Eurocharged Stage 1 Flex Fuel Tune
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MB C63 AMG
Yeah its diffrent in first two gears the increase the torque limit so you have no TB close. The big difference in TCU software cames with bigger turbo and lot more power.
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2008 c300
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2014 AMG E63S and 2020 AMG GTC
Its not an apples to apples comparison I feel. What are the quarter mile times for comparison as well?
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2007 e350 sport. 2010 350 4matic sport. Worlds first W212 E63R self built.
One of the guys in here just ran a 7.27 60-130 with the Eurocharged flex tune, but he is RWD. The stock TCU in the AWD platform is very restrictive in the lower gears.
Its not an apples to apples comparison I feel. What are the quarter mile times for comparison as well?
Its not an apples to apples comparison I feel. What are the quarter mile times for comparison as well?
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MB C63 AMG
One of the guys in here just ran a 7.27 60-130 with the Eurocharged flex tune, but he is RWD. The stock TCU in the AWD platform is very restrictive in the lower gears.
Its not an apples to apples comparison I feel. What are the quarter mile times for comparison as well?
Its not an apples to apples comparison I feel. What are the quarter mile times for comparison as well?
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Are we talking w212 M157?
From the many logs I have seen and personally ran on numerous members cars here on the forum, Not much more you can do on pump than what Renntech is doing with their 93 octane tune ( Euro 98) on stock hardware. Can go more aggressive of course to the high edge but not very reasonable. So interesting to know if true, where that low 60-130 is being gained.
Speaking with GAD, they also confirmed to me there is no 3rd gear limiter on the MCT 7. 3rd gear or 60 MPH and above shouldn't be effected.
Last edited by 5soko; Jan 14, 2020 at 09:48 PM.
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MB C63 AMG
Thanks for chiming MrKi, you always bring good value and conversation.
Are we talking w212 M157?
From the many logs I have seen and personally ran on numerous members cars here on the forum, Not much more you can do on pump than what Renntech is doing with their 93 octane tune ( Euro 98) on stock hardware. Can go more aggressive of course to the high edge but not very reasonable. So interesting to know if true, where that low 60-130 is being gained.
Speaking with GAD, they also confirmed to me there is no 3rd gear limiter on the MCT 7. 3rd gear or 60 MPH and above shouldn't be effected.
Are we talking w212 M157?
From the many logs I have seen and personally ran on numerous members cars here on the forum, Not much more you can do on pump than what Renntech is doing with their 93 octane tune ( Euro 98) on stock hardware. Can go more aggressive of course to the high edge but not very reasonable. So interesting to know if true, where that low 60-130 is being gained.
Speaking with GAD, they also confirmed to me there is no 3rd gear limiter on the MCT 7. 3rd gear or 60 MPH and above shouldn't be effected.
In the first two gears the ratio is 4.86 and 2.86, so if you run 1000nm thats 4860Nm on the shaft ... so you have to reduce the torque in the first two gears to safe the drivetrain from damage.
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From: Houston Tx
2014 AMG E63S and 2020 AMG GTC
Pump gas 98 is between 7.5-7.7, with race gas/higher octan you can do a 7.1 - 7.3 on stock hardware.
In the first two gears the ratio is 4.86 and 2.86, so if you run 1000nm thats 4860Nm on the shaft ... so you have to reduce the torque in the first two gears to safe the drivetrain from damage.
In the first two gears the ratio is 4.86 and 2.86, so if you run 1000nm thats 4860Nm on the shaft ... so you have to reduce the torque in the first two gears to safe the drivetrain from damage.
Our transmissions are markedly different from the RWD ones.
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2014 E63 AMG
Here's my runs so far on the EC Flex Fuel Tune. I was running E85. This car is stock apart from the tune and it's RWD. I'm pretty certain in better conditions with a stickier tyre I can break into high 6 secs in the 60-130mph and high 5 secs 100-200kph.
I've recently been talking to a French guy who runs 2 X F150 raptors as work vehicles over here in France on E85. He uses an additive to lubricate everything. E85 is massive in France and there is alot of people changing over to it.
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MB C63 AMG
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2007 e350 sport. 2010 350 4matic sport. Worlds first W212 E63R self built.
Your quarter is suffering tho. You seem to be spinning a lot. Get that under control and you times should be killer
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CLS63 AMG
I averaged low 1.7s as well with the occasional high 1.6s at the track. Looking at the best W212s compared to W213s on dragtimes and the W212s are actually quicker, low 1.5s compared to low 1.6s. Don’t know if that means anything but it certainly implies that the older trans isn’t any worse.
tuned 4matic w212 are getting 3.0-3.2s at best while tuned w213 e63s are hitting 0-60 in 2.7-2.9s.
