingly much more capable than the Giulia 2.0t RWD I had. But, I couldn't turn off TC/ESC in the Alfa, while I could turn off all the nannies in the E63S. Only had one butthole puckering moment, with the car at what seemed like a 45' angle. The car has a good amount of power, carrying something like 15mph less down the straights than the Noble.
The biggest issues are:
- Brakes. Jesus do they fade after 3 hot laps. Granted, the course I was on is heavy on brakes, and I'm on stock pads. Definitely needs some proper pads though
- Gearbox. Gearbox would start shifting slowly after a few hot laps too. My E63S is used, so not sure if it's needing a tranny flush or if that's just the nature of overheating the gearbox.
- Weight. This is a lumbering beast of a car. So. Damn. Heavy
With the exception of the gear box i don't think any of this was a shock ?
Still had to be fun though
Mike
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From: Georgia
E 63S Wagon Renntech, E55 Renntech, SL65, SL 55 030, ML, bunch of old ones--they come, they go...
Missed this the first time...
It will be great to show off, and have a little fun...but I think you can count on 1. a set of tires gone, and 2. the respect of everyone there.
I have a 213 with some mods (see Marketplace), and I have scared myself just on the interstate with a rapid lane change. With the 4matic, there's just no slip angles, and it goes where it thinks it's supposed to go....
Careful!
I have a 213 with some mods (see Marketplace), and I have scared myself just on the interstate with a rapid lane change. With the 4matic, there's just no slip angles, and it goes where it thinks it's supposed to go....
Careful!
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'26 E53 | '08 E90M
To get serious, I think you'd want to get Goodyear Supercar3's or similar track tire that is an OEM-specced heavy-*** fast track car (ZL1/1LE tire)
There are definitely proper pads available for these brakes - duh you saw that coming - the oem pads work at -20f there's no material in the world that can perform over the -40C-1000C range you'd ask of it to dual purpose street/track in a 150mph on any decent straight, 4500lb car. Pad changes are a dawdle on these calipers
Trans cooling might be mitigated by upshifting at 5500 and there is likely an opportunity for better cooling - the DCT BMW's sometimes need an upgraded cooler? I wonder if they have the cooler outlet blocked inefficiently too, the oil cooler IIRC gets priority sitting way out front and dumping below the car, I can't picture where the trans c ooler is
Hey at least you didn't overheat the diff!
No matter what, you're a hero?
There are definitely proper pads available for these brakes - duh you saw that coming - the oem pads work at -20f there's no material in the world that can perform over the -40C-1000C range you'd ask of it to dual purpose street/track in a 150mph on any decent straight, 4500lb car. Pad changes are a dawdle on these calipers
Trans cooling might be mitigated by upshifting at 5500 and there is likely an opportunity for better cooling - the DCT BMW's sometimes need an upgraded cooler? I wonder if they have the cooler outlet blocked inefficiently too, the oil cooler IIRC gets priority sitting way out front and dumping below the car, I can't picture where the trans c ooler is
Hey at least you didn't overheat the diff!
No matter what, you're a hero?
Last edited by Richbot; Jan 15, 2020 at 05:56 PM.
Member
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 116
Likes: 28
2014 E63S Wagon
Forgot that I made this thread, and forgot I should have updated it.
Did the track event, car is surprisingly much more capable than the Giulia 2.0t RWD I had. But, I couldn't turn off TC/ESC in the Alfa, while I could turn off all the nannies in the E63S. Only had one butthole puckering moment, with the car at what seemed like a 45' angle. The car has a good amount of power, carrying something like 15mph less down the straights than the Noble.
The biggest issues are:
- Brakes. Jesus do they fade after 3 hot laps. Granted, the course I was on is heavy on brakes, and I'm on stock pads. Definitely needs some proper pads though
- Gearbox. Gearbox would start shifting slowly after a few hot laps too. My E63S is used, so not sure if it's needing a tranny flush or if that's just the nature of overheating the gearbox.
- Weight. This is a lumbering beast of a car. So. Damn. Heavy
Did the track event, car is surprisingly much more capable than the Giulia 2.0t RWD I had. But, I couldn't turn off TC/ESC in the Alfa, while I could turn off all the nannies in the E63S. Only had one butthole puckering moment, with the car at what seemed like a 45' angle. The car has a good amount of power, carrying something like 15mph less down the straights than the Noble.
