Sport Auto just did a track comparo of the new Audi RS6 vs the E63s Wagon on the Hockenheim GP course.
Those guys are the benchmark in Germany for independent track performance info.


While the E63s beat the RS6, it wasn't by much and the RS6 performed much better than the new RS7. That said, looking at the disappointing performance of the new Audis, even the Performance versions will not likely catch-up/beat the others...

Lamborghini Huracán Evo: 1.49,0 min
BMW M8 Competition: 1.53,1 min
Porsche 911 Carrera S (992): 1.53.3 min
Mercedes-AMG GT 63S: 1.53.4 min
BMW M5 Competition: 1.54.2 min
Porsche 718 Cayman GT4: 1.55,0 min
BMW M2 CS: 1.55.8 min
Mercedes-AMG E63S 4Matic+ T: 1.56,0 min
Audi RS6 Avant (C8): 1.56,6min
Audi RS7 Sportback: 1.57.3 min
BMW M2 Competition (Semi): 1.57,6 min
Audi TT RS Performance: 1.57.7 min Toyota GR
Supra: 1.58,8 min BMW Z4 M40i: 1.59,5 min
Porsche 718 Boxster T (PDK): 1.58,8 min
Mercedes-AMG A45 S 4Matic +: 2.00,7 min

 

Thanks for sharing. That was great. We need more E63SW's on track.

 

I was kind of doing other work as the Audio portion of the clip was playing, so maybe I missed it, but it seemed to me to be more composed that the E63s on corner exits. Also looked like the E63s had a bit of trouble getting down to the apex on a corner or two.

Haven't had my car out on a track yet but have done some pretty spirited runs up the mountain in R mode. The TC still kicks in when in R mode and while the car will step out, it doesn't seem to do it as aggressively as it did a couple times in this vid. So, I'm wondering if they turned all TC off? He had to back completely out of it on one corner and then feed power back in. With TC, that wouldn't have been necessary I don't think.

The shot of the brakes glowing at the end was pretty cool

 

I just think those wagons are just too heavy to address their manners on a track. Mainly I just think they are a blast to see them do their thing. All about the fun and sounds.

 

Think that was the warm up.
IMO, the drivers view showed the E63s to be more composed and quicker on the straights.

But they are both porkers and yet pretty quick on the track
Quick enough to beat a M2 comp

 

the E63 sounds a ton better. The Audi looks a ton wider and angrier.

And I think the tires could have easily advantaged the E63 by .6 seconds........

Thanks for sharing.

 

Great vid... thanks for sharing. Those red hot brakes at the end of the vid were impressive!

I agree with earlier comment that the RS6 Avant looked more composed. I had to check which tires each used as an explanation, but the AMG had the Michelin PS... the Audi Hancooks... 285s on all four corners vs 265/295 for the AMG... hmmm.

I wonder what level of traction control the AMG had, because it was all over the place vs that RS6, which would hurt the AMG exit speeds on corners. And as someone already pointed out: the AMG got to better top speeds and sounded much better. All around entertaining, but surprised at the razor-thin delta. Now to see what the RS6 can deliver on the Nurburgring!

 

watching closely, you can see that the ESP was fully "OFF" TIMYOYO (thats it motherf*cker,youre on your own) mode. Had the burnout light on, not the "ESP Sport" verbiage.

 

Nice catch. I've never seen that light on my dash as I've never gone TIMYOYO mode! I've never tried drift mode either...
Any thoughts on whether some nanny coverage would have helped improve exit speed on the corners?
Cheers

 

Great vid, thanks.
It sure looked to me that the Audi was more composed. Not sure why you'd select TIMYOYO because every drift and every wheel spin costs time but hey, I don't even have mine yet. However it's good to know that a cool down lap or two is unquestionably necessary as I'm sure the turbos must've been glowing a little as well.

 

depends on your skill level. I ran the E63S sedan at the COTA advanced event. Then immediately rode shotgun in the same car with the instructor. He went TIMYOYO mode in it as he also did in the GTR and he was clearly way faster than during the lead follow sessions yet no spinning or excessive sliding. I did ask and he said the car was much faster that way. We weren’t allowed to turn off the nannies.

 

I suppose it depends on your skill level and familiarity with the vehicle. The AMG instructors are all ex champions of one sort or another, so pretty skilled. My GT-R hot lap driver was amazing.

Their familiarity with the AMGs and the aforementioned skill undoubtedly contributes to a smooth lap even with the nannies turned off.

The video of the E63s driver showed on at least a few corner exits he fed in too much throttle and spun up the car in a big way and had to back out, and when he did, didn't ease off the throttle but backed way off then had to feed back in. Worth a tenth or two in each case I'm sure.

 

It seems I may be alone in my observation but I suppose you could call the Audi more "composed" than the E63S but not at all in a good way. That is, if the metric is balanced handling (high performance handling). The Audi under-steers quite horribly. The driver virtually never needs to make any steering adjustments (because it's just not turning very well) in the corners and the most obvious, the loud howl of the front tires in almost every corner. High front tire slip angles and low rear tire slip angles = under-steer. BTW, wheel spin and slides do not always mean loss in cornering/grip/acceleration. In fact, for maximum cornering/grip/acceleration, you need a certain amount of slip/spin depending on the type of car and other variables. I'm not talking smoking the tires burn out but a moderate slide/drift. This is relative to the amount of grip. For example, an F1 car with high down force aero and sticky tires is not going to slip the tires nearly as much as a passenger car with street tires would to get max performance.

