E63S Hopeful

Hello Folks,

I posted this in the General discussion forum, but was advised that I should try here as well.

Got word not too long ago that the family will be moving to Frankfurt, Germany in 2022. Granted, we will only be there for a few years, but I was instantly excited with the idea of a European delivery of an E63S Wagon. Naturally I got on mbusa to spec one out followed quickly by emails to surrounding dealerships. Exciting right?!

Nope...

Both dealerships (medium volume?) informed me that European Delivery was cancelled due to COVID, and if I wanted to order one for delivery in the U.S. it would be a 8 - 12 month wait, only if they could get an allocation. UGH. While I should have no reason to be suspicious of what they are telling me, I find myself not wanting to take their word for it (still wary of dealership shenanigans). Thus the reason I am posting here.

* Would there happen to be any "insiders" on this forum that can either confirm what I am being told, or point me in the right direction?
* Would there happen to be any "insiders" on this forum that can tell me if Diplomatic pricing is still being offered?

Thank you in advance for any and all help from a hopeful buyer!

Mike

superswiss

Yes, unfortunately European Delivery is no more. It got terminated in November of last year. Partly due to COVID, but also the programs have seen very little interest recently due to several reasons. Mainly because of Americans buying mostly SUVs these days, and most of them are built in the USA, so they were never eligible for ED. Both Audi and BMW have terminated their programs earlier. COVID was just kind of the last nail in the coffin for MB's program. I got my last ED in in 2019 before the world went belly up. Either way, ED wouldn't really be an option for what you are planning. You could have only kept the car in Europe for up to 12 months.

As for ordering one, it's actually even worse. As reported in another tread, the E63 has been cancelled for 2022, or at least delayed indefinitely supposedly due to MB not meeting their fuel economy target and facing billions in fines as a result. Existing orders have been cancelled.

E63S Hopeful

Superswiss,

What about this option?

Once arriving in Germany, I walk into a MB dealer and ask for the Diplomatic representative. Tell him or her that I would like to purchase/order an American spec'ed. E63S Wagon, for my use while living in Germany. Once my tour is complete in Germany, the vehicle is transported home with me back to America. This is pretty much the process that my wife and I went through in Vienna, Austria when we ordered her Volvo XC90 (except that we took delivery of that at the factory in Gothenberg, Sweden).

Mike

superswiss

I'm not familiar with the diplomatic or military programs, but I'm assuming they are still active. However, as said, there is no more E63 until further notice, so walking into a dealership in Germany won't do you any good, unless you buy used or find a leftover. But dealerships in Germany as you may know don't really have inventory like US dealers do, so you'd have to order a car.

E63S Hopeful

Appreciate the replies Superswiss.

Yes, you are correct about the European dealerships not carrying inventory. Plus, even if I could order a 2022 once in Germany, then I'd have to wait at least 2 - 4 months before the vehicle was manufactured, and in the interim fork over money for a rental...

I need to finish this current deployment so I can get home and start the search for a 2020 (if there are any left).

Mike

6G Schnell

Caveat: Delivery time in Europe is much worse than in the US: friend of mine purchased MB in Austria and it took forever to get delivered...

superswiss

It also looks like it's gonna get worse before it gets better. I just read that despite the delays that have already occurred, they have been kinda coasting by with existing semiconductor inventories so far, but those inventories are running dry.

E63S Hopeful

That's crazy! So much has been screwed up due to current worldwide events. I guess I should be happy that we were able to experience the Volvo delivery experience when things were "normal".

Off to the used car listings for me!

Mike

78degrees

If you are staying for several years, maybe you should buy an european version? No reason to get the american version while staying in europe..

E63S Hopeful

I have a sneaking suspicion that I am not going to want to part with it after just a few years of use. Plus, cars are extremely more expensive in Europe as they add a VAT tax....$$$$$$

superswiss

As far as I know, and I just checked on one of the sites that handle military sales, you still have to pay VAT. In fact for any car that remains in Europe longer than 12 months you have to pay VAT and can't reclaim it when the car is finally exported. This was also true for European Delivery. You could technically keep an ED car in Europe for longer than 12 months, but at that point it lost its export status and the VAT became due. This was specifically stated in the ED documents.

