Drove the F90 M5 for a extended period- My thoughts inside/pics
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2024 C8 Z06- 2025 BMW CS- 2022 Porsche 992 GTS
They are a MY 19 but his point was the non CE cars have zero change except that Apple Car Play is std vs an option. Other than that 19's are the same and the CE is not a package but instead a different car with the pricing built into the base msrp. In the past it was called a Competition Package aka ZCP and was listed in the monroney as an itemized option but now its an Edition and its own msrp.
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2018 AMG E63S
Let me preface this by stating I did drive the M5 last week but was limited in how I wanted to adjust the settings and push the car. But a good friend is a now in charge of a local BMW store so he let me take the First Edition M5 for a longer test drive where I was able to really push the car and drive it bigger turns and tighter corners as well. I also was able to dissect the interior further for comfort and functionality vs our AMG's.
Here some cliff notes:
<snipped [A LOT] for the sake of TL;DR>
Here some cliff notes:
<snipped [A LOT] for the sake of TL;DR>
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'03 E55, Range Rover Sport Supercharged, Ducati 748R
I think you’re right. Just bought the wife a new SUV and told her I’d wait a little longer for mine. Do you think she’d be convinced to give me the ok now if I told her I need to get this before the new RS7 comes out and I change my mind again? Lol
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MY17 S63AMG - MBUSA Buyback. MY16 SL63 - Sold MY19 W213 E63s. 2020 W213 E63s Wagon
Stock vs stock I would say the E lags just a small amount more but thats due to the electronics. Ive always felt that BMW has/had very responsive throttle settings, sometimes almost too touchy. I could also the attribute the difference to the amount of "push" needed on the E (more imput) than the M IMO.
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Could have been the modes you were in?? Hardware is hardware- Its in the software as a tune clearly made my E63S a more responsive unit.
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AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
Thanks for a great summary! To me, this is also why there is no compelling reason to make a switch. Other than being a shiny new toy or my wife's backpain forcing to move to a cushier ride, these cars are just so similar, ending up with minor gains in one or another area. Both MB and BMW have done a great job with each one to cater to their core audience in subtle ways.
From a design perspective I feel the AMG and especially the Edition 1 is more cohesive and stands apart from a standard E-Class. Very extrovert and I like it that way The BMW is a sleeper as you mentioned but the M5's attributes make me look forward to the M8. They just can't get the rear-ends right these days.
For anyone who hasn't pulled the trigger in the US, MY18 M5's will be a true bargain...
From a design perspective I feel the AMG and especially the Edition 1 is more cohesive and stands apart from a standard E-Class. Very extrovert and I like it that way
The BMW is a sleeper as you mentioned but the M5's attributes make me look forward to the M8. They just can't get the rear-ends right these days.For anyone who hasn't pulled the trigger in the US, MY18 M5's will be a true bargain...
Last edited by Wolfman; Aug 14, 2018 at 11:59 AM.
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From: THE Orange County, California
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Thanks for a great summary! To me, this is also why there is no compelling reason to make a switch. Other than being a shiny new toy or my wife's backpain forcing to move to a cushier ride, these cars are just so similar, ending up with minor gains in one or another area. Both MB and BMW have done a great job with each one to cater to their core audience in subtle ways.
From a design perspective I feel the AMG and especially the Edition 1 is more cohesive and stands apart from a standard E-Class. Very extrovert and I like it that way The BMW is a sleeper as you mentioned but the M5's attributes make me look forward to the M8. They just can't get the rear-ends right these days.
For anyone who hasn't pulled the trigger in the US, MY18 M5's will be a true bargain...
From a design perspective I feel the AMG and especially the Edition 1 is more cohesive and stands apart from a standard E-Class. Very extrovert and I like it that way
The BMW is a sleeper as you mentioned but the M5's attributes make me look forward to the M8. They just can't get the rear-ends right these days.For anyone who hasn't pulled the trigger in the US, MY18 M5's will be a true bargain...
I have to say the M5 even in sport plus damper mode was much much more compliant than our cars in Comfort mode. Night and day... something that didnt bother me though either way with the E or M, yet again just two different ways to drive a nice handling car.
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GT63S ePerformance 4dr, '25 Bentayga Black Ed.(wife), Wrangler and 250 MLB(kids)
Btw, had the new Alpina B7 through Turo this weekend in LA and was floored by how good that entire package was.
Last edited by absent; Aug 14, 2018 at 08:23 PM.
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2018 E63S Wagon
The M5 has a torque converter while the E63 has a wet clutch. It's why the M5's launch control will only hold for a few seconds, because the brakes are the only thing keeping you from rolling off while the E63 can sit revving and it just drops the clutch, which is why it launches harder.
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'03 E55, Range Rover Sport Supercharged, Ducati 748R
The M5 has a torque converter while the E63 has a wet clutch. It's why the M5's launch control will only hold for a few seconds, because the brakes are the only thing keeping you from rolling off while the E63 can sit revving and it just drops the clutch, which is why it launches harder.
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2018 E63S Wagon
Maybe Pre-W213
And some magazine had the M5 go into limp mode from trying to launch, had to drive it around until it went away while the other host stood beside the E63, waiting.
Writing off the current E63's transmission because of history would be a mistake.
Both are awesome cars with almost identical performance. It mainly comes down to which you like being in better.
But mark my words, when they facelift the new M5, they will get rid of the physical rings in the instrument cluster and go full digital.
And some magazine had the M5 go into limp mode from trying to launch, had to drive it around until it went away while the other host stood beside the E63, waiting.
Writing off the current E63's transmission because of history would be a mistake.
Both are awesome cars with almost identical performance. It mainly comes down to which you like being in better.
