Kind of bought one, have few questions... '14 e63s
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2011
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poop
Kind of bought one, have few questions... '14 e63s
Hey guys.
Sold my w211 e55 last month, instant regret.
I chose to skip the m156 models and began looking at 12-13 w212 p30 cars and V2 CTS-Vs (owned one a few years back)
I was looking at a few low mile e63 p30 cars until I began reading about the timing chain issues. I had the dealers send pictures of the chains and every single one had the old "split" chains. I've spent a few hours reading, about it but I couldn't find the info I was looking for.
1. I do all my own work, but I couldn't find a single DIY chain replacement thread here? I know obviously is very involved, but i was surprised I couldn't find any examples
2. How common is this? should they be completely avoided?
ANYWAY, I then began considering the 2014-16 e63 S models and 2016-18 CTS-Vs. To be honest, I mildly prefer the 12-13, but the updates is growing on me.
I reserved one at caranna of all places tonight lol, it seemed like a good price for the super low miles. Just wanted to know your thoughts on the 12, 13 vs the 14-16 and is it worth the bump in price in your opinion.
Thanks guys
Sold my w211 e55 last month, instant regret.
I chose to skip the m156 models and began looking at 12-13 w212 p30 cars and V2 CTS-Vs (owned one a few years back)
I was looking at a few low mile e63 p30 cars until I began reading about the timing chain issues. I had the dealers send pictures of the chains and every single one had the old "split" chains. I've spent a few hours reading, about it but I couldn't find the info I was looking for.
1. I do all my own work, but I couldn't find a single DIY chain replacement thread here? I know obviously is very involved, but i was surprised I couldn't find any examples
2. How common is this? should they be completely avoided?
ANYWAY, I then began considering the 2014-16 e63 S models and 2016-18 CTS-Vs. To be honest, I mildly prefer the 12-13, but the updates is growing on me.
I reserved one at caranna of all places tonight lol, it seemed like a good price for the super low miles. Just wanted to know your thoughts on the 12, 13 vs the 14-16 and is it worth the bump in price in your opinion.
Thanks guys
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 17
Likes: 9
From: Alberta, Canada
2014 E63S AMG
Hey guys.
Sold my w211 e55 last month, instant regret.
I chose to skip the m156 models and began looking at 12-13 w212 p30 cars and V2 CTS-Vs (owned one a few years back)
I was looking at a few low mile e63 p30 cars until I began reading about the timing chain issues. I had the dealers send pictures of the chains and every single one had the old "split" chains. I've spent a few hours reading, about it but I couldn't find the info I was looking for.
1. I do all my own work, but I couldn't find a single DIY chain replacement thread here? I know obviously is very involved, but i was surprised I couldn't find any examples
2. How common is this? should they be completely avoided?
ANYWAY, I then began considering the 2014-16 e63 S models and 2016-18 CTS-Vs. To be honest, I mildly prefer the 12-13, but the updates is growing on me.
I reserved one at caranna of all places tonight lol, it seemed like a good price for the super low miles. Just wanted to know your thoughts on the 12, 13 vs the 14-16 and is it worth the bump in price in your opinion.
Thanks guys
Sold my w211 e55 last month, instant regret.
I chose to skip the m156 models and began looking at 12-13 w212 p30 cars and V2 CTS-Vs (owned one a few years back)
I was looking at a few low mile e63 p30 cars until I began reading about the timing chain issues. I had the dealers send pictures of the chains and every single one had the old "split" chains. I've spent a few hours reading, about it but I couldn't find the info I was looking for.
1. I do all my own work, but I couldn't find a single DIY chain replacement thread here? I know obviously is very involved, but i was surprised I couldn't find any examples
2. How common is this? should they be completely avoided?
ANYWAY, I then began considering the 2014-16 e63 S models and 2016-18 CTS-Vs. To be honest, I mildly prefer the 12-13, but the updates is growing on me.
I reserved one at caranna of all places tonight lol, it seemed like a good price for the super low miles. Just wanted to know your thoughts on the 12, 13 vs the 14-16 and is it worth the bump in price in your opinion.
Thanks guys
The timing chain issue probably isn't super common however its a major repair which could lead to catastrophic damage. Might as well put that money towards buying a facelifted model which doesn't have that issue and has updated interior, exterior, and features.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 878
Likes: 638
poop
You sir have good taste in cars. I also owned an E55 and V2 CTSV. Unlike in the caddy world, with DIYs on the replacement of every nut and bolt, the E63 community isn't quite there yet but is progressing as these cars age and the ownership demographic changes. Compared to the V2, build quality on the Benz is leagues ahead, though V3 has much improved over the previous generation. I chose the E63 over V3 because AWD>RWD and TT>SC.
