Good day...

Most of you who have been following my journey of tuning my car in this thread... https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...rformance.html
will know that I have spent many months slowly having Jerry at Eurocharged work his magic on my car, a 2014 E63S..

As we progressed on this journey, my goals for the tune evolved as my understanding of the car evolved.

My evolved remit for this tune ultimately was that I wanted a tune that provided the following items... Jerry did not disappoint.

1. The tune had to be OEM like in power delivery as a daily driver at part throttle (this was always a must)
2. The tune had to work within the confines of the OEM hardware. (another must.. the OEM hardware has some serious engineering behind it)
3. The tune had to accommodate ethanol fuel (because I'm too cheap for race gas)
4. The tune needed to be switchable between 93 octane and some maximum ethanol blend (for my car this turned out to be E50)
5. The tune had to be able to work with the OEM components (stock everything - as my car is stock intake and full stock exhaust - minus mufflers)
6. The tune needed to make power up top in the RPM range while limiting torque in the lower RPMs. (I hated how the power would fall off up top and how the TCU would intrude on the fun down low)

For number 6 Jerry was partially successful.
He managed to move the max torque much further up into the RPM range, and as a result the tune made much more power up top - we saw 700 awhp at one point.
I've made many runs down the quarter mile over two different weekends and backed it up with many draggy runs on private roads over the last few months.

The car still has the stock TCU tune, and Jerry has done an admirable job of staying within the torque management parameters dictated by the stock TCU.
When in "maximum attack" mode we've found that brake boosting and turning TC off, while having the transmission in Sport+ netted us the best times at the track. When configured like this we only saw one run when the nervous nellies in the Transmission put a halt to the fun... of course this was when we pulled a 1.6 60' and were on our way to a 10.9 run, before the TCU shut the throttle.

Here's the car during testing on the first night at the track.. Houston Raceway Royal Purple Raceway, in Baytown TX.
Followers of the other thread will know I experienced fuel cut on that evening because the car's injectors couldn't keep up with the demands placed on it by the E60 blend.




The week following this picture, we went back out with a revised tune and a slightly less aggressive ethanol blend in the tank.. E50. This time I was car 555...







After these runs I continued to run a blend of E50 in the tank during my weekly commute to work.
Daily drive-ability has not been affected, but my fuel economy has suffered somewhat, owing to the ethanol in the tank.
It's a wash though because it costs much less to fill the tank up now.

For the last three weeks I have been filling my car up at the local HEB grocery store here in Houston. They make it convenient because I can get E85 and 93 at the same pump.
Once the low fuel light comes on I put 9 gallons of E85, followed by 8 gallons of 93 in the tank. This is good for a E50 (50% ethanol) concentration, but just as important... 100 octane.
Ethanol is $1.80/gallon while 93 is ~ $3.00/gallon... or around $40 for 17 gallons of 100 octane fuel.

This is the last dyno we took with E50 in the tank... this is the power I now make daily.
These cars love the higher octane when tuned for it!




There are a lot of tunes out there that make more torque than I do, but not many that make the same amount of power... and at 17 psi to boot.
By purposefully retarding torque down low, the car is able to adapt much better in the higher rpm's.

If anyone is in the Houston area and would like to meet up, I'd be more than happy to show you the results of the tune.

Hats off to Jerry at Eurocharged. They have a great tune here. Anyone else who has recently picked up this tune, I'd like to hear their impressions.

 

Thanks for all your experimentation and data, man! It's been very fun and informative following the other thread.

One question: During normal highway driving, I do enjoy the low-end torque of the "stock curve" since I can pass in top gear most of the time and there's no torque management after the first 2 gears. How does your tune feel for that scenario?

 

Awesome job brotha! Question since the ecu can adapt to see the e50 fuel mix can the ecu adapt to see high octan mix? Would be great to see a tune that involves 93 and adapting to 105+ Considering that there wouldn’t be a fuel pump pressure issue staying with gas. Awesome research and data

 

The car drives the same as normal. Passing was never an issue for these cars but it's even more effortless now. On the highway top end power seems limitless. If you are committed, you will feel the car pull and pull all the way through the rpm range right up until gear change.

With the power levels I am at, you still have to drive around the TCU limitations, even in third gear, because the TCU is still expecting normal power levels.

I normally drive in sport mode and sport TC to counteract this. If I get on it hard there are still times when the TCU closes the throttle slightly to moderate torque in 3rd even when driving with TC in sport. Turn it off and the TCU doesn't intrude in 3rd.

Until I get a proper TCU tune I'm at about the max I can throw at this car in the lower RPMs.

This answer your question?

 

Thanks brutus

do you work for Jerry or get compensated by him in any way directly or indirectly?

excellent writeup

 

When we reviewed the run file when we put the car on the dyno with the E50 blend there was still plenty of headroom left with timing.

I'm curious about throwing some race gas on top of the E50 blend to increase the octane without increasing the ethanol as well. I asked Jerry this question yesterday.