But mark my words, when they facelift the new M5, they will get rid of the physical rings in the instrument cluster and go full digital.
Last edited by Carac; Aug 15, 2018 at 09:19 AM.
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The car(s) I drove had the rings but they are displayed digitally. There are no more hard pieces and a needle for that matter.
If I am actually using launch control then I think the MCT is going to have the advantage based on what Carac stated but for impromptu line up with no LC- it would be a toss up under brake boost. I used to brake boost my tuned RS7's and Bentley with nice results via the ZF.
Last edited by Vic55; Aug 15, 2018 at 10:50 AM.
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2018 E63S Wagon
The car(s) I drove have the analog rings but they are displayed digitally. There are no more hard pieces and a needle for that matter.
If I am actually using launch control then I think the MCT is going to have the advantage based on what Carac stated but for impromptu line up with no LC- it would be a toss up under brake boost. I used to brake boost my tuned RS7's and Bentley with nice results via the ZF.
If I am actually using launch control then I think the MCT is going to have the advantage based on what Carac stated but for impromptu line up with no LC- it would be a toss up under brake boost. I used to brake boost my tuned RS7's and Bentley with nice results via the ZF.
Last edited by Carac; Aug 15, 2018 at 10:54 AM.
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I meant the rings that are just sitting on the black screen when the car is off that look dumb and tacked on where some designer just couldn't let go of having a physical representation of the outline of a dial instead of just a digital outline. They're already admitting it's a mistake with the 8 series, X-5, and every other new BMW that has the full digital display, no silver plastic trim over the screen. The 5-series was this weird halfstep where they could have gone screen only like everyone else but just couldn't let go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNGkIa4QXSY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNGkIa4QXSY
Oh hahaah I see what you meant now. I didnt really notice it much as I was focused on the HUD which is slightly better IMO than the E's.
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2018 E63S Wagon
And I agree about the HUD, I just wish they would stop aligning the LCD used in the HUD diagonally so it worked with polarized glasses. When they first started putting LCD's all over the place in cars, companies like Ray-ban started to shift the polarization 45 degrees so that you could see the screens. Then the car companies rotated the alignment of pixels to "fix" a problem glasses companies already had (a new pair of glasses is cheaper than a new car) so now the new glasses that were changed to work with LCDs are once again aligned with the HUD so it's half brightness looking straight at the windshield, invisible if you turn your head 45 degrees one way, and full brightness if you turn it 45 the other. That's an aside, but I just had to rant.
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It's doubly confusing because the i8 I bought in 2014 was already sporting a full LCD display when almost no one else was and they went backwards from there.
And I agree about the HUD, I just wish they would stop aligning the LCD used in the HUD diagonally so it worked with polarized glasses. When they first started putting LCD's all over the place in cars, companies like Ray-ban started to shift the polarization 45 degrees so that you could see the screens. Then the car companies rotated the alignment of pixels to "fix" a problem glasses companies already had (a new pair of glasses is cheaper than a new car) so now the new glasses that were changed to work with LCDs are once again aligned with the HUD so it's half brightness looking straight at the windshield, invisible if you turn your head 45 degrees one way, and full brightness if you turn it 45 the other. That's an aside, but I just had to rant.
And I agree about the HUD, I just wish they would stop aligning the LCD used in the HUD diagonally so it worked with polarized glasses. When they first started putting LCD's all over the place in cars, companies like Ray-ban started to shift the polarization 45 degrees so that you could see the screens. Then the car companies rotated the alignment of pixels to "fix" a problem glasses companies already had (a new pair of glasses is cheaper than a new car) so now the new glasses that were changed to work with LCDs are once again aligned with the HUD so it's half brightness looking straight at the windshield, invisible if you turn your head 45 degrees one way, and full brightness if you turn it 45 the other. That's an aside, but I just had to rant.
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Maybe Pre-W213
https://youtu.be/_itnGRWnQi0
And some magazine had the M5 go into limp mode from trying to launch, had to drive it around until it went away while the other host stood beside the E63, waiting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfZtr6Sc6q0
Writing off the current E63's transmission because of history would be a mistake.
https://youtu.be/_itnGRWnQi0
And some magazine had the M5 go into limp mode from trying to launch, had to drive it around until it went away while the other host stood beside the E63, waiting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfZtr6Sc6q0
Writing off the current E63's transmission because of history would be a mistake.
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I see the zero to 60 numbers as being better in almost every scenario but I know that doesnt mean the actual launch is better which I believe you are alluding to. (60 ft).
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The M5 and AMG are so close objectively now that it really just comes down to subjective feelings about the two.
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'03 E55, Range Rover Sport Supercharged, Ducati 748R
Yes, 0-60 times are better and I think that’s representative for typical street use. When you get to the track and start going all out, 60ft times are not (yet) showing an improvement.
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I like the MCT for its racey feel but it can be annoying with the downshifts and thuds- while the ZF is buttery smooth but one cant always feel the car responding to the gear changes. Again, two ways to win!!!
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'03 E55, Range Rover Sport Supercharged, Ducati 748R
If owning AMGs for a decade+ is your standard, then I would be included in your study group. While I certainly acknowledge that there are improvements, I can probably name just as many objective detractors when it comes to this transmission. But at the end of the day, as you said, it does come down to subjective opinion.
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I agree, and i think the 0-60 time is only better now because it has more power than the previous models but not because of it launching any better.
Im almost sure that without LC or brake boost, just using the mash-and-go method the M5 with the torque converter will launch harder than the E63s MCT.
Im almost sure that without LC or brake boost, just using the mash-and-go method the M5 with the torque converter will launch harder than the E63s MCT.