The timing chain issue probably isn't super common however its a major repair which could lead to catastrophic damage. Might as well put that money towards buying a facelifted model which doesn't have that issue and has updated interior, exterior, and features.
The timing chain issue probably isn't super common however its a major repair which could lead to catastrophic damage. Might as well put that money towards buying a facelifted model which doesn't have that issue and has updated interior, exterior, and features.
The other 2 I was considering were the black '12 wagon in WA (couldn't be father way, but wagon, night vision etc 44k for $44k) and a '12 P30 sedan with 22k, for $41.
I enjoyed my V2, it was 600/601 at the wheels, loved the sound, but would light the tires at any speed. e55 was modded as well, not quite as much power, but still traction issues and last thing you want is to lose control when your playing around and put it into a ditch. Another reason why I was leaning towards an AWD E63.
DIY is huge for me, I love it. Heck my 355 requires pulling the motor out every couple years for routine maintenance. The DIY e55 and 355 communities have grown quite a bit and there is all kinds of resources if you needs some pointers. Hoping to find and contribute here.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 415
Likes: 165
From: Northern VA
2016 E63s
I generally prefer late-models due to getting the kinks, bugs and bad engineering worked out. The timing chain issue is probably one of several changes MB made to the later models as they collected more data.
For sure there are examples of later model changes that were to the detriment of the tunability - being an old DSM guy, the 2G swapped to a smaller T25 turbo to reduce lag, but it just killed top end when you modded. But I think the 2014-16 E63s have been great cars.
For sure there are examples of later model changes that were to the detriment of the tunability - being an old DSM guy, the 2G swapped to a smaller T25 turbo to reduce lag, but it just killed top end when you modded. But I think the 2014-16 E63s have been great cars.
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 339
Likes: 35
From: Nevada
2014 E63S, 2018 GLC 300
I understand subjective but I love the facelift. That and the updated timing chains and or tensioners is a win. A benefit on buying a CTSV is engines do not cost a stupid amount of money. The M157 gets nearly $20k for a rebuild if lucky enough to not ventilate the block IIRC.
If I was looking to tinker I would go CTSV, if simply driving it I would go E63S.
If I was looking to tinker I would go CTSV, if simply driving it I would go E63S.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 394
Likes: 155
2013 E63 P30, 2010 GL550
As far as I know, and I cross-checked in WIS, the upgraded chain group begins from 03/02/2012, engine # 60009367. My 2013 W212 M157 has the upgraded chain group.
Hope this helps.
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Thread Starter
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poop
The procedure is very involved, and WIS has detailed documentation. Over a dozen of nested docs. And so both complexity and rarity of occurrence makes this an unlikely DIY candidate. Professional shops do not typically post DIY. No surprises here. I do not believe Mercedes shared the replacement data on the M157 chain issue. Granted, I do not live in forums like some others, but I cannot recall anyone affected by it in the forums I visit. Tasos made several videos about the timing chain. The chain issue appears to affect a tiny number of engines. There is no recall. The chains, tensioners, rails, and gears were upgraded, so Mercedes made improvements here.
As far as I know, and I cross-checked in WIS, the upgraded chain group begins from 03/02/2012, engine # 60009367. My 2013 W212 M157 has the upgraded chain group.
Hope this helps.
As far as I know, and I cross-checked in WIS, the upgraded chain group begins from 03/02/2012, engine # 60009367. My 2013 W212 M157 has the upgraded chain group.
Hope this helps.
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Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 27
Likes: 7
From: Greenville, SC
2015 E63S AMG, 2002 CLK 320
Hey guys.
Sold my w211 e55 last month, instant regret.
I chose to skip the m156 models and began looking at 12-13 w212 p30 cars and V2 CTS-Vs (owned one a few years back)
I was looking at a few low mile e63 p30 cars until I began reading about the timing chain issues. I had the dealers send pictures of the chains and every single one had the old "split" chains. I've spent a few hours reading, about it but I couldn't find the info I was looking for.
1. I do all my own work, but I couldn't find a single DIY chain replacement thread here? I know obviously is very involved, but i was surprised I couldn't find any examples
2. How common is this? should they be completely avoided?
ANYWAY, I then began considering the 2014-16 e63 S models and 2016-18 CTS-Vs. To be honest, I mildly prefer the 12-13, but the updates is growing on me.
