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I'm actually into Fiero's a lot as well and they do the cryo stuff quite a bit so I'll ask around over there for a good number.
I'd love to join the forum as I'm all about the modifying of anything and the intricacies of the how and why are like crack to me. I've got a '14 cls63s I've been cleaning up the issues the PO introduced, but I'm about ready to head down the rabbit hole with this one and knowledge is power, as they say. DM if you don't want to blast it out to the world.
With the post intercooler meth spray I'm guessing they are doing a single nozzle right after the throttle body in the bend of the manifold?
I'd stay away from an a2a if they're going max speed. The a2a is going to get heat soaked and not be as efficient as a good a2w. I'd look instead at getting the intercooler core rebuilt and reinforced or a different a2w altogether. Going back to my previous question, if the valley is basically open you could take an aftermarket a2w and stand it on it's side laid down in the valley and stock intercooler location and possibly make that work. Would probably need to merge the air pipes coming from the turbos, but wouldn't be hard. The more I think about it though the more I think the core could be rebuilt pretty easyily since it's just a block. Is it the core or the housing of the intercoolers that are leaking?
How are the bottom ends holding up on these cars? The group mainly stock or starting to upgrade? I see weistec has a forged rods and pistons package for sale at a pretty penny, but has that been necessary for anyone yet?
Air to air has been tested in the middle east on a W205 c63s and they have had very good results on testing and r&d comparisons and it mostly depend on final goal, if car spends alot of time in traffic definitely w2a would be more beneficial.
As was noted in the original thread, when I did the initial hardware list a few of the items typically found on a mods list where suspiciously left off it. This was for a reason. At the time, some of the components we were testing were not providing tangible benefit to the small group of people in our group, i.e Intakes and Water Meth systems. As the old adage goes…”If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say it.” So at the time I didn’t.
What started as a very small group of nutters over a year ago who wanted to evolve the Ethanol and TCU tuning capacities of this platform… the W212 engine, has turned into a core group of enthusiasts with a vast background in aftermarket modding. The group has expanded greatly since then, and with it opportunities to test different mods on our cars to see what works and what doesn’t. Our focus has changed somewhat as well in our quest to make our cars faster, and we all wanted to break into the 10’s. Guys are out almost daily testing and evaluating products and reporting back. They are an absolute gem of a group of guys.
In our quest to top the W212 Quarter Mile leaderboard we have left no stone unturned. As a result, we’ve been very successful as a group, with the vast majority of us all safely well into the 10’s in the quarter mile now. As a snapshot, 3 of the top 5 today on the draggy ¼ mile leaderboard below contribute to testing and sharing results daily.
I’ve also amassed a master spreadsheet of the different members and their hardware configurations. It’s because of this spreadsheet that I am able to identify which components added to the increased performance and by what amount. Here is a snippet of the data set.
All these guys are out there testing these hardware configurations.. hats off to them.
With the benefit of hindsight and continuous testing and logging amongst our group I’m confident that the following list of mods, done in order of precedent, will net you the best returns. Doing all the mods will net you a low 10 second car with stock turbos.
Disclaimer… I received zero compensation from any of the vendor's noted below. This is just an amalgamation of all the best products and testing performed to date by our little group of enthusiasts.
Without further ado…
If starting with a clean slate the following mods are recommended in order of best performance gains, with recommended venders based on our overwhelming test data.
1. TCU tune (look to other threads that discuss TCU tunes for more background – vast majority are running EC Canada Slavs white label German TCU tune) The TCU tune allows immediate access to all available stock horsepower in all gears. A TCU tuned Stock ECU car was shown to be faster out of the hole then a stock TCU Tuned ECU car.
2. ECU tune (without getting into a pissing match, the fact is the vast majority of the cars running in the 10’s are on either EC Jerry’s Ethanol tune, or EC Canada’s Slav’s ethanol tune – facts) These guys are on top of their game and the tunes stand on their own.
3. Grippier Tires (rear) Traction will suddenly become an issue off the line – better tires are needed. MT Streets have proven the best DR for dedicated track use… R888r’s are a good overall compromise for track and street.
4. ECE billet Mounts (install once and done - saves on multiple OEM mount installs – I went through 3 sets of OEM ones.. what a waste of money) With the added torque on tap from the above mods…. you will need new mounts sooner than later. Just bite the bullet and get the ECE ones.
5. High Flow Intake (the recent availability of the Black Boost Intake has blown away any performance gains arguments held previously – this is the only intake tested that has shown remarkable gains - https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...ck-intake.html no other product has shown a 0.5 second improvement in 60-130 times. The improved top end performance is undeniable and documented. Boosted Benz is your local contact.
6. Catless downpipes (Red Star make a great product, but just removing the CAT Cores in the stock downpipes has been shown to be cheaper and just as good)
If you have the above mods, and assuming you’ve kept up with maintenance, fluids and stock plugs at stock gap, then you will have a field proven 10.6 to 10.8 second car on your hands.
