brutus_tx

To add more content and proof of performance, here's a run from this morning in 55°F temps. This car is equipped with the top 6 items noted in the beginning post.
You've got to love negative DA. I was running E42 in 3/4 tank on this run.

PeterUbers

Love it! I'm gunna fill up on E40 now and get some runs in - we are at 45F

Windowguy

Good work. When I get my 2016 one day I know what to do.

Thanks,
Rob.

JAYCL600

Big things coming. #m157gang

StealthE63

I'm new on this forum but have been lurking for a little while. Recently picked up an E63S and have plans to mod it. My performance goals for the car are pretty similar to what Brutus has done. I just wanted to thank Brutus and everyone else for their contribution to this community and documenting/sharing the info they accumulated. Until recently, there really was no sort of "mod guide" for these cars.

Prior to the E63 I had an E55, C63, and CTS-V. It was always easy to find fully detailed step-by-step guides for a mod path to reach whatever anyone's performance goals were. I was a little surprised to see that wasn't the case for the W212 AMG, especially considering how long they've been available.

Anyway, I've ordered the BB intakes, ECU and TCU tune for now. Will be gutting the cats later and maybe some other things. I'm not wanting to pursue anything beyond what the stock turbochargers are capable of. Along my modding process if there's any info I can contribute to help the community, just let me know.

brutus_tx

Thanks for that. I appreciate it. We have a great group of people in here and the knowledge gained is slowly getting out there.

I had a gentlemen reach out to me with a stock 2016 E63S a month ago regarding recommended mods.

Well 1 month later, after a ECC E40 and TCU tune, ECE engine mounts and a BB Intake and some time practicing brake boosting he logged his first few runs.

He didn't do to bad out the gate. Lol.

StealthE63

Thanks for providing that, its pretty much where I'll be in a few weeks time. Very impressive 1/4 mile time, 0-60 and trap speed.

JesseB

I'm the guy he is talking about. Everything he advises here is legit! If you do the mods listed here, your car will run in the 10's easily. Thanks for all the tips Brutus! My TCU and ECU E40 tune were done by ATX Eurocharged in Round Rock, TX. Have ECE motor mounts and Black Boost intake, courtesy of BoostedBenz. Still running all stock exhaust at the moment.

JesseB

I'm the guy he is talking about. Everything he advises here is legit! If you do the mods listed here, your car will run in the 10's easily. Thanks for all the tips Brutus! My TCU and ECc E40 tune were done by ATX Eurocharged in Round Rock, TX. Still running all stock exhaust at the moment.

StealthE63

Thats awesome, I figure I'll do the engine at the same time as downpipes. I think I remember hearing the mounts needing to be moved in order to fit the downpipes.

CLPR87

Brett - first of all thank you for posting this!!

Curious about your experience with the ProMeth kits since their website is pretty bland on information and the differences between Stage 1, 2, 3 aren't really shown. Presumably it's just differences in pump flow output and nozzle sizes. Are most guys who use ProMeth for water meth injection just running a 50/50 mix with the Stage 1 kit or would it make sense to go right to Stage 3 in case you want to vary the methanol/water ratio?

Texas E63

agree with all of this and appreciate the shared info - made moving into the E and selecting mods a bit easier, with the cat deletes, BB intake and E40 & TCU tune I am amazed..... very quickly realized I need to do rims/ tires next as grip is hard to keep ! Awesome work by EC Atx as always too....... had me in and out in 6 hours....200" hp happier ..

E

12CLS63

Are you purposely working with non upgraded turbos or is that coming to the list? Are any upgrades being done to the transmissions to go with the tunes or are they holding up fine as is? Also, are you guys spraying the meth pre or post intercooler? Having never had the engine on these apart, is there anything in the valley under the intercooler? Would it be possible to direct inject meth or NOS with all the plumbing and nozzles sitting down in the valley under the intercooler?

brutus_tx

This list was amassed as a direct result of the mods and testing a core group of enthusiasts performed over the last year and a half.
We have a E tune and TCU tune WhatsApp users forum for those of us afflicted with the modding bug.
A lot of the key contributors to MB World that are in the group.

