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F90 M5 vs W213 E63S by DSC OFF- Video Inside- Good Comparos!!!

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F90 M5 vs W213 E63S by DSC OFF- Video Inside- Good Comparos!!!

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Old 07-09-2018, 02:11 PM
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F90 M5 vs W213 E63S by DSC OFF- Video Inside- Good Comparos!!!

While its not in English I found this video to provide some good comparisons:

Dyno: Both builders are under reporting of course
Drag Races: The F90 is just a bit faster but oh so close
L/C Stress: The F90 was slightly better but again very close
Brakes: E63S better but has CCB's
Drift: Fun and even

Its still a very subjective choice between the two yet again. Enjoy!!!

Skip to 22:30 if you want to get past all the city drives:


Last edited by Vic55; 07-09-2018 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:01 PM
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I have a feeling a boatload of Trump vodka is used for cooling in that dyno room...

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Old 07-09-2018, 07:25 PM
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no english no care. I honestly can't stand that language
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:53 PM
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I suppose the guys could have switched cars when doing the multiple tests on the straight away runs , just to be objective
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:08 PM
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I think it's fair to say that options, passengers, trunk content and the driver can entirely flip the outcome of these comparisons--these cars are so closely matched.

That said, when the CP finally drops States-side, I may need to rethink my license plate (well, once they're tuned that is (CP or not for that matter) since, as it stands, [I 8 A M5] isn't likely to be proven wrong without one. From what I've read, they're already seeing 700 whp from (albeit advanced) piggybacks.

Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
While its not in English I found this video to provide some good comparisons:

Dyno: Both builders are under reporting of course
Drag Races: The F90 is just a bit faster but oh so close
L/C Stress: The F90 was slightly better but again very close
Brakes: E63S better but has CCB's
Drift: Fun and even

Its still a very subjective choice between the two yet again. Enjoy!!!

Skip to 22:30 if you want to get past all the city drives:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysg0Depmyjc
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Old 07-10-2018, 01:18 AM
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The video was better watched on mute but good content. Very close as usual and each car caters to their customer base.
Personally I realize just how much better I like the looks of the E63s vs. the M5 when seeing them side by side. Even with all the M performance bits it still is too much like a regular 550

In Europe you can get the E63s with just the steel roof. That should shave an easy 100 or so lbs. off the cars weight. Be nice to see how much difference that makes in numbers as the M always has the edge by a hair.

That said, the M5 is a heck of a deal if leased. But better act fast. MY19 drops the residual by a full 10% and the MF is going up so the comp model will come closer to the E in money.
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Old 07-10-2018, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post
The video was better watched on mute but good content. Very close as usual and each car caters to their customer base.
Personally I realize just how much better I like the looks of the E63s vs. the M5 when seeing them side by side. Even with all the M performance bits it still is too much like a regular 550

In Europe you can get the E63s with just the steel roof. That should shave an easy 100 or so lbs. off the cars weight. Be nice to see how much difference that makes in numbers as the M always has the edge by a hair.

That said, the M5 is a heck of a deal if leased. But better act fast. MY19 drops the residual by a full 10% and the MF is going up so the comp model will come closer to the E in money.
Great info and perspective as always!

Do you know the certainty and details behind the residual drop, etc.? Import taxation involved?
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Old 07-10-2018, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by limeypride View Post
Great info and perspective as always!

Do you know the certainty and details behind the residual drop, etc.? Import taxation involved?
Checked with dealer on residual. My theory: 58%-61% residual on an M5 is not realistic. Since they introduced the MY18 in the US more or less towards the end of the model year they wanted it to be very attractive for the intro. MY19 are now corrected with 48%-51% residual. Re. the MF I am not sure if it's across the board but BMW fashion it would be. .00166 to .00187 (not confirmed, but that what I have seen).
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Old 07-10-2018, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post
The video was better watched on mute but good content. Very close as usual and each car caters to their customer base.
Personally I realize just how much better I like the looks of the E63s vs. the M5 when seeing them side by side. Even with all the M performance bits it still is too much like a regular 550

In Europe you can get the E63s with just the steel roof. That should shave an easy 100 or so lbs. off the cars weight. Be nice to see how much difference that makes in numbers as the M always has the edge by a hair.