The biggest issues are:
- Brakes. Jesus do they fade after 3 hot laps. Granted, the course I was on is heavy on brakes, and I'm on stock pads. Definitely needs some proper pads though
- Gearbox. Gearbox would start shifting slowly after a few hot laps too. My E63S is used, so not sure if it's needing a tranny flush or if that's just the nature of overheating the gearbox.
- Weight. This is a lumbering beast of a car. So. Damn. Heavy
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'09 C63 AMG
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E63S
Now to tackle the gearbox shifting issue.
There are definitely proper pads available for these brakes - duh you saw that coming - the oem pads work at -20f there's no material in the world that can perform over the -40C-1000C range you'd ask of it to dual purpose street/track in a 150mph on any decent straight, 4500lb car. Pad changes are a dawdle on these calipers
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,619
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From: Georgia
E 63S Wagon Renntech, E55 Renntech, SL65, SL 55 030, ML, bunch of old ones--they come, they go...
Exactly the same for me....
that 45 degree angle thing happened to me on the freeway with some idiot....I jerked it and I thought it was the end. It scared the crap out of me (and I'm not easily scared in the car). But it gathered itself back up, and on we went...
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2014 E63S Wagon
Haha that is so awesome! I'd imagine it'd be a weird mix of an experience tracking this thing. Like I know I'd be able to pull on the agile/small cars on the straights but would feel guilty if I don't give them the point-by since they'd probably get back on my *** during the corners.
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From: Hotlanta
AMG
Well, the brakes were surprising. I thought they'd last more than a few easy laps.
Now to tackle the gearbox shifting issue.
I imagine with the nannies on, it'll just try to drive you out of a slid. I had them all off, so I could get more angle. Only caught me off guard once and thought I was gonna loop it.
The stock whatever tires it has on it seem really really good. Rarely felt like I was waiting for the grip to catch up. More like waiting for the car to settle the weight transfer before I could get into the throttle.
Yep. Wanted to see how it'd do completely stock... then move into changing parts slowly to see how it changes the car. Pads are definitely on the list.
Eh, just money. The experience is far worth more. Plus, passing GT350s, CTS-Vs, etc is almost priceless in a wagon.
Not bad. Felt very compliant and composed. Didn't feel too floaty or any of the issues one would expect to feel from air suspension. It could definitely use stiffer suspension if one were to religiously campaign the wagon as a track vehicle, but considering I'm only tracking this car maybe twice a year, I plan on leaving the suspension stock.
Now to tackle the gearbox shifting issue.
I imagine with the nannies on, it'll just try to drive you out of a slid. I had them all off, so I could get more angle. Only caught me off guard once and thought I was gonna loop it.
The stock whatever tires it has on it seem really really good. Rarely felt like I was waiting for the grip to catch up. More like waiting for the car to settle the weight transfer before I could get into the throttle.
Yep. Wanted to see how it'd do completely stock... then move into changing parts slowly to see how it changes the car. Pads are definitely on the list.
Eh, just money. The experience is far worth more. Plus, passing GT350s, CTS-Vs, etc is almost priceless in a wagon.
Not bad. Felt very compliant and composed. Didn't feel too floaty or any of the issues one would expect to feel from air suspension. It could definitely use stiffer suspension if one were to religiously campaign the wagon as a track vehicle, but considering I'm only tracking this car maybe twice a year, I plan on leaving the suspension stock.
What brake pads will you change to?
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 72
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'26 E53 | '08 E90M
Either there is a safety net I'm not able to notice, or this thing has the friendliest rear toe curve in the history of toe curves - you can get it WAAAAAY sideways, even with a really fast yaw rate, and it'll still drive out of it which is surprising for how heavy it is, though I'm sure having some power going to the fronts helps a lot to keep from completely unweighting the rear end. I imagine the pendulum effect is only more pronounced on teh wagon :o It's not as tossable as my E90M, but it's just as catch-able
I agree you have to wait forever for the car to take a set, it's easy to start feeding power in and then it's like "whoa wait I wasn't done"
If you liked the 5P's on track, and don't want a more track-focused tire, you should give the Conti ECS a try when you kill your next set. It's a fantastic all-rounder and wears much better and more evenly than the 2000's-vintage 5P, tire tech has advanced a lot. It's also not going to fall apart on track like most other street tires (Michelin I'm looking at you)
I agree you have to wait forever for the car to take a set, it's easy to start feeding power in and then it's like "whoa wait I wasn't done"
If you liked the 5P's on track, and don't want a more track-focused tire, you should give the Conti ECS a try when you kill your next set. It's a fantastic all-rounder and wears much better and more evenly than the 2000's-vintage 5P, tire tech has advanced a lot. It's also not going to fall apart on track like most other street tires (Michelin I'm looking at you)
Last edited by Richbot; Jan 17, 2020 at 10:42 AM.
