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Longevity for our engine/transmission

 
Old 10-05-2018, 01:46 AM
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Longevity for our engine/transmission

I’m starting this thread as a concern that I have from a different discussion . How many miles do you expect our engine and transmission to last? Please consider normal driving style ( mostly “Comfort”, with occasional “Sport+, very rare “Race” mode).
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Old 10-05-2018, 05:04 AM
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I'm sure others may be chime in with more sophisticated responses so take mine with a grain of salt, my opinion is not based on any statistics but mostly on:
1] Owning several AMGs
2] Knowing AMG owners in the community
3] Being proactive in service issues and reading through service bulletins as a means to get smarter and predict reliability issues
4] Being in touch with our country's AMG importer (CEO) and a couple of dealerships on a friendly basis

Given the car will be used as you describe:
AMG Speedshift MCT 9-speed could last the lifetime of the car

M177.980 V8 4.0l engine used currently in these models
• Mercedes-AMG C63 and C63 S
• Mercedes-AMG E63 and E63 S
• Mercedes-AMG S63
• Mercedes-AMG GLC63 and GLC63 S
• Mercedes-AMG GT63 and GT63 S 4-Door
• Aston Martin DB11 V8
• Aston Martin Vantage
Could last well over 100-150,000miles without anything major happening.

You might encounter other problems with your AMG, such as creaking suspension, faulty electronics, leaky airmatic shocks, damaged coolers (A/C, heat exchangers, intercoolers), rattles in the interior, not the best fit and finish on some trim parts and the later your car will be built, the more issues (eg. https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-c63s-...il-recall.html) will be already solved.

Overall I'm confident 2019+ M177 cars will be quite bulletproof (I hope) as a daily driver.

I'd be happy to hear from others on this interesting topic.
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Old 10-05-2018, 10:56 AM
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Hey friends,

Friend of mine drives an C63s 2018 with a TTE Hybrid Turbo at 745 Crank Horsepower. for 25.000 miles already and a lot of drag events.
The car has a total of 41.000 miles. No Problems at all up to now. The M177 in the C63s has smaller Turbos and different pistons ( the E should have better ones).
This Car is based in Germany and runs frequently over 186 mph on the Autobahn. Another friend is testing a turbo upgrade Stage on the E63s 2018 with 1100 crank horse power at the moment.

I know many tuned/Turboupgraded M177 by now. No issues up to now. But we have to wait some time to get more miles .
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Old 10-05-2018, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by E63S.Muc View Post
Hey friends,

Friend of mine drives an C63s 2018 with a TTE Hybrid Turbo at 745 Crank Horsepower. for 25.000 miles already and a lot of drag events.
The car has a total of 41.000 miles. No Problems at all up to now. The M177 in the C63s has smaller Turbos and different pistons ( the E should have better ones).
This Car is based in Germany and runs frequently over 186 mph on the Autobahn. Another friend is testing a turbo upgrade Stage on the E63s 2018 with 1100 crank horse power at the moment.

I know many tuned/Turboupgraded M177 by now. No issues up to now. But we have to wait some time to get more miles .
E63 S model has forged internals
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Old 10-05-2018, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Jan AMG View Post
You might encounter other problems with your AMG, such as creaking suspension, faulty electronics, leaky airmatic shocks, (...)
I believe these are the most probable issues.
Cars are not made to last nowadays, specifically performance version ones
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Old 10-06-2018, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by tonecas View Post
I believe these are the most probable issues.
Cars are not made to last nowadays, specifically performance version ones
right. An e250 diesel on the other hand ... better last you 200,000 miles with upkeep and attention to recommended maintenance schedule
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Old 10-06-2018, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterUbers View Post


right. An e250 diesel on the other hand ... better last you 200,000 miles with upkeep and attention to recommended maintenance schedule
the best way to “run” car as long you can is to keep it in garage under the cover.
People buying brand new cars with long warranty to drive it and don’t think about a headache
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Old 10-06-2018, 03:08 PM
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And what it used to be about, not sure of amg's ideals lately:



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Old 10-06-2018, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterUbers View Post
And what it used to be about, not sure of amg's ideals lately:



Engines, not suspensions or even transmissions
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Old 10-08-2018, 12:36 PM
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That "ideal" is gone for sure. V12 is also heading out AMG's door. Not sure where Pagani is going to source its V12 after that.
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Old 10-08-2018, 02:24 PM
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So, after seeing everybody's comments, it looks like the best we could hope for from an engine perspective is up to $150k miles. If true, to me it's absolutely insane and unacceptable that an AMG/Mercedes engine which has phenomenal reputation from a quality perspective (is it just advertising and marketing???!!!) would only last around 150k miles before starting having issues. In the 80's, Ford used to last until about 90-100k miles while the Japanese brands (Toyota, Honda, Mazda, Nissan, Mitsubishi, etc) would push easily the 150k miles mark without ANY problems. 35+ years later, one of the best engines on the Planet is maybe good for 150k miles. Where's the fault in my logic? Are you guys not seeing this??!!!! Without joking, I was expecting a minimum of 500k miles of perfection and problem-free experience from an AMG engine which now has the advantage of today's latest technology and innovation and costs an arm and a leg. What's the catch here?!
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Old 10-08-2018, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by tirzaman View Post
So, after seeing everybody's comments, it looks like the best we could hope for from an engine perspective is up to $150k miles. If true, to me it's absolutely insane and unacceptable that an AMG/Mercedes engine which has phenomenal reputation from a quality perspective (is it just advertising and marketing???!!!) would only last around 150k miles before starting having issues. In the 80's, Ford used to last until about 90-100k miles while the Japanese brands (Toyota, Honda, Mazda, Nissan, Mitsubishi, etc) would push easily the 150k miles mark without ANY problems. 35+ years later, one of the best engines on the Planet is maybe good for 150k miles. Where's the fault in my logic? Are you guys not seeing this??!!!! Without joking, I was expecting a minimum of 500k miles of perfection and problem-free experience from an AMG engine which now has the advantage of today's latest technology and innovation and costs an arm and a leg. What's the catch here?!
the issue is not the engine... it's the other components.
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Old 10-08-2018, 05:22 PM
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[QUOTE=tirzaman;7572375]So, after seeing everybody's comments, it looks like the best we could hope for from an engine perspective is up to $150k miles. If true, to me it's absolutely insane and unacceptable that an AMG/Mercedes engine which has phenomenal reputation from a quality perspective (is it just advertising and marketing???!!!) would only last around 150k miles before starting having issues. In the 80's, Ford used to last until about 90-100k miles while the Japanese brands (Toyota, Honda, Mazda, Nissan, Mitsubishi, etc) would push easily the 150k miles mark without ANY problems. 35+ years later, one of the best engines on the Planet is maybe good for 150k miles. Where's the fault in my logic? Are you guys not seeing this??!!!! Without joking, I was expecting a minimum of 500k miles of perfection and problem-free experience from an AMG engine which now has the advantage of today's latest technology and innovation and costs an arm and a leg. What's the catch here?![/QUOTE]

Very simply, one thing...Power and a LOT of it. If you want to say that cars have not advanced from the standpoint of reliability, I would say that is unfair. In 1983 the Honda prelude made 100hp(ish) from 1.8Liters, in 1986 the Ford Mustang GT "5.0" made..225(!) hp. This car makes 600HP! and it does it from 4 liters....can you imagine how hard that is to do, with any kind of reliability?! I think it is monumental that a 4 liter motor makes that kind of power, and will last 100k with just oil changes...are you kidding me?!?! I think you may want to just take a breath and think about what AMG has accomplished with this motor.

Then again, maybe you're just trolling here, and all of this is moot....

M
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Old 10-08-2018, 09:29 PM
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[QUOTE=pb12;7572520]
Originally Posted by tirzaman View Post
Very simply, one thing...Power and a LOT of it. If you want to say that cars have not advanced from the standpoint of reliability, I would say that is unfair. In 1983 the Honda prelude made 100hp(ish) from 1.8Liters, in 1986 the Ford Mustang GT "5.0" made..225(!) hp. This car makes 600HP! and it does it from 4 liters....can you imagine how hard that is to do, with any kind of reliability?! I think it is monumental that a 4 liter motor makes that kind of power, and will last 100k with just oil changes...are you kidding me?!?! I think you may want to just take a breath and think about what AMG has accomplished with this motor.

Then again, maybe you're just trolling here, and all of this is moot....M
Ok, gobs of power is a good point. However, one would think that everything in that engine is made to sustain that power. If you claim 600hp then your engine (and everything else about the car) has to be engineered, tested and released to the public with that basic guarantee of quality for 2018 and not the 80’s. The high price that you demand as a premier manufacturer should be backed up by your workmanship, quality and engineering. Anyway, I think we’ve digressed a bit especially once we brought in our own subjective expectations.

I started all this “trolling” because this is my first AMG and unfortunately I’m in the buyback process with Mercedes due to some quality issues. I like the car a lot and I was thinking of giving AMG another chance and buy another E63S with the assumption that I simply got a lemon and if I try again chances are on my side to get a phenomenal car. Then I started to doubt my assumptions of perfection, the-best-or-nothing mantra and inquired about the quality of AMG engines which brought me here.