That said, the M5 is a heck of a deal if leased. But better act fast. MY19 drops the residual by a full 10% and the MF is going up so the comp model will come closer to the E in money.
E63 does not have just steel roof. You can stay with a regular sunroof and you'll save about 120 kilograms which are about 240 pounds. But my opinion is panorama roof is must have since it looks amazing and I don't care about extra ~200 pounds.
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Old 07-10-2018, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post
Checked with dealer on residual. My theory: 58%-61% residual on an M5 is not realistic. Since they introduced the MY18 in the US more or less towards the end of the model year they wanted it to be very attractive for the intro. MY19 are now corrected with 48%-51% residual. Re. the MF I am not sure if it's across the board but BMW fashion it would be. .00166 to .00187 (not confirmed, but that what I have seen).
These residuals, which are confirmed for 2019 are way too low. At 48/50/51 they come in even lower than Benz and the E63S and are borderline RS7 territory. The rate for the 18's was moved to .00187 and now it got moved back I guess to .00166. Bottom line is people will have higher lease payments on M5's for the 2019 model but will be able to get out of them earlier as the amortization schedules are now tilted towards more depreciation. The 2016 M5 was a terrible early trade in for most lessees because it depreciated much faster than its set 24 and 36 month residuals. Maybe they woke up or just are pushing for a better lease return gain. There is a 5000 lease credit on 2019 M5's (Non CE).

From years and years of experience working residuals from a finance/bank side and buy side- residuals are the main reason why leasing companies stay in business. Its all about the residual gain or loss and lets face it, the majority of the big manufacturer leases are subvented via the factory and their captive banks so interest factors are not meaningful. These small volume standard leases on higher end cars dont have the impact that the commodity leases have.

Last edited by Vic55; 07-10-2018 at 05:11 PM.
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Old 07-10-2018, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Mandarin View Post
E63 does not have just steel roof. You can stay with a regular sunroof and you'll save about 120 kilograms which are about 240 pounds. But my opinion is panorama roof is must have since it looks amazing and I don't care about extra ~200 pounds.
It does but depends on the country. In Germany, the E63s comes in steel by default with either the moonroof or pano roof as an option. This varies by countries of course.


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Old 07-10-2018, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post
It does but depends on the country. In Germany, the E63s comes in steel by default with either the moonroof or pano roof as an option. This varies by countries of course.

Oh okay, I thought we are talking about US spec only ) Thank you!
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Old 07-10-2018, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Mandarin View Post
Oh okay, I thought we are talking about US spec only ) Thank you!
I got the moonroof for 4 reasons.​​​​​

Headroom, less creaking and popping, heat, and weight.

I guess a 5th bonus is I could spend that money elsewhere.
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Old 07-10-2018, 08:20 PM
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Any info on where that 120kg number is coming from? I'd be surprised if the pano roof really weights 120kg more than the regular roof!
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Old 07-10-2018, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
These residuals, which are confirmed for 2019 are way too low. At 48/50/51 they come in even lower than Benz and the E63S and are borderline RS7 territory. The rate for the 18's was moved to .00187 and now it got moved back I guess to .00166. Bottom line is people will have higher lease payments on M5's for the 2019 model but will be able to get out of them earlier as the amortization schedules are now tilted towards more depreciation. The 2016 M5 was a terrible early trade in for most lessees because it depreciated much faster than its set 24 and 36 month residuals. Maybe they woke up or just are pushing for a better lease return gain. There is a 5000 lease credit on 2019 M5's (Non CE).