I honestly would also lean towards buying an EU spec vehicle if I stayed in Europe for several years. There are other aspects such as being able to use all the features in the car. MB does a good job coding the car for the EU market while it's there. For example they install the European maps, so the navigation technically works along with the driver assistance features that depend on the maps to automatically slow down for roundabouts, intersections, exits etc. and traffic signs are properly recognized, however, the online services don't work, so there is no live traffic. I stayed for 2 months with my C63S and ended up using Google Maps over CarPlay in order to have live traffic. Not a show stopper and much better than my previous ED with Audi where pretty much nothing worked while in Europe and I had to mount my phone for navigation.

E63S Hopeful

As an American we can only purchase American spec'ed cars for transport back to the U.S. Under the diplomatic program with Volvo a significant amount was saved on the purchase price, ansd zero VAT had to be payed. We were allowed to register it and drive it in Austria for the last year we were there, and Volvo shipped it back to the U.S. for next to nothing (I think it was $500). We also were able to avoid Virginia sales tax when we registered the Volvo as it was just over 12 months old by the time it entered the American DMV systems.

Due to the previously experienced Volvo sale, I had hopes that MB was doing the same for Diplomats....but it appears to not be the case.

Mike

superswiss

I think you got away w/o paying VAT, because you actually exported it out of Sweden and it sounds like it was registered for less than 12 months in Austria. I think the same would be the case if the new car didn't remain in Germany for more than 12 months and you registered it in another European country. Not sure if MB would still ship it after 12 months. For ED cars they wouldn't ship them anymore after 12 months and it became your responsibility to ship them.

E63S Hopeful

The intent with the 2022 was to place the order from the U.S. prior to going to Germany. Take delivery of it in Stuttgart. Use it as our family car for our tour there (completely allowed for Diplomats). Have it shipped back for free (paid for by Gov't). Register it back in the U.S. and drive off into the sunset.

But, it appears I will now be on the search for a used 2020 Unicorn to take with us to Germany.

Mike

r3dbenz89

If the OP is in the US military, military personnel are exempt from VAT in any NATO country regardless of length of time. As well, your final pricing is a special military pricing that is cheaper than buying a Euro spec car. The car is a US spec car, thus, you avoid all of the import regulation issues for a non US spec car. As well, I believe Merc will honor the warranty if the vehicle is imported back to the states before the 4 year/50k mile expiration date. A family member used this service when stationed in Bavaria for a BMW. They got transferred to WA state and the car was shipped without a hitch.

They were able to pick up the car up from the Welt in Munich like any Euro delivery purchase. Though, you are subject to the standard lead times as any other European buyer. Remember Euro dealerships usually custom order a car for everyone and rarely carries inventory unlike US dealers. Thus, you have to wait in line behind all those other customers as allocations come in versus the US where very few custom order and most buy off the lot.

It'll be quite costly to try and import a used car to Germany and get it registered to their crazy new emission standards. You know there are these Umweltplakette stickers that essentially forbid a lot of heavier polluting vehicles from entering certain zones that would otherwise probably get it away just fine in the US.

E63S Hopeful

r3dbenz89,

Thanks for putting it into words for me. I wasn't doing well with explaining myself.

Given everything that is transpiring with MB and the rest of the world, I feel it would be way too risky to head to Germany without a vehicle. I'd hate to get there and find out that my ordering plan for a 2022 was squashed/cancelled/delayed.

Mike

superswiss

Yes, I'm aware of the special arrangements that US military personal has. I checked the site below and they all stated under the price that VAT can't be reclaimed, but I just clicked around some more and they have a page for U.S. Diplomatic sales. This is for BMW, though. OP, I would say you should contact Mercedes-Benz and inquire specifically about their diplomatic program. It sounds like at least these guys keep an inventory of cars for diplomats, so you don't even have to order one.

https://bavarianmotorcars.com/en/us-diplomatic-sales

utsteve98

I was in Germany 3 months ago and there were a lot of cars in inventory at many MB and BMW dealerships so I don’t think you will have any problems finding a car there.