It seems based off this data that it certainly launches better and has less limiters in the software than our platform does in gears 1-2.
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The old conversations had 0 data and understanding of the TCU limiters and how they were put into effect.
I think 1 member here even had a tcu tune in the history of the forums lol. But this new data members have come up with has shown us what exactly is happening, and all renntech is doing is removing these limiters, so its a simple process. Its of course gonna make for 1/4 times and better racing results.
GAD cars are running low 10's and 140mph traps. They have 0 TCU limitation as shown by the datalogs in that thread.
Here is a GAD E63 including their tcu tune running a 137MPH trap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w_iM1xdHAQ
I think 1 member here even had a tcu tune in the history of the forums lol. But this new data members have come up with has shown us what exactly is happening, and all renntech is doing is removing these limiters, so its a simple process. Its of course gonna make for 1/4 times and better racing results.
GAD cars are running low 10's and 140mph traps. They have 0 TCU limitation as shown by the datalogs in that thread.
Here is a GAD E63 including their tcu tune running a 137MPH trap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w_iM1xdHAQ
ok so the one person here who installed the renntech TCU software ALONE without supporting hardware surprisingly broke the transmission shortly after, and on top of that only gained 0.1s faster in the first 2 gears.
the e63s in this video with the gad TCU certainly must have supporting hardware to go along with the TCU tune.
what we can gather so far then is that if the transmission is not going to be physically upgraded it’s unlikely for the TCU tune to work reliably unless maybe it’s only done on a stock car (and why anyone would do that is beyond me) at stock power levels.
Whichever way it’s done it’s seemingly only good for a safe limit of .1-.3s improvement at best in 1/4 mile, And crazy expensive especially with supporting hardware- just seems pointless at this stage for such minor improvements.
it will not be competitive with zf8 of f90 m5 TCU tuning or not
Last edited by Amg63-; Jan 19, 2020 at 06:14 AM.
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With my experience with the GAD TCU tune it does bring an advantage actually a huge one
limiting the torque in the first two gears that’s a must if you don’t want to snap the main shaft in the gearbox which is solid and can never be upgraded it is already the strongest part in the transmission, weight + power + good grip = something will snap
there is a limiter in all gears i.e, if the car comes out of the factory with 800nm rating then the TCU will have an 850nm max torque, so tuning the gear to bring the torque up depending on how much the engine will throw torque at it! If your car is running a tune most probably your tuner will show less torque to the gearbox so that it would accept it, eliminating that cheat will give your transmission more understanding in handling what’s coming between gear changes.
hope this sheds some light on the TCU tune.
my car is a C63 built with an M157 and has about 50-80 more whp than the GAD E63 on the video and it did a 9.5 in the quarter mile trapped 147, 60’ in 1.51 I think it is more weight than anything
limiting the torque in the first two gears that’s a must if you don’t want to snap the main shaft in the gearbox which is solid and can never be upgraded it is already the strongest part in the transmission, weight + power + good grip = something will snap
there is a limiter in all gears i.e, if the car comes out of the factory with 800nm rating then the TCU will have an 850nm max torque, so tuning the gear to bring the torque up depending on how much the engine will throw torque at it! If your car is running a tune most probably your tuner will show less torque to the gearbox so that it would accept it, eliminating that cheat will give your transmission more understanding in handling what’s coming between gear changes.
hope this sheds some light on the TCU tune.
my car is a C63 built with an M157 and has about 50-80 more whp than the GAD E63 on the video and it did a 9.5 in the quarter mile trapped 147, 60’ in 1.51 I think it is more weight than anything
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CLS63 AMG
So my question on that would be why can’t the tuner also cheat the transmission in the first 2 gears, by making it believe it’s getting a lot less torque than it’s actually getting?
it seemingly is only working in the higher gears
also I thought from gear 3-7 those limiters weren’t there anymore, now it sounds like they are present in all gears to some degree
it seemingly is only working in the higher gears
also I thought from gear 3-7 those limiters weren’t there anymore, now it sounds like they are present in all gears to some degree
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From: NYC
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With my experience with the GAD TCU tune it does bring an advantage actually a huge one
limiting the torque in the first two gears that’s a must if you don’t want to snap the main shaft in the gearbox which is solid and can never be upgraded it is already the strongest part in the transmission, weight + power + good grip = something will snap
there is a limiter in all gears i.e, if the car comes out of the factory with 800nm rating then the TCU will have an 850nm max torque, so tuning the gear to bring the torque up depending on how much the engine will throw torque at it! If your car is running a tune most probably your tuner will show less torque to the gearbox so that it would accept it, eliminating that cheat will give your transmission more understanding in handling what’s coming between gear changes.