If you are not satisfied with a ~10.7 and want to go faster, then you need to look to cooling mods and lowering rotational mass. As such consider the following:
7. A water meth system. The recommended system is from ProMeth. The placement of the water meth nozzles are critical though. Testing of the systems that were sold by Weistec, Renntech and others which placed the nozzles in the charge pipes showed minimal gains for the money spent. Best performance has come from injecting the methanol near the air to water intercooler. This requires pulling the intercooler to make the modifications, meaning it’s more expensive to install. Once dialed in though, the car becomes a true beast. Cars running these kits are in the 10.3 to 10.5 range, on stock turbos.
8. Lighter Rims (lowers rotational mass)… if you remove the aesthetic look of aftermarket rims from the equation, the price of admission is a hard sell, and why it’s at the bottom of the list. With lighter rims and wider tires though, you will see a net benefit in improved times, and for that reason is included in the list.
I hope the list above is of benefit to people, especially those new to the platform looking to improve performance.
Hopefully you can get benefit from our learnings.
I urge members of our E Tune and TCU Tune WhatsApp Chats to post up to back up / refute my comments above.
If anyone has issue that their product of choice is not noted above, then I challenge you to go out and test the products performance and post up verifiable claims in this thread. My list is not exhaustive, and if there are products out there that our fellow enthusiasts could benefit from knowing about... then post up. I caveat that though... dyno plots are almost useless in the real world. Real world 0-60, 60ft, 1/8 Mile, 1/4 mile and 60-130 (100-200) performance gains are the metric we most refer to.
The issue is it isn't just a shaft, if it was I'd have already had some spun up in 300M or the like. It has a planetary gearset welded to one end and depending on which year/model of M157 it is sitting behind the planetary gearset differs slightly. There are 4 variations that I'm aware of. Machine work would be required to remove the planetary from the OEM shaft then reinstall and weld to the upgraded output shaft and I haven't found anyone willing to do it. Also without a way to source the planetary gearset itself a good gearset would be required which would mean sending yours in for the modification or the purchase of an OEM part which will then be cut up which obviously isn't as cost effective. If you couple all that work with the fact that maybe 40-50 of these will ever be needed worldwide the market just doesn't seem to be there
what are you all running for a rear 18" rim ? I just put some HRE's on w/ PS4's for DD but want a set of 305 MT's for track and Tx Mile etc ...... HRE doesn't have a 18" option on the FF series...not really wanting to order a custom set of Forgestars and wait months .. anything off the shelf that works ??
Is he the guy on full-time race gas? Just to be clear if it is or is not pump 93 - I don't recall who is who.
Is it second quickest 1/4 mile time, or second highest trap speed (or both)?
edit - I looked at the sheet, and it has him as running MS-109 race gas.
Great catch... that's a valid point. Efrain is running a high octane race tune when he is getting those numbers..
The only way someone running pump gas (91/93) would see those times would be with big turbos and a bunch more money thrown into the platform
10.4 is with 102 octane and water meth for cooling with a 137 mph trap
my normal race tune I run 93 + meth and can run 10.7 10.8 @ 132 all day the meth helps a lot with this as well even tho I’m not tuned for it.
I run 100% methanol or 90/10 mix.
10.4 is with 102 octane and water meth for cooling with a 137 mph trap
my normal race tune I run 93 + meth and can run 10.7 10.8 @ 132 all day the meth helps a lot with this as well even tho I’m not tuned for it.
I run 100% methanol or 90/10 mix.
This question was asked a month ago, so you may already have found your answer. Just in case though, my understanding is as follows:
@5soko does in-person TCU tunes around the NY area.
Eurocharged Austin (Dave) was traveling around doing in-person TCU tunes in different areas, although I don't know if that is still happening.
Eurocharged (Jerry) now has a remote TCU tune available.
The first 2 in the list were the same (EDOK) TCU tune as was described in the mods list, while Jerry has his own version.
I was told that Morendi is offering the TCU tune for 1K. You can contact them via instagram for additional information. They are very big in Europe (87k followers on instagram)
What about the Renntech transmission rebuild? It sounds like just the clutch packs are upgraded, and I would imagine only those for a reason. Are those upgraded clutch packs helping the output shaft live longer? Genuinely asking. Reducing rotational mass with lighter brakes and wheels would certainly help longevity, to an extent.
40% Ethanol and 60% fuel for E40
50% Ethanol and 50% fuel for E50
as far as mixing gallon:gallon or liter:liter, it will depend on what fuels you have available in your area. I hear there is an app for that? IDK, I don't mix...
What’s the mix ratio that you use to get e40? Also is this ok for stock fuel pumps etc.
im tuned for e, just checking what people mix to get e40/e50
It's simple math, but it's dependent on what e content your local gas station has. "E85" is allowed by law to be as low as e51.
If your gas station has e70, and your 93 octane is e10, then a 50/50 mix will give you e40.
If your gas station has e51, and your 93 octane is e0, then a 50/50 mix will give you e25.
etc.
12-11-2020, 04:50 AM