Pioneer222

Good luck,, I bought an E63s, us spec'd, while in Germany. Took delivery, met engine maker, was awesome and used it there. Every day was a once in a life time experience. While this was pre covid I woul be glad to share any info. The GM over the program was out of Frankfurt and there may be some options. It may not work with MB, but even another high end car , wagon SUV?

Pioneer222

Also, FYI, buying a German spec one can easily cost 50 percent more. They are not optioned the same and taxes are built in.. you may be exempt though...

E63S Hopeful

Contacting MB was going to be the next course of action, but since production has been halted and not likely to come back, there seems to be no reason.

Bavarian Motorcars unfortunately does not carry MB as part of their Brand Offering, and neither does Military Autosource. Both of these vendors offer Audi and would very happily sell me a custom order RS6 Avant at below MSRP, but I am not a big fan of the Audi. Looks and feels a little bland, not to mention, neither of the dealerships I went to would allow me to test drive it, and were also asking for $30,000 above sticker. Way to build a customer base Audi!

All I can do right now is watch the used market and hope the timing of my current overseas trip lines up with something I want.

Mike

E63S Hopeful

Yes European delivery is entirely worth it! I already experienced it with my wife's Volvo in Sweden back in 2017.

We aren't and never were interested in a German spec'ed car. It would have been American spec'ed, and for our use during our tour there, at which point we would bring it back to America with us. Just as with our Volvo, U.S. sales tax would be avoided along with property tax for the during of our time in Europe. Once the vehicle returned to America with us, it is then a 3 year old car and property taxes are much lower (comparatively speaking).

But none of this really matters anymore, because MB has decided to put the "HALT" :-) on production.

Mike

superswiss

The RS6 situation is insane in the USA. It's all that pent up demand of a fast Audi wagon. I wouldn't describe the RS6 as bland, though, at least not the looks. The E63 wagon to me looks bland as it doesn't look much different from a regular E class wagon, whereas the RS6 has those wide hunches and simply looks mean. Best looking Audi at the moment, IMO. I do however agree that the driving experience is a bit bland. I come from 10+ years of Audi. My last one was a 2013 RS5 with that glorious 8500 rpm naturally aspirated V8. It had true character and was a hoot. That's lacking in the current generation, except for the R8, and why I switched to AMG, but on the plus side the current RS models are better daily drivers. The RS6 is probably the best riding performance wagon currently. It just is a bit subdued, but that's Audi. It's a sports car in a business suit.

E63S Hopeful

I just need a dealer to get off their 'high horse' and allow me to test one out. When a dealer tells me "the only way we'll let you test this, is if you agree to buy it", or "we've marked it up because we're the only dealer in the area that has one", they just lost a buyer. I know its a rare car at the moment, but I prefer making an educated decision vs. an emotional one when it comes to buying a six figure vehicle.

Maybe I'll find one I can test.

Mike

superswiss

I'm totally with you. This is the attitude BMW dealers had for a very long time with their M models, specifically the M3/4 and is why I never bought one. The idea of having to endure a credit check and sign papers just so they let me test drive one is insulting. I guess you have to show up with a briefcase full of cash, and then maybe they let you drive one....haha. Having said that I bought my RS5 effectively sight unseen and did European Delivery. First time I drove one was mine after flying to Germany and taking delivery. However, I did my due diligence and I just knew I was gonna like it. Before that I only saw one in person at the San Francisco Auto Show and it was locked, so couldn't even sit in it. The RS5 was limited production, so there simply were none to test drive. All orders were sold orders, but back then the dealerships at least the ones I talked to didn't do the whole markup. Well, that's not quite true. I didn't get the ED discount, so technically I guess it was a markup on top of the ED price, but the ED discount is technically at the discretion of the dealership and not guaranteed. I did get loyalty discount, though.

I effectively bought my '19 C63S sight unseen, too, because it was the FL and there were also none to test drive. I test drove the PFL and actually didn't like it as much, but with all the changes the FL had I knew it had all the things fixed that I didn't like about the PFL. In this case, though, I eventually found one to test drive before I flew to Germany, so I could have still cancelled the order if I truly didn't like it.