hope this sheds some light on the TCU tune.
my car is a C63 built with an M157 and has about 50-80 more whp than the GAD E63 on the video and it did a 9.5 in the quarter mile trapped 147, 60’ in 1.51 I think it is more weight than anything
limiting the torque in the first two gears that’s a must if you don’t want to snap the main shaft in the gearbox which is solid and can never be upgraded it is already the strongest part in the transmission, weight + power + good grip = something will snap
there is a limiter in all gears i.e, if the car comes out of the factory with 800nm rating then the TCU will have an 850nm max torque, so tuning the gear to bring the torque up depending on how much the engine will throw torque at it! If your car is running a tune most probably your tuner will show less torque to the gearbox so that it would accept it, eliminating that cheat will give your transmission more understanding in handling what’s coming between gear changes.
hope this sheds some light on the TCU tune.
my car is a C63 built with an M157 and has about 50-80 more whp than the GAD E63 on the video and it did a 9.5 in the quarter mile trapped 147, 60’ in 1.51 I think it is more weight than anything
I have heard of output shaft or main shafts breaking with high tq in 1st and 2nd gear, so this must be true. And from what i was told, to replace this, the trans needs to be remove and fully opened.
A friend of mine in Germany told me the tq limiters are in the first 2 gears, and GAD confirmed that 1st gear 650nm and 2nd gear 750nm limiters, and 3rd gear and up, "No limits". I have never seen the table in the tcu for tq limits so im not sure, as most trans i have seen have a tq limit of some kind for EVERY gear. But if GAD says 3rd gear and up have "no limits" and are "open" i cant argue lol. You may know more information on this as alot gets lost in translation in text sometimes.
Yup they do this in the BMW trans world alot, esp for the ZF 8 speeds. They mis-calculate tq output values lower from the ecu to the tcu, so the trans thinks everything is below tq levels so no limiters are hit, but in reality you are actually pushing ALOT more TQ then registered and told to the tcu.
Negative side to this, the trans is being lied to and is operating with incorrect line pressure and clutch clamping force.
If you do get a TCU tune, you have to make sure you ECU tune is calculating tq to the tcu correctly and true, so they can work in harmony.
Problem is, sometimes tuners will lie and not tell the truth about this aspect even if the customer asks for whatever reason. The easy way i know to tell is to datalog. If you load values are higher than stock then most likely your tune is accurately calculating tq.
I remember reading alot about your car over on the benz boost forums. Monster!
Last edited by 5soko; Jan 19, 2020 at 10:14 PM.
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also what about how traction control affects 3rd gear as before Brutus was saying unless it’s off 3rd gear still has some intrusions
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thanks, so does that mean in 3-7 the limits are still there but they are irrelevant because they are so high that no tune actually makes that much to hit them?
also what about how traction control affects 3rd gear as before Brutus was saying unless it’s off 3rd gear still has some intrusions
also what about how traction control affects 3rd gear as before Brutus was saying unless it’s off 3rd gear still has some intrusions
Also referring to your last post, from what i know, there is only so much under reporting of tq you can do in the ecu to the tcu before drive ability problems and other issue arise, that is why you cant completely 'cheat' the tq limiters.
Last edited by 5soko; Jan 19, 2020 at 10:12 PM.
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I can only say what my friend and GAD have told me, as i personally have not seen the stock TCU tq limiting tables, i edited my post above if you would to like to re-read a updated post.
Also referring to your last post, from what i know, there is only so much under reporting of tq you can do in the ecu to the tcu before drive ability problems and other issue arise, that is why you cant completely 'cheat' the tq limiters.
Also referring to your last post, from what i know, there is only so much under reporting of tq you can do in the ecu to the tcu before drive ability problems and other issue arise, that is why you cant completely 'cheat' the tq limiters.
I totally understand what your saying and I agree with what GAD is telling you.
the only question I’m wondering about is specific to the 3rd gear torque limiters if that’s dependent on needing traction control to be turned off, or if it’s “open” even with it turned on in sport mode. I ask this because the logs seemed to show from brutus_tx that it needed TC off to fully de limit them only in that specific gear.
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Very much appreciate you jumping in and giving such good info.
I have heard of output shaft or main shafts breaking with high tq in 1st and 2nd gear, so this must be true. And from what i was told, to replace this, the trans needs to be remove and fully opened.
A friend of mine in Germany told me the tq limiters are in the first 2 gears, and GAD confirmed that 1st gear 650nm and 2nd gear 750nm limiters, and 3rd gear and up, "No limits". I have never seen the table in the tcu for tq limits so im not sure, as most trans i have seen have a tq limit of some kind for EVERY gear. But if GAD says 3rd gear and up have "no limits" and are "open" i cant argue lol. You may know more information on this as alot gets lost in translation in text sometimes.