I expect with more octane I will make more power. How much? I don't know.

The next time I'm at the track and hitting 11.05 at 129.... I may throw some 104 octane on top to see if that gets me over the line.

 

Nope, though it would appear so as I've become quite the fan boi.

I have been able to work directly with Jerry on the evolution of my tune, for both our benefit. I've received many multiple dyno pulls for free, using my car as the test mule for a Stage 1 tune.
I've also been given access to datalogging software to allow us both to access the tuning process. So, yes I was compensated in that regard. I will be buying my own HPTuner data logger in the near future as I return the equipment to Eurocharged after every track session.

I paid for my original tune plus the mygenius handheld flasher. I paid what's everyone else paid.

I just like tweaking with my car safely. It's the engineer in me.

I don't get kick back or royalties for any tunes they sell. It was never my intention. I'm just tired of all the smoke and mirrors that seem to surround the aftermarket.

I told Jerry I was going to be transparent in a thread on MB World. He wasn't fazed. Lol. Apparently he's confident in his tuning abilities. You can afford to be cocky when you're good. Lol.

 

I was wondering about the scenario of: 7th gear gear in manual mode, and then you stomp it. There's no downshift because it's in manual so it's all low-end power. I wasn't sure whether, with your tune's power curve, that some sacrifice would be made there in favor of the high-end. But looking at your graphs again, it doesn't seem like the lower end is really losing that much over a "normal" tune.

 

That's not something I've tried to be honest. Realistically though, is this a scenario we would use in normal driving? Having said that, the car is still making gobs of torque down low, just not as much as others.

 

Yea, I'm usually in some auto mode so it would downshift into higher RPMs, Every now and then though, I putt around in manual because I miss driving stick! In that case I usually stay in higher gears longer than normal.

 

beutus - thx again for the awesome research you’ve shared to all our benefit!

id you were to throw race gas (100 or 110 octane) into your current tune set up with E85 would the car automatically adapt and benefit from the higher octane? Or do you need to get it tuned again for the race fuel plus e85??

 

I don't know.

I'm waiting on Jerry for a response.
I'll update the thread when he gets back to me.

Honestly though I don't see it being an issue.

 

Here's an update on the flex tune.

The following dyno is running 93 octane using the same tune as the E50 blend.
As mentioned previously, the car adapts to the various blends from straight 93 (10% ethanol and 93 octane) to E50 (50% ethanol and 100 octane)



Straight 93 octane gas nets me ~635 AWHP and 720 AWTQ... using 15% DTL as an estimate this puts me at 750bhp and 850 lb-ft torque.



E50 blend nets me ~680 AWHP and 780 AWTQ... using 15% DTL as an estimate this puts me at 800bhp and 920 lb-ft torque.

The addition of the increased octane allows the tune to make much more power.
I'm going to the track again soon.
We've seen what the E50 blend gets me.... 11.0@129mph... I think I'm going to spring for the good stuff and try a tank of 104 Race Gas to see if I can crack into the 10's tune only.

 

Brutus - if you try the 104 race gas, will your current tune adapt to that OR do you need Jerry to update the tune for 104? Im sure to optimize performance its best to adjust the tune for 104 octane, but if your tuned ECU can adapt to that higher octane and produce more power without a re-tune that would be very interesting!

 

The tune adapts... it doesn't care were the increase in octane is coming from.
The tune I have will still adapt for higher octane then I was running according to indications from the tune.
We can make this assumption based on the fact the ECU was adding timing into the tune during my dyno runs...an indicator the car could benefit from more octane.

When I run again with 104 in the tank I will make sure to log all the data and compare fuel trims and timing etc.

We are hoping to get to the track soon...

 

This is awesome... glad someone is making a push on the E85 side of things.

 

Let me know when you're going to the track.

 

brutus this is awesome stuff....so is E50 (93 plus E85 = 100 octane)) and straight 100 octane fuel essentially the same then?

Or are there differences in how the car sensors and cats react to the E50 vs the straight 100 octane??

certainly the cost benefit of E50 is fantastic but was wondering if it’s any more/less safe on the motor or sensors/cats thank straight 100 octane fuel.

apologies if that’s a stupid question as I significantly lack the deep engineering brain power that you have to figure all this stuff out .

 

Will do... we haven't set a date yet but hopefully sometime in December.

There are differences.

While the octane rating may be the same between the fuel types, and the power being made is the same, how the engine goes about making power are slightly different.
This all has to do with the energy density differences between Ethanol and Gasoline.
Ethanol is much less energy dense than Gasoline, which is why you need more of it to create the same amount of energy.

First things first though, the car needs to have a tune which can accommodate the higher octane.
Putting high octane fuel in a gas tank with a car running a stock tune doesn't net you anything. In fact, you may make less power due to timing retard.