I reserved one at caranna of all places tonight lol, it seemed like a good price for the super low miles. Just wanted to know your thoughts on the 12, 13 vs the 14-16 and is it worth the bump in price in your opinion.
Thanks guys
Sold my w211 e55 last month, instant regret.
I chose to skip the m156 models and began looking at 12-13 w212 p30 cars and V2 CTS-Vs (owned one a few years back)
I was looking at a few low mile e63 p30 cars until I began reading about the timing chain issues. I had the dealers send pictures of the chains and every single one had the old "split" chains. I've spent a few hours reading, about it but I couldn't find the info I was looking for.
1. I do all my own work, but I couldn't find a single DIY chain replacement thread here? I know obviously is very involved, but i was surprised I couldn't find any examples
2. How common is this? should they be completely avoided?
ANYWAY, I then began considering the 2014-16 e63 S models and 2016-18 CTS-Vs. To be honest, I mildly prefer the 12-13, but the updates is growing on me.
I reserved one at caranna of all places tonight lol, it seemed like a good price for the super low miles. Just wanted to know your thoughts on the 12, 13 vs the 14-16 and is it worth the bump in price in your opinion.
Thanks guys
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 878
Likes: 638
poop
whatever, we'll see here in a few days
Thread Starter
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 878
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poop
Hi - I can't comment on the earlier models as I came from a CLK320. But I can say that I really like my 2015 E63S. It's been virtually bulletproof as I've only needed the normal scheduled maintenance. The standard AWD though will eat through either your brake pads or your tires (or both) particularly if you leave the traction control on. Otherwise, the M157 engine is fantastic.
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,775
Likes: 1,152
From: NY
E63S | X5
I always avoid carmax junk, and in my experience carvana and the other 'fixed price' type places are is usually above market. How ever, call it covid crazy or what, most of the 14-16 s-models on the market now are significantly higher price, especially considering the miles.
whatever, we'll see here in a few days
whatever, we'll see here in a few days
Today, It's worth $50k.
Kills me just thinking about it. But that's just how the market works sometimes.
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 27
Likes: 7
From: Greenville, SC
2015 E63S AMG, 2002 CLK 320
Yes it does. I always wondered why I was eating through brake pads so frequently and got the answer from my MB Service Tech. If you leave the traction control on (its default startup mode), the system will modulate the brakes slightly whenever it detects any amount of wheel spin imbalance. If you turn it off (it actually never is completely off according to my Tech Advisor), then the system won't modulate the brakes and you'll see the effects in reduced tire life. So it's pretty much brake pads (and possibly rotors) or tires, take your pick. I'm now considering going with a full set replacement of the stock rotors and pads with GiroDiscs as their pads can be replaced without having to replace the rotors every time and the feedback from the Forum seems to be positive
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Joined: Apr 2010
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2013 E63 P30, 2010 GL550
...If you leave the traction control on (its default startup mode), the system will modulate the brakes slightly whenever it detects any amount of wheel spin imbalance. If you turn it off (it actually never is completely off according to my Tech Advisor), then the system won't modulate the brakes and you'll see the effects in reduced tire life.
Girodisc rotors are premium parts and also the lightest generally available at 23.6/14.4 lbs (10.7/6.5 kg) F/R. You do not *have to* replace OEM rotors every time with pads. Replace based on rotor wear such as remaining thickness, grooving, warping, cracking.
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Joined: Sep 2011
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poop
If brake wear is significantly increased from traction control use, I wonder if LSD equipped cars have less brake wear?
So I do my own vehicle inspections, anything specific to an 14' e63s besides brakes I should look for?
So I do my own vehicle inspections, anything specific to an 14' e63s besides brakes I should look for?
True. The owner's manual states that the ETS/4ETS (Electronic Traction System) is always enabled regardless of ESP (Electronic Stability Program) mode. Traction control brakes the drive wheels individually if they spin.
Girodisc rotors are premium parts and also the lightest generally available at 23.6/14.4 lbs (10.7/6.5 kg) F/R. You do not *have to* replace OEM rotors every time with pads. Replace based on rotor wear such as remaining thickness, grooving, warping, cracking.
