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The SA got some feedback from the service manager and the mechanic’s theory on why the RMS has failed again is potentially due to lack of use and just sitting on the lot.
It certainly tracks with a few running theories from earlier in this thread but I digress.
I’ve asked to see if the dealer will use the updated separators pointed out to me but if they refuse, I’ll have to walk.
The SA got some feedback from the service manager and the mechanic’s theory on why the RMS has failed again is potentially due to lack of use and just sitting on the lot.
It certainly tracks with a few running theories from earlier in this thread but I digress.
I’ve asked to see if the dealer will use the updated separators pointed out to me but if they refuse, I’ll have to walk.
A damn shame indeed.
i am not buying the reason of “not driving it hard enough and/or car is sitting too often of not being driven …”. Again, mine failed at 60,000 miles and i drove mine everyday and i drove it more aggressively in the weekends for almost 6 yrs.
The SA got some feedback from the service manager and the mechanic’s theory on why the RMS has failed again is potentially due to lack of use and just sitting on the lot.
It certainly tracks with a few running theories from earlier in this thread but I digress.
I’ve asked to see if the dealer will use the updated separators pointed out to me but if they refuse, I’ll have to walk.
A damn shame indeed.
There's no way the oll separators could clog from disuse. He may be referring to how a seal can get a flat spot from sitting, but PTSS 163209 diagnoses whether the seal failed due to increased crankcase pressure from clogged oil separators.
i am not buying the reason of “not driving it hard enough and/or car is sitting too often of not being driven …”. Again, mine failed at 60,000 miles and i drove mine everyday and i drove it more aggressively in the weekends for almost 6 yrs.
Agreed, I think this is just grabbing any explanation to fill in the blank of a missing explanation.
On the other hand, if it was true, any vehicle that fails from not driving it is not a vehicle I'd want to own.
Sorry to hear of all the RMS issues and best of luck to all!
The SA got some feedback from the service manager and the mechanic’s theory on why the RMS has failed again is potentially due to lack of use and just sitting on the lot.
Rubbish. Not running the engine would prolong the life of the vapor separators.
Separators plug from condensing oil vapor (unavoidable in unheated devices as they are) which deposits sludge in the small plastic passages, check valves and diaphrams in the separators. Thereby plugging them and blowing out the RMS. The separators are a half-baked solution to address the requirement for crankcase ventilation while containing emissions.
Rubbish. Not running the engine would prolong the life of the vapor separators.
Separators plug from condensing oil vapor (unavoidable in unheated devices as they are) which deposits sludge in the small plastic passages, check valves and diaphrams in the separators. Thereby plugging them and blowing out the RMS. The separators are a half-baked solution to address the requirement for crankcase ventilation while containing emissions.
Agreed. To Bobblehead’s point, service is probably grasping at straws.
Given the nature of this issue, even if the dealer did do all the necessary part replacements and repairs again, is the consensus that this will just keep happening? Separators (updated or not) being the main issue.
Guess the question for the crowd is have we seen/heard of repeat RMS fixes occuring for 213, G, and GT (or any M177 based vehicle)? Or would my “experience” so far be an outlier?
Guess the question for the crowd is have we seen/heard of repeat RMS fixes occuring for 213, G, and GT (or any M177 based vehicle)? Or would my “experience” so far be an outlier?
Yes, an owner posted in this or another thread in the past day or so where he was looking at a car that had the RMS replaced twice because the first repair job didn't work, was bungled, or whatever reason.
Doing the separator replacement and new RMS doesn't have enough field experience to clearly state whether it is a fix, or rather only a treatment.
Just google “mercedes rear main seal leak” for example will give you all kinds of hits that spread from many different years and models …. So, it’s a common problem 😠
Just google “mercedes rear main seal leak” for example will give you all kinds of hits that spread from many different years and models …. So, it’s a common problem 😠
just curious I’m here in Toronto and after reading this and seeing my mileage at close to 80,000 I think it would be prudent to replace the front oil separators before I take a trip down the road of getting the rms done due to their failure ..
any idea on the labour rate for just this ? I asked my dealer in the west end and they’re clueless as for a quote on the labour . Doesn’t seem too difficult
as they say an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure
Mine was on a 2019 G63 at about 32,000 miles. Ive put about 5-6000 miles on it since, and no oil leaking that i'm aware of.