Unfortunately very few of us have gone the upgraded turbos route yet, so we don't have any long term experience to make any assessment. Once we do, you'll be sure to hear our thoughts and general consensus on the mod.

Regarding the transmissions and TCU tunes, the vast majority of us in the group have opted for the TCU upgrade. No mechanical modifications to the transmissions have been performed, but we have identified a potential Achilles heal in the transmission... the output shaft. I believe 5 of the members have suffered output shaft failure. While being stranded on the side of the road is never fun, the cost to repair the transmission is not prohibitive for most of us. I believe the cost to repair is in the US $1500 range. The jury is still out on the actual cause but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you increase torque you increase risk.

What we think is happening is shock loading due to wheel hop. We can't point unequivocally at the increased torque as the guilty party because we have members running the transmission fully open with no issues after many multiple back to back launches, and one other who was on a stock TCU tune and had the output shaft shear and fail. Perhaps it's tire selection, launch method, or both. I think we are seeing it more with people running the TCU tune, because we are the people who are constantly abusing our cars regardless. It stands to reason we would experience a higher percentage of failure because we are the ones consistently launching the cars and exposing the cars to mechanical risk. With this knowledge and because we have control over the torque limits now, some of us are making use of the torque management to readjust the torque limits in the lower gears to help protect the output shaft a little by reducing the max available torque in first and second. The fact the TCU tune allows us to do this is fantastic and a game changer.
Now, depending on your risk profile, you have the tools to really dial in the transmission. Those people who are looking for that 1/4 mile record are more apt to open everything up and YOLO theirs runs. Others, myself included, who want the performance, but with a little safety margin still in play can tweak the TCU to their performance preference.
We are looking into options to cryo treat the output shaft as a potential solution. If you know anyone who can supply this service, we, as a group, would be interested in talking to them.

Regarding meth injection... far and away the best results (10.3 at 136 on stock turbos) are coming from meth injection post intercooler... those guys are all running a ProMeth setup. I am spraying pre intercooler and am seeing some benefit, but my IATS still climb under prolonged boost. My best to date is a 10.6 at 132.

The latest issue certain members are starting to see is intercooler issues when you approach the 21 to 22 psi boost range. We are seeing people start to loose coolant due to intercooler leaks under sustained boost. Those of us running 18 psi and below don't seem to have the same issue. As a result certain members are looking into Air to Air solutions for our cars. These nutters have 9's as their focus and I've no doubt they'll get there.

Thanks for the questions!

12CLS63

I'm actually into Fiero's a lot as well and they do the cryo stuff quite a bit so I'll ask around over there for a good number.

I'd love to join the forum as I'm all about the modifying of anything and the intricacies of the how and why are like crack to me. I've got a '14 cls63s I've been cleaning up the issues the PO introduced, but I'm about ready to head down the rabbit hole with this one and knowledge is power, as they say. DM if you don't want to blast it out to the world.

With the post intercooler meth spray I'm guessing they are doing a single nozzle right after the throttle body in the bend of the manifold?

I'd stay away from an a2a if they're going max speed. The a2a is going to get heat soaked and not be as efficient as a good a2w. I'd look instead at getting the intercooler core rebuilt and reinforced or a different a2w altogether. Going back to my previous question, if the valley is basically open you could take an aftermarket a2w and stand it on it's side laid down in the valley and stock intercooler location and possibly make that work. Would probably need to merge the air pipes coming from the turbos, but wouldn't be hard. The more I think about it though the more I think the core could be rebuilt pretty easyily since it's just a block. Is it the core or the housing of the intercoolers that are leaking?

How are the bottom ends holding up on these cars? The group mainly stock or starting to upgrade? I see weistec has a forged rods and pistons package for sale at a pretty penny, but has that been necessary for anyone yet?

brutus_tx

We are all stock bottom end... theses cars are stout! The E tunes seems tailor made for this platform. I've never seen an engine respond so well to ethanol. We rarely encounter knock and our only concern seems to be winter blend E requiring a slightly lower E % in the tank to keep things happy.

We have people evaluating A2A options as well as A2W options. The guys considering A2A are also spraying.