The E63S (thankfully) is definitely better balanced. It still under-steers a little but the driver is able to steer with the throttle to compensate and get the car to rotate out without excessive spin. He's not "waiting" nearly as much for the car to turn as he was with the Audi. Finally, 0.6 seconds per lap is a lot. In a 25 lap race, the E63S would be ahead by 15 seconds. Realistically it would probably be more because the Audi would have overheated the front tires so badly that it would be under-steering off the track.

 

Point well made.

 

It's easier to see in slow motion:


Even motorcycles:

 

Not saying this is an ideal lap but most would agree that the Ferrari 488 Pista handles very well. It goes where the driver points it. Here is onboard with the Stig who is really flogging it:

 

That is wicked cool; love me some MotoGP, thanks; point well made.

 

Back in the day Gary McCoy was known for some really great controlled slides. Enabled him to run some lines other riders couldn't match. But he frequently ran out of rear tire by the end of the race and didn't bring home the bacon.

And when I was racing we didn't have any traction control other than your right wrist. Wheelspin on the rear tire was just something you managed. Nothing more satisfying that a nice power slide that's dialed in just right, other than a nice slide accompanied by a nice little wheelie while you're still mid lean rolling upright on corner exit - as seen in the McCoy video above.

I've got some great track day video from the California Speedway where you can see some bikes I'm following laying down nice black marks on corner exit out of the midfield section up onto the banking of the front straight. Maybe I'll dig some of that up and post some day. Sadly, pre GoPro days so old mini-DV at 480 lines and not the high def stuff of today.

My point wasn't that any wheel spin is bad, just that if you're spinning up so aggressively that you have to back off almost completely and then loose time reapplying throttle, you're either being hamfooted or the car's not putting down the power in a controlled way.

As, given your avatar, I'm sure you know, snapping the throttle closed when a bike has jumped sideways is a recipe for a high side. Thankfully something I avoided in all my racing, track days, and road riding - though there were some really close calls ;-)

 

If you've never had a highside and raced you aint trying hard enough, i'm guessing you never one anything

 

One or Won?

There are plenty of faster folks out there, but I did OK for a club level guy who didn't start racing till the year I turned 40.

In my amateur year in 1998 with the Southwestern division of CCS I won the heavyweight sport bike championship as well as the heavyweight endurance championship and finished 2nd in the Sr. sport bike and heavyweight superbike championship. Would have won the Sr. sport bike championship as well but didn't start racing in that category until I actually turned 40, as I didn't know I was eligible to race in the year I turned 40. Also finished 4th overall in total points across all categories for the division. Out of 18 races I had two 4th place finishes, one 5th, and the rest were either 1st, 2nd, or 3rd.

In 2001 I raced as an expert. Competition definitely stepped up significantly in the expert class. Had a bunch of top 10 finishes, some top 5, and one win in the HW superbike class in the rain which I was quite happy with as one guy had full wets versus my street tires - D207s or whatever they were back then. I was taken out of a race July 1, 2001 by a guy who lowsided while attempting to pass me for 3rd place while turning on to the front straight at Buttonwillow. Had a concussion and had to go for an ambulance ride to Bakersfield and get checked out - was OK and eventually remembered pretty much everything up about the last corner or two before the crash and from being loaded into the ambulance. In August I had to travel for work to Aberdeen, Scotland for several weeks and missed the races that month. In the meantime we learned my wife was pregnant with our first child and I was trying to decide whether to keep racing or not. We flew home from Scotland on Sept 9th, 2001 and we know what happened a couple days later. That cancelled the race for the next month. At that point I decided to pull the plug and stop racing. Still finished 7th in the HW superbike class in point even with the missed races.

Was a lot of fun. Raced with Anthony and Aaron Gobert along with Tommy Hayden who all came to our club race at the Streets of Willow Springs for some early practice in advance of the start of the AMA season. Another guy who was there that day I used to ride with at Palomar Mt., who went on to race in at the Isle of Man and some other street events was Jeremy Toye. Finished on the lead lap with all of them.

Edit Link added to Jeremy doing the Pikes Peak race. Looks like camera slipped in the mount exaggerating lean angle in right hand turns, just tilt your head a bit to correct Still insane.

Have done track days with Jake Zemke, Roger Lee Hayden, Rich Oliver, Doug Chandler, and various and sundry other folks.

Here's a gratuitous poser shot over the wheelie hump in the back section of Buttonwillow.


Another of me following someone at the Arizona Motorsports Park (AMP) track doing on-track video for a web site I had called Trackcam.com - since sold.


I continued to do track days until 2003 when several things happened. My friend Dave Emde died on Old Julian Highway while riding with some of my other friends and ex racing buddies. Tucked the front end while braking for a turn and slid off the road impacting rocks below. A crash that would have been a nothing event on the track. On the following two successive weekends, other riders on Palomar Mt. blew right hand turns and came across into my lane head on. At that point with two small children at home I decided to get off the street and switch to dual sport bikes.

I first met Dave Emde at Palomar Mt. After riding with a couple of us a few times he encouraged several of us to go to the track. Dave was an instructor at that time for the DP Safety school. So took a class with them and after some further encouragement from him went racing.

Dave was inducted into the AMA Motorcycle Hall of Fame in 2010
http://www.motorcyclemuseum.org/hall...px?RacerID=437

 

Jeez!! My ex race 1198R in my kitchen! few cheeky pics of my race team 2 848 and my 1198R in awning had to run 61 as someone had already nicked 66 that year, me bored and last one of myself having a quick holiday in portugal so went to portimao on a stock 1198S for 3 days fantastic circuit! i also had my best mate killed on the roads on an R7! Still think of him everyday although was 14 years ago