From years and years of experience working residuals from a finance/bank side and buy side- residuals are the main reason why leasing companies stay in business. Its all about the residual gain or loss and lets face it, the majority of the big manufacturer leases are subvented via the factory and their captive banks so interest factors are not meaningful. These small volume standard leases on higher end cars dont have the impact that the commodity leases have.
I thought the early M5 residuals were excellent, just like the E63's. Better than anticipated and while MB did a gradual reduction, BMW's drop is just harsh. Different story on early exits to be sure but is that very common?
For anyone keeping it for the duration, the MY18 M5 is a sweet deal. Barely introduced yet already well discounted and decent lease numbers.
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Old 07-10-2018, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jkob5 View Post
Any info on where that 120kg number is coming from? I'd be surprised if the pano roof really weights 120kg more than the regular roof!
I had heard about a 200+ lb figure for the E-Class pano, but that's the weight, not the weight above the moonroof. What is a steel roof weigh? 40-50lbs? Moonroof plus mechanism, etc. should be well above that. Just guessing though...
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Old 07-10-2018, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by jkob5 View Post
Any info on where that 120kg number is coming from? I'd be surprised if the pano roof really weights 120kg more than the regular roof!
i read around 200+ lbs somewhere. Wont surprise me, thick shatter-proof glass is heavy compared to thin steel. I would guess 200+ lbs over steel roof, less over moonroof.
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Old 07-10-2018, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by kcjonz View Post


I got the moonroof for 4 reasons.​​​​​

Headroom, less creaking and popping, heat, and weight.

I guess a 5th bonus is I could spend that money elsewhere.
During the factory tour when I picked up my E63, one of the interesting points given was that the pano roof is stronger than the steel roof and increases overall stiffness of the car's chassis.

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Old 07-10-2018, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by E634Me View Post
During the factory tour when I picked up my E63, one of the interesting points given was that the pano roof is stronger than the steel roof and increases overall stiffness of the car's chassis.
The main reason I went moonroof was headroom. I read several places Id gain an inch or two. Which will be much needed.
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Old 07-10-2018, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post
I thought the early M5 residuals were excellent, just like the E63's. Better than anticipated and while MB did a gradual reduction, BMW's drop is just harsh. Different story on early exits to be sure but is that very common?
For anyone keeping it for the duration, the MY18 M5 is a sweet deal. Barely introduced yet already well discounted and decent lease numbers.
Yeah the 18 F90 residuals were the same or within 1 pt of the 2015 and 16's when they came out... very favorable for full termers. But I know of quite a few of those F10 M5's which came back and took nice residual hits at the factory line.

I think when I bought my E63S the option to lease was 54 plus 4 (MBFS has 7500 miles per annum on the car while FS does not offer that on the M5) or 58% all in which is still 3 pts lower than the 10k mark for F90.
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Old 07-10-2018, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by E634Me View Post
pano roof is stronger than the steel roof
Logically impossible

P.S. in russia , where that video made, pano roof comes as default without possibility to change to steel or sun roof.
In UK, same as Germany you got 3 options.
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Old 07-10-2018, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by dav461 View Post


Logically impossible

P.S. in russia , where that video made, pano roof comes as default without possibility to change to steel or sun roof.
In UK, same as Germany you got 3 options.
Being thicker and heavier I could see it adding rigidity.....until it shatters in a rollover.
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Old 07-10-2018, 09:06 PM
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Sorry if we hijacked your thread Vic. Looks like a comparo video turned into a lease option / sunroof thread. Just go with the flow. LOL.
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Old 07-10-2018, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by kcjonz View Post
Sorry if we hijacked your thread Vic. Looks like a comparo video turned into a lease option / sunroof thread. Just go with the flow. LOL.
hahahaha Im guilty too...

Its all good; its interesting how almost every forum thread does tend to veer off the beaten path somehow.
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Old 07-10-2018, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
Yeah the 18 F90 residuals were the same or within 1 pt of the 2015 and 16's when they came out... very favorable for full termers. But I know of quite a few of those F10 M5's which came back and took nice residual hits at the factory line.

I think when I bought my E63S the option to lease was 54 plus 4 (MBFS has 7500 miles per annum on the car while FS does not offer that on the M5) or 58% all in which is still 3 pts lower than the 10k mark for F90.
Any chance they are dropping the residuals on the 2019's to make the 2018's more attractive to get rid of some inventory? My dealer has three 2018's unspoken for. Not sure how inventory is nationwide.
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