You need to have a tune that can adapt for higher octane, and a tune that can identify the presence of ethanol. My tune does both.
Your tune needs to be able to account for the differences in octane. If your car is running a stock tune, putting high octane gas in the tank does very little to improve performance because the stock fuel maps only allow limited timing advance.
Secondly, your ECU needs to be able to identify the percentage of ethanol in the tank as it can determine which fuel map to run. When the ECU recognizes the presence of ethanol it knows it needs to increase the fuel injection rate to account for the reduction in energy density. Its for this reason that your fuel economy suffers.. you need more Ethanol based fuel to make the same amount of power as gasoline.

Two potential con's then for running E50 in my car are:
1. reduced fuel efficiency... I see around 15-17 mpg now.
2. unknown long term effects of ethanol concentrations on the fuel delivery system

Some pro's though which I feel outweigh the cons are:
1. ethanol burns cooler and "washes" the cylinder walls
2. EGTs are reduced as a result of the cooler combustion temps. The Cats will like this.
3. a blended tank of fuel is much cheaper than running an equivalent amount of 93 octane, and makes more power
4. much more knock resistant due to the increased octane, power is linear under WOT

How do I combat the cons?
Well, if any of us are worried about #1 Con, then we bought the wrong car.
#2 con is a concern obviously. I combat that issue by using Shell 93 with Techron as the gas portion of the blend. It has lubricants and detergents which I hope will alleviate some of the effects of ethanol. I'm also comforted by the fact that the cars are designed from factory to accommodate 10% ethanol and I assume the engineers will have built in design tolerance to allow for an increased amount of ethanol. Time will tell if my assumptions are right.

My tune is hardware limited right now to E50. During track testing we found that there is a ceiling to how much fuel can be delivered by the pumps to the injectors though on my vehicle. I experienced fuel cut at E60 because the injectors couldn't keep up with demand. I backed off to E50 and things were fine and within normal parameters again. If I want to go full E85 I will need to upgrade my high pressure fuel pump. If I want to increase the octane in my tank to try and tap into the extra timing I have in the tune, I'm going to have to do it with the addition of higher octane race gas on top on top of the E50. This is the only way I can safely increase the octane currently.

Does this help answer your question?

The googlers are your friend. There is a wealth of information available on line which can help you educate yourself with. It doesn't hurt if you have a friendly neighborhood tuner you can ask questions of as well.

 

Brutus

Thank you all your effort and time you have invested in the development of this tune with Eurocharged. Your write ups have been very informative.

I use my E63 as my daily driver and i think the tune that you and Jerry have developed is the smartest one on the market for a performance boost and daily driving reliability.

Do you know if Jerry is selling this tune to the public.

Thanks
Matt

 

Brutus super helpful thank you for the reply and explanation to my question! Very interested to know what results you see if you do the addition of race gas to your E50 tune...am sure it will be unreal. Thx!

 

Matt

I spoke with Jerry and he will sell this specific tune to customers.
To ensure you get the correct tune you will need to specify the "EC Stage 1 Flex Fuel Tune".
Just email Jerry@eurocharged.com and request same.
Good luck, have fun and post up your experiences once you've gotten the tune.

 

Brutus ,

Thank you for the follow up!! I have an email into Eurocharged referencing this tread. Hopefully it connects to your solution. If not I will call them and get the right tune.

Once I it is installed I will report back my view on the tune.

Matt

 

I thought you'd said that the tune just switched between a couple fixed maps depending upon the level of knock encountered. Is there an ethanol sensor?

 

Understand that I'm not a tuner, but in discussions with Jerry and others apparently the ECU does not directly have the ability to recognize ethanol, albeit without an ethanol sensor, but it can be enabled in the tune to account for the use of ethanol. How this is performed I've no idea. All I know is it works. Using data obtained from the knock sensors and O2 sensors, the ECU has all it needs to monitor combustion and adjust fuel flow accordingly. I'm guessing here, but I assume telling the ECU to allow for the use of ethanol, that it also gains access to additional fuel maps that Jerry adds to the tune. I could be wrong here, but this is my basic understanding. My apologies if you already know this, but the ECU in our cars actively 'search' for the point of pinging. The knock sensor continuously listen to the combustion of fuel, based on that the ECU determines how close it is to knocking. Knocking is audible even to the untrained human ear, but knock sensors can also detect near knocking situations. It is this most important functionality that makes the tune switch between fuel maps. When running higher octane, the car will adjust timing based on the lack of knock (remember higher octane means higher knock resistance) and advance the timing to allow for more power. When going the other way, like when I put a tank of 93 in car, the knock sensors will start detecting knock and retard timing and move the tune to different and less aggressive fuel maps. The ECU continually adjusts the timing to make sure the engine doesn't actually ping, but advances as much as is possible if needed.
Couple this with the O2 sensor readings in the exhaust post combustion and you can adjust fuel, air and timing as required..... once again assuming your cars tune accounts for this.

This help in any way?

Happy Thanksgiving by the way...