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E63S
Related, took the Wagon to the drag strip to get a base time.
DA: 2791'
r/t: .662
60': 1.921
330: 5.181
660: 7.843 @ 92.18
1000: 10.175
ET: 12.146 @ 114.37mph
That trap is a bit low compared to stock.
For comparisons, the one time I took the Noble with a 420whp tune:
r/t: .885
60: 2.226
330: 5.475
660: 7.830 @ 105.75
1000: 9.822
et: 11.494 @ 134.83mph
The Merc would be outrunning the Noble until half track where the *** freight trains past. Interesting.
DA: 2791'
r/t: .662
60': 1.921
330: 5.181
660: 7.843 @ 92.18
1000: 10.175
ET: 12.146 @ 114.37mph
That trap is a bit low compared to stock.
For comparisons, the one time I took the Noble with a 420whp tune:
r/t: .885
60: 2.226
330: 5.475
660: 7.830 @ 105.75
1000: 9.822
et: 11.494 @ 134.83mph
The Merc would be outrunning the Noble until half track where the *** freight trains past. Interesting.
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 9,734
Likes: 65
From: Hotlanta
AMG
Forgot that I made this thread, and forgot I should have updated it.
Did the track event, car is surprisingly much more capable than the Giulia 2.0t RWD I had. But, I couldn't turn off TC/ESC in the Alfa, while I could turn off all the nannies in the E63S. Only had one butthole puckering moment, with the car at what seemed like a 45' angle. The car has a good amount of power, carrying something like 15mph less down the straights than the Noble.
The biggest issues are:
- Brakes. Jesus do they fade after 3 hot laps. Granted, the course I was on is heavy on brakes, and I'm on stock pads. Definitely needs some proper pads though
- Gearbox. Gearbox would start shifting slowly after a few hot laps too. My E63S is used, so not sure if it's needing a tranny flush or if that's just the nature of overheating the gearbox.
- Weight. This is a lumbering beast of a car. So. Damn. Heavy
Did the track event, car is surprisingly much more capable than the Giulia 2.0t RWD I had. But, I couldn't turn off TC/ESC in the Alfa, while I could turn off all the nannies in the E63S. Only had one butthole puckering moment, with the car at what seemed like a 45' angle. The car has a good amount of power, carrying something like 15mph less down the straights than the Noble.
The biggest issues are:
- Brakes. Jesus do they fade after 3 hot laps. Granted, the course I was on is heavy on brakes, and I'm on stock pads. Definitely needs some proper pads though
- Gearbox. Gearbox would start shifting slowly after a few hot laps too. My E63S is used, so not sure if it's needing a tranny flush or if that's just the nature of overheating the gearbox.
- Weight. This is a lumbering beast of a car. So. Damn. Heavy
As far as the braking research:
Since I just replaced my OEM brakes f/r and knowing these will likely be inadequate (and don’t want them trashed in one weekend) my plan is to get a second set of rotors/pads for the occasional track day.
Change fluid to Motul 660. I want to keep it DOT 4.
This thread convinced me the 2-piece front Brembo rotors were direct fit/bolt on:
https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...2014-e63s.html
Front rotors: https://www.brembostoreusa.com/produ...p40732-c133842
Rear rotors: https://www.brembostoreusa.com/produ...p39967-c135138
*Have rotors cryo-treated*
Pads: Carbotech XP10 (front), Carbotech XP8 (rear)
https://ctbrakes.com/product-search/
Thoughts?
Last edited by Chappy; Jan 26, 2020 at 10:12 AM.