Girodisc rotors are premium parts and also the lightest generally available at 23.6/14.4 lbs (10.7/6.5 kg) F/R. You do not *have to* replace OEM rotors every time with pads. Replace based on rotor wear such as remaining thickness, grooving, warping, cracking.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 394
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2013 E63 P30, 2010 GL550
Yes, our LSDs mechanically distribute torque to maintain traction based on relative axle and pinion loading as it changes. This occurs before the ESP sensors detect wheel spin, and before the ESP countermeasures kick in. Therefore, ESP may never even detect/engage and somewhat reduce the brakes wear other things being equal. However, other things are rarely equal. And so in practice, powerful acceleration means ESP SPORT/OFF mode and powerful (more) braking. Kinetic energy, etc. There goes the brakes wear savings and then some.
As you know, LSD significantly raises the threshold; but does not eliminate traction problems. Not the least because of high engine torque, loss of traction is very real even with LSD. I would not recommend the line of thinking that LSD helps brake wear. Remember that ESP/ETS braking, as one of several countermeasures, aims to slow the mass of a spinning wheel, not vehicle. IMHO, LSD is a must in heavy and powerful vehicles like the E63. I am glad that all (facelifted) E63 S-models come with an excellent LSD included. Was not the case with the P30 Performance package MY12-13 in the US market; needed stand-alone option 471.
Bottom line: I would not worry about brake wear from ESP/ETS. An academic concern.
As you know, LSD significantly raises the threshold; but does not eliminate traction problems. Not the least because of high engine torque, loss of traction is very real even with LSD. I would not recommend the line of thinking that LSD helps brake wear. Remember that ESP/ETS braking, as one of several countermeasures, aims to slow the mass of a spinning wheel, not vehicle. IMHO, LSD is a must in heavy and powerful vehicles like the E63. I am glad that all (facelifted) E63 S-models come with an excellent LSD included. Was not the case with the P30 Performance package MY12-13 in the US market; needed stand-alone option 471.
Bottom line: I would not worry about brake wear from ESP/ETS. An academic concern.
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 27
Likes: 7
From: Greenville, SC
2015 E63S AMG, 2002 CLK 320
True enough about replacing the rotors every time the pads wear. It just seems like my MB dealer tends to recommend replacing the rotors at the same time saying that they get "mated" to the pads and the system will work better with new rotors and pads. But I suspect you could question them further regarding the actual state of the rotors and make a decision to just replace the pads. I'm due for front brake replacement and the quote is $3,000 for rotors & pads (of which the rotors themselves are $2,400). The Girodisc quote is $3,500 for a 4-wheel set installed and that's why I'm leaning in that direction.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 394
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2013 E63 P30, 2010 GL550
Everyone has their attitude to and situation with vehicle maintenance. For many reasons, some folks swear by the authorized dealer service, others go to an indy, or DIY as much as possible. Like the OP, I am the latter. Primarily because of great cost savings, ability, and enjoyment. At this very moment, my W212 is up in the air for several upgrades including brakes and rotors at 60K miles. Since it is a recent order, I can share that my total bill of materials is $1,048.88 including sales tax and shipping:
$78.90 EBC Redstuff Front, p/n DP31939C
$129.99 EBC Redstuff Rear, p/n DP32117C
from rcagarage.com
$839.99 Brembo Rotors, Front + Rear Set, p/n BBHN-57087-168-1534416 (p/n 09.9764.23 + 09.A822.11)
from Newparts.com (call them for additional discount)
This is an excellent quality low-dust combination for my driving needs. For all the advantages of Girodisc (they are top shelf, no doubt), I could not justify their cost $2,350, which is 2.8 times the Brembo parts. The difference is close to fund a TCU tune, for example.
Regarding rotor mating, they speak of the grooving wear, which degree shall be examined per axle. New pads over old rotors quickly align and work just as well in most cases. Good luck whatever makes sense for you to do.
$78.90 EBC Redstuff Front, p/n DP31939C
$129.99 EBC Redstuff Rear, p/n DP32117C
from rcagarage.com
$839.99 Brembo Rotors, Front + Rear Set, p/n BBHN-57087-168-1534416 (p/n 09.9764.23 + 09.A822.11)
from Newparts.com (call them for additional discount)
This is an excellent quality low-dust combination for my driving needs. For all the advantages of Girodisc (they are top shelf, no doubt), I could not justify their cost $2,350, which is 2.8 times the Brembo parts. The difference is close to fund a TCU tune, for example.
Regarding rotor mating, they speak of the grooving wear, which degree shall be examined per axle. New pads over old rotors quickly align and work just as well in most cases. Good luck whatever makes sense for you to do.