Thanks everyone who chimed in on this issue.
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Old 10-08-2018, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by otakki View Post
That "ideal" is gone for sure. V12 is also heading out AMG's door. Not sure where Pagani is going to source its V12 after that.
They are continuing to build them, just aren't going to be any new model V12, nor any further development. The existing M277/279 is all we get for the foreseeable future. It's not really possible to compete in the v12 luxury segment with a v8 though, so I'm curious to see how that goes in 10 years, as the 279 is already a quite old design (basic 137 mechanical setup from the 90's)
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Old 10-09-2018, 09:46 AM
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Is the new m5 having any significant issues?
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Old 10-09-2018, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by PeterUbers View Post
Is the new m5 having any significant issues?
no issues at all on 3 m5
one of them st2 14000km
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Old 10-09-2018, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by dav461 View Post


no issues at all on 3 m5
one of them st2 14000km
Out of curiosity, does the new M5 still eat engine oil by the gallons?
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Old 10-09-2018, 12:01 PM
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[QUOTE=tirzaman;7572705]
Originally Posted by pb12 View Post
Ok, gobs of power is a good point. However, one would think that everything in that engine is made to sustain that power. If you claim 600hp then your engine (and everything else about the car) has to be engineered, tested and released to the public with that basic guarantee of quality for 2018 and not the 80’s. The high price that you demand as a premier manufacturer should be backed up by your workmanship, quality and engineering. Anyway, I think we’ve digressed a bit especially once we brought in our own subjective expectations.

I started all this “trolling” because this is my first AMG and unfortunately I’m in the buyback process with Mercedes due to some quality issues. I like the car a lot and I was thinking of giving AMG another chance and buy another E63S with the assumption that I simply got a lemon and if I try again chances are on my side to get a phenomenal car. Then I started to doubt my assumptions of perfection, the-best-or-nothing mantra and inquired about the quality of AMG engines which brought me here.

Thanks everyone who chimed in on this issue.
It is not only the mechanical parts, it's the electric/electronic ones. As cars have been increasingly tech sofisticated durability has decreased.


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Old 10-09-2018, 01:17 PM
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I wouldn't be so quick to let the AMG go, there will be more comprehensive solutions to this check engine light issue in the near future. the new AMG's are one heck of a car and there are very few cars that can replace them. The BMW's guaranteed are gonna have their own issues too, every car does.
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Old 10-09-2018, 03:45 PM
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Still very surprised there is no real solution to the 1/6 CEL problem
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Old 10-09-2018, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by tirzaman View Post

Out of curiosity, does the new M5 still eat engine oil by the gallons?
0 oil added at all.

Originally Posted by izzy63 View Post
Still very surprised there is no real solution to the 1/6 CEL problem
return car to the dealer where you bought it from. Don’t know the rules in your country , here, customer right allows you to do so through the court, if your car bought brand new and had same issue twice in a row or your car was in repair for longer than 45days in 1 calendar year
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Old 10-09-2018, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by tirzaman View Post
I’m starting this thread as a concern that I have from a different discussion . How many miles do you expect our engine and transmission to last? Please consider normal driving style ( mostly “Comfort”, with occasional “Sport+, very rare “Race” mode).
This depends on a lot of factors. Is your amg a face life or pre face lift? For first year model, there will always be problems with engine, trans and electronic. I would get the end of model cycle if I plan on keeping it for 10 plus years as all the bugs will be ironed out. Amg engine and transmission are build to be driven hard so with normal driving style, so I have no doubt it will last a very long time if not abuse regularly. These amg engine and transmission are over engineer to hold a lot of power and torque. The only thing I would worry about is how long the turbo last and all the electronics past 100k miles. I own a 2007 e350 4matic before the c63s coupe, it's fully option out & kept it for about 10 years with almost 360k miles. The engine blew and had to be rebuild other than that no electronic issue, rattles or any build quality issues. I did abuse the e350 from time to time and mostly use it to drive from Georgia to Florida and back to Chicago a lot. I can't say the same for the newer amg because it's basically a computer controlling everything. Also ecu tuning and downpipes is a no no for me if I plan on keeping it for 10 plus years.
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Old 10-10-2018, 02:04 AM
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[left][QUOTE=tonecas;7573102]
Originally Posted by tirzaman View Post


It is not only the mechanical parts, it's the electric/electronic ones. As cars have been increasingly tech sofisticated durability has decreased.

That should be true across the board for all manufacturers. Since everybody is using electronics, sensors and computers, it becomes a common element which could be canceled out in a comparison.
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Old 10-10-2018, 10:45 AM
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Correct. It's a common thread thru all the industry
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