Yup they do this in the BMW trans world alot, esp for the ZF 8 speeds. They mis-calculate tq output values lower from the ecu to the tcu, so the trans thinks everything is below tq levels so no limiters are hit, but in reality you are actually pushing ALOT more TQ then registered and told to the tcu.
Negative side to this, the trans is being lied to and is operating with incorrect line pressure and clutch clamping force.
If you do get a TCU tune, you have to make sure you ECU tune is calculating tq to the tcu correctly and true, so they can work in harmony.
Problem is, sometimes tuners will lie and not tell the truth about this aspect even if the customer asks for whatever reason. The easy way i know to tell is to datalog. If you load values are higher than stock then most likely your tune is accurately calculating tq.
I remember reading alot about your car over on the benz boost forums. Monster!
I have heard of output shaft or main shafts breaking with high tq in 1st and 2nd gear, so this must be true. And from what i was told, to replace this, the trans needs to be remove and fully opened.
A friend of mine in Germany told me the tq limiters are in the first 2 gears, and GAD confirmed that 1st gear 650nm and 2nd gear 750nm limiters, and 3rd gear and up, "No limits". I have never seen the table in the tcu for tq limits so im not sure, as most trans i have seen have a tq limit of some kind for EVERY gear. But if GAD says 3rd gear and up have "no limits" and are "open" i cant argue lol. You may know more information on this as alot gets lost in translation in text sometimes.
Yup they do this in the BMW trans world alot, esp for the ZF 8 speeds. They mis-calculate tq output values lower from the ecu to the tcu, so the trans thinks everything is below tq levels so no limiters are hit, but in reality you are actually pushing ALOT more TQ then registered and told to the tcu.
Negative side to this, the trans is being lied to and is operating with incorrect line pressure and clutch clamping force.
If you do get a TCU tune, you have to make sure you ECU tune is calculating tq to the tcu correctly and true, so they can work in harmony.
Problem is, sometimes tuners will lie and not tell the truth about this aspect even if the customer asks for whatever reason. The easy way i know to tell is to datalog. If you load values are higher than stock then most likely your tune is accurately calculating tq.
I remember reading alot about your car over on the benz boost forums. Monster!
GAD transmission is not just a bunch of clutches and a tune
tune + MCT upgrade + transmission upgrade
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E550
You guys are posting some great results with the flex fuel tune. I have the eurocharged reg 93oct tune on my cls63. I am curious what kind of dragy 1/4 trap speeds and 60-130 times were you guys seeing with their 93 oct tune (If you had it). Would love to see how these compare to that tune or even your stock times and traps.
Thanks
Erik
Thanks
Erik
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From: Houston Tx
2014 AMG E63S and 2020 AMG GTC
You guys are posting some great results with the flex fuel tune. I have the eurocharged reg 93oct tune on my cls63. I am curious what kind of dragy 1/4 trap speeds and 60-130 times were you guys seeing with their 93 oct tune (If you had it). Would love to see how these compare to that tune or even your stock times and traps.
Thanks
Erik
Thanks
Erik
Going back through my draggy data, my 60-130s went from an average of 8.8 pre flex tune down to 7.8 with the new flex tune.
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E550
I can only speak to my results, but my best when I started down this road with the EC 93 octane tune was in the 11.5 at 125mph range. It was only after I switched to the flex fuel tune that I really started to see traps in the 128 to 129 mph range, and times down to 11.0 flat.
Going back through my draggy data, my 60-130s went from an average of 8.8 pre flex tune down to 7.8 with the new flex tune.
Going back through my draggy data, my 60-130s went from an average of 8.8 pre flex tune down to 7.8 with the new flex tune.
Erik
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CLS63 AMG
You guys are posting some great results with the flex fuel tune. I have the eurocharged reg 93oct tune on my cls63. I am curious what kind of dragy 1/4 trap speeds and 60-130 times were you guys seeing with their 93 oct tune (If you had it). Would love to see how these compare to that tune or even your stock times and traps.
Thanks
Erik
Thanks
Erik
Is 8.8 60-130 that your getting the average time for the EC 93 octane tune? It seems rather low as a stock one does it in about 9 seconds.
EC has 2 maps for pump gas tune. Is this the more aggressive stage 2 version or stage 1 map?
Last edited by Amg63-; Jan 21, 2020 at 01:02 PM.
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E550
8.8x is my best to date. Thru communications with them it should be its their most aggressive 93 oct tune. I felt it might have been a slow too but from what ive seen on dragy and what brutus is saying it seems about right. I wish i had HPtuners to datalog my car. thats next on the list