StealthE63

Based on the fact that stock motors are grenading transmissions i doubt many are inclined to build the engines even further. Seems a transmission upgrade is a higher priority.

brutus_tx

Clutches are good, gears are good... its the output shaft that appears to be the issue.
The transmissions have no issue holding the torque... per se.

The guys, like me, who load up the transmission and slowly release the brake as RPMs climb don't seem to be having any issues.
The guys who dump the brake seem to be having the issues.

The highest horsepower guy in the group has his TCU tune fully unrestricted and runs drag radials. His transmission is going on two years of abuse without a hiccup.
I honestly think its how we are launching and the tire selection that are key considerations.

I'm a risk adverse guy as well to be honest. I slowly developed my car to this level over the last 2 years. I'm comfortable with the level of performance we seem to be able to achieve and I think we still have some safety margin to play with.

We're all about full transparency. If this gives some people cause for concern, then they should consider backing off on their expectations for performance to maybe a lower level of performance.

12CLS63

What's required to run the E? I've seen on the s7 audis that the only things they need are doing fuel lines and high-pressure pumps.

Spraying NOS or just meth?

I've seen elsewhere that the comfort and sport/+ positions will set totally different maps. True? If so is it possible to run a summer and winter e tune or aggressive/conservative? Also, does it adjust the tranny map as well?

maxusa

As you know, the IC circuit received several upgrades in W212. First, the divorcing from the engine loop, and then the addition of the aux HE + better pump in the S-models. Alpha has a very good IC upgrade package with a fender tank, second pump, and dual main HE. Alpha also sells a larger aux HE. Renntech sells an IC HE upgrade package. Killer chiller in trunk. Hardwiring IC pumps or using a Tecomotive controller appears popular. I am sure that the main fan override switch can help IAT during queuing.

My sense for the traditional engine and transmission builds begin after Stage 2, ~720BHP, and depending on abuse. Getting over 800BHP is a responsible thing to do. Past 900BHP is a necessity. The output shaft is discussed by Brett above. The RWD drivetrain needs to be looked after 800BHP for axles. AWD holds slightly better.

Cifdig

I can’t lie I got cocky when I was able to do hundreds of launches with the tcu tune. I tried to brake boost even higher and met the limit of the output shaft. So we all stay under 2200 brake boost limit and roll off tge brake and apply gas gradually until you find the sweet spot.

12CLS63

My impression of the above intercooler talk was that turning up the boost resulted in the intercooler itself actually leaking. Not that it wasn't necessarily cooling adequately. Am I off with that?

What does "race start" hold the launch at? I was thinking it was in 3s, definitely not down in the low 2s.

brutus_tx

If running the EC Jerry E50 tune or the ECC Slave E40 tune, then that's all you need - one of these tunes. If opting for a full blown E70 tune (100% E85 in the tank) you will need HPFP's and its recommended to get uprated larger diameter low pressure fuel lines and pumps as well. The price for a E70 kit is comparable to a aftermarket turbo set up... so its a wash up whether to go full E70 fuel setup or big turbo.

I spray a 50/50 blend of water and meth.. the ProMeth guys are spraying a higher percentage of methanol, I think in the 65% range methanol.

I can't speak to what maps are affected by what setting, as I only ever run in Sport+ mode. You can run different tunes, either by uploading via a handheld tuner or swapping ECU. I know Slav was working on map switching but I don't know where he ended up with that.

The tranny map sits resident on the TCU and is completely separate from the ECU. While they obviously interact with each other, they are separate standalone tunes. To modify the TCU map, you'd need a separate tune.

You are correct... at higher boost levels (22psi+) some guys seem to be experiencing partial intercooler separation causing loss of coolant.

Race Start definitely launches at a higher RPM, but traction control is still enabled and will interfere with the launch... it will modulate throttle and hence boost to restrict torque. RS launches typically are no better than a 1.8 60ft, with the majority a 1.9 60'.
Brake boosting is done with TC completely off, relying on torque management in the TCU to modulate the launch. We typically launch around 2200 rpm... our best member run to date was a 1.4x 60ft but we consistently see 1.6x 60' launches via brake boost with a bunch of the guys.

WANTED!!

Why not a billet replacement instead?

brutus_tx

If we could find one there'd be a ready market of guys willing to trial them.