Wheelman63

Hey All,

About two months ago, I bought my latest W212 E63S. I previously had a 2015 E63S, but went back to a w204. I am now back in a 2014 E63S.

When I bought the car, I was intrigued to see that it had some AMS parts. Under the car, I could see the cat-back bridge had an ALPHA emblem etched into the metal link. I was leery of what the dealer told me, they claimed it was an Alpha 7 car with an upgraded “intercooler”.

I didn’t want to make any assumptions until I had things verified. Reading up on the AMS Alpha offerings for the E63, I know the early Alpha 7 package was the sport-back exhaust, downpipes, and a tune.

AMS was not very helpful with the car. They wouldn’t really do much to help me get background on the car on the phone or via e-mail. When I tried to make an appointment for them to just look over the car, they told me they were booked for “several months”. After constantly trying to get a date and a commitment over the phone and email with no response, I gave up.

I spoke with Eurocharged Chicago, who was conversely very helpful. They gave me some advice and feedback, and were quick to schedule an appointment. I decided to go with their TCU tune, and get new plugs and coils to ensure my maintenance was current.

When I picked the car up, they ran it on the Dyno. I was shockingly stunned and appalled. As you can see in the graph above, the car made 535 HP and 636 TQ. That figure is barely above stock HP.

What gives???

The car feels quick, and break-neck responsive in low gears now with the TCU tune.

EC mentioned that the AMS downpipes on my car did not have upgraded cats. They also noted that, based on the AMS downpipes and performance exhaust, I have some limitations in changing the setup. Apparently, only certain downpipes are compatible with the AMS performance exhaust. I was thinking of going with red star downpipes, but then I have to change the exhaust as well. Anyways, I guess that’s a story for another day.

I am not sure where to go from here. I’m thinking of waiting until next season to do a black boost intake, different downpipes with high flow cats, and a retune. I guess I’m just shocked at how poor this AMS tune is performing.

BlownV8

It may have been flashed back to stock by a dealership?

C2 Turbo

Good to know how good AMS's CS is? Knowing this, don't think I will be knocking on their doors for sure.

Wheelman63

no. The car has downpipes and it would produce a CEL if there was no tune or stock tune.

The1stWright

This looks pretty similar to 91oct numbers with the m157 motor and a tune.

What was the car filled up on?

kponti

You think the car will pick up 100-130rwhp with just 93 Oct fuel?

The1stWright

Absolutely not, but these numbers are very similar to the numbers i've seen with RennTech intermediate tune on 91 pump.

AMS themselves claim 730hp and 800tq when everybody should know these are crank figures. Even using a basic crank HP calculator he's at about 673hp to the crack which is right along with RennTech's 91oct pump intermediate tune numbers of 669hp.

Not saying this is the main culprit by any means.

AngryScotsman

A dyno is tuning tool and a comparison tool for mods, assuming similar conditions.
Run it at a drag strip. The trap speed will be a better indication of power than a dyno.

If you wanted a dyno queen, I'm sure the dyno operator could have made it look like your car made 700whp, even though it'll never see in the real world.

PeterUbers

My experience with AMS has been pretty positive - sorry to the OP for his troubles

BCP

But it has cats, correct? You stated "EC mentioned that the AMS downpipes on my car did not have upgraded cats". You wouldnt get a CEL with catted downpipes, only catless.

BCP

delete- double-post

Wheelman63

Car is always filled with 93 octane.

yes it has cats. I’m not sure that is correct, depending on the location / type of cats in the downpipe. It would still likely throw a CEL.

C32owner

Yeah, I was interested in them as well.. Not anymore.. Their tunes are like right up there in price as well. Disappointing.

BCP

That's not my experience, but good luck with it.

brutus_tx

Can I suggest getting another clean dyno... one where the wheels aren't slipping and the run goes to redline? Until we see that, we really can't offer any constructive advice.
Drawing conclusions from an erroneous data set will be, well, erroneous.

Dyno aside, do you have any street metrics like the 1/8, 1/4 or 60-130? Those numbers will do a much better job of helping you determine if power is being made...

PeterUbers

Excellent points!

Wheelman63

Happy to do so, yet a little concerned / confused about how this erroneous Dyno data was produced.

I do my homework extremely diligently for all platforms that I have modified over the years. I gave Euorcharged the shot after all the rave reviews I read here, on this very forum and Facebook from all of the feedback. I don’t drive a 1k horsepower monster like my LS3 Camaro (that makes power to half as many wheels) on my E63S, so I am struggling to comprehend how a successful Dyno pull was not manageable. I have never had Dyno slip issues on the RWD Camaro even with NT05s on a 20in wheel. So, forgive my incredulous reaction to my E63S “slipping”. Very peculiar.

Even worse, I took my car to another shop and they showed me that one of the lower arms on the driver side was no longer seated properly. I was shocked to see this, and they said the only way that could happen was 1. Impact damage - which they agreed was not possible in this situation as the underbody of my car was immaculate, and no evidence of a scraping or bottom-out or 2. Being incorrectly strapped to a Dyno. My eyebrow is raised yet again.

Out of an abundance of caution due to my recent experiences, I’m having this shop go over the car with a fine tooth comb. After that, I may just leave it as is and enjoy the car as it sits.

It’s proving exceedingly difficult to find a reliable, trustworthy shop given my experiences. Apologies for the pessimism, but this is the reality of the situation based on the facts so far. This is my second w212 E63 and I’m starting to remember why I moved on from the first one.

edit: and no, no street data yet. Once the car gets a clean bill of health as noted above, I definitely plan to take it to the strip. The original goal was to make the car capable for the road courses (Road America, Gingerman, etc.) but until I’m confident in the consistency of the performance, I will only work towards that gradually.

PeterUbers

Why is your dynojet graph choppy

tire slip? Trans clutch slip? Mct wet clutch slip?

https://www.svtperformance.com/threa...graph.1082797/

brutus_tx

So this thread is more about the Dyno run itself and less to do with the tune on the car, or so it seems to me.

It's unfortunate AMS didn't work with you to accommodate your request. The cynic in me would say it's because they already got your money....
I hear you about finding reliable trustworthy shops. I'm not insinuating that EC Chicago are subpar, but when I look at a dyno like that it's obvious they had issues during the run.
Why they presented you with that plot is beyond me. I'm sure there were extenuating circumstances, but the fact remains that was a crap dyno run.

Can you go back to them, strap it down, and get a few clean runs in?

Wheelman63

i am still waiting to get the car back from the new shop I’m trying. I’m curious what else they will find as they go through the car. Would love to try another Dyno just as another data point to confirm, to your point, is it a tune issue or a Dyno issue. I’ll have to look into other AWD Dynos in my area. I’m mostly familiar with 2 wheel Dyno locations.

brutus_tx

It could be mechanical as well. Maybe the clutches are slipping? Get it on a dyno and also log the data to see how the tune is performing. I recommend HP Tuner to log the run.

jvakos

agree with Brutus’ recommendation to just get another dyno but I’d schedule it with AMS and have Jake do it he’s their M157 calibrator.

I’ve had my car on their dyno many times with zero issues and always good results on their dynojet.

I would bet that Jake can iron out your tune issues but of course it’s not going to be free. They charge 300 an hour for dyno time which in my opinion as well worth it considering their expertise and results others have had here with dyno tunes from them. The “box” tunes are another story as every tuner has customers who have issues with those for a multitude of reasons….

sorry you’re having the issues with the car, but that would be my recommendation

PeterUbers

perfectly put

Wheelman63

yea I mean that’s what I’m going to have to do, and was my original plan in the first place. It has been impossible to get an appointment with AMS but I feel like I can’t move forward with the car until they can look at it, get it on the Dyno, and confirm what iteration of their tune is in the car. So, I’m back at square one. Guess I’m just going to have to call them daily until they finally give me an appointment or tell me to **** off.

I did have eurocharged put in new plugs and wires, and the shop that the car is at now is verifying this was done correctly, given the situation. It would have been nice to get some feedback on the car instead of “here, here’s your crappy Dyno results. Bye.”

jvakos

Wheelman - am sure you are frustrated and I totally understand that. I'm gonna send you a private message with Josh's contact info at AMS who has taken care of me for the past 2 years along with @PeterUbers . They are super busy with Audi R8's, Lambos and GTR builds which means it can be difficult to schedule time with them but their lead calibrators (Jake & Myles) absolutely know the M157 platform in and out and I think once they get your car on the dyno and have some data/logs they can help you from there.

sending you PM now....