The good news is for my situation at least... the RMS was covered under my aftermarket 3rd party warranty. When them, and MB told me to F off to get the vapor separators changed out under warranty I opted to not have the OVS changed because they wanted me to pay 6,000.000 for that. RMS covered under warranty...
The other good news for me is that since 3rd party warranty paid for the repair, I have a 2 year unlimited mile warranty on the RMS. So if it blows out again? No problem, I'll bring it right back in to have them change it again for free. I will not pay for the OVS to be swapped. MB can eat it, or deal with paying the dealer to continue to change it every 23 months.
When I barked that they should be replacing the OVS also, they told me it was anecdotal, and that emissions items are not covered under the 8 yr 80k mile warranty anyway. 3rd party warranty also does not cover emissions items. which the OVS is considered emissions. they are 1 of 3-4 parts NOT covered under the 8yr 80k emissions warranty (convenient isnt it?)... So when I go back and say to fix the RMS again for free, and they tell me I have to pay because I declined the OVS replacement? I'll say..., "sorry bud, you guys told me it was anecdotal, show me where it's proven the OVS is the cause.... SHOW ME THE DOCUMENT from MB USA stating the OVS is the issue".... at which point I will have more than enough to document they are very well aware of the issue, and very well aware they are screwing people over and don't care. Maybe at that time there will be an actual recall or a solution to fix this. But I doubt it.
just curious I’m here in Toronto and after reading this and seeing my mileage at close to 80,000 I think it would be prudent to replace the front oil separators before I take a trip down the road of getting the rms done due to their failure ..
any idea on the labour rate for just this ? I asked my dealer in the west end and they’re clueless as for a quote on the labour . Doesn’t seem too difficult
as they say an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure
mine took just shy of 30 labor hrs at mb Thornhill … at $180 per hr.
Mine was on a 2019 G63 at about 32,000 miles. Ive put about 5-6000 miles on it since, and no oil leaking that i'm aware of.
The good news is for my situation at least... the RMS was covered under my aftermarket 3rd party warranty. When them, and MB told me to F off to get the vapor separators changed out under warranty I opted to not have the OVS changed because they wanted me to pay 6,000.000 for that. RMS covered under warranty...
The other good news for me is that since 3rd party warranty paid for the repair, I have a 2 year unlimited mile warranty on the RMS. So if it blows out again? No problem, I'll bring it right back in to have them change it again for free. I will not pay for the OVS to be swapped. MB can eat it, or deal with paying the dealer to continue to change it every 23 months.
When I barked that they should be replacing the OVS also, they told me it was anecdotal, and that emissions items are not covered under the 8 yr 80k mile warranty anyway. 3rd party warranty also does not cover emissions items. which the OVS is considered emissions. they are 1 of 3-4 parts NOT covered under the 8yr 80k emissions warranty (convenient isnt it?)... So when I go back and say to fix the RMS again for free, and they tell me I have to pay because I declined the OVS replacement? I'll say..., "sorry bud, you guys told me it was anecdotal, show me where it's proven the OVS is the cause.... SHOW ME THE DOCUMENT from MB USA stating the OVS is the issue".... at which point I will have more than enough to document they are very well aware of the issue, and very well aware they are screwing people over and don't care. Maybe at that time there will be an actual recall or a solution to fix this. But I doubt it.
The document they're asking for is PTSS case 163209.
The document they're asking for is PTSS case 163209.
Yes this is a hypothetical situation they have not asked for anything. It's been fixed and is fine for now.
However.... when I first approached and told them of the issue they played stupid and said "theres no way to know if it's an OVS issue causing the RMS leak, it's anecdotal"
So they most certainly didn't show me the document then... Im basically saying, when the RMS blows out again, which it will, because I declined the OVS replacement, ill tell them they need to prove me declining the OVS did not cause the RMS leak, so they can fix under warranty again. Because I'll tell them the same thing they told me when I tried to get them to cover the OVS replacement, and that is, "it's anecdotal , no way to prove it was the OVS right? thats what you told me a year ago when you wouldn't replace the OVS then, so me declining it does not mean that caused the RMS to blow again". They have 2 yr unlimited mile warranty on customer pay, or 3rd party warranty claim repairs. So hopefully the RMS blows out again, and they can replace again for free.
I just anticipate a fight if that happens, where they tell me the RMS is now not covered because I declined the OVS replacement the first time. So just being prepared.
I'll add, if the dealer doesnt produce the document, it doesn't exist to me. Meaning, the document sourced here is all fine and dandy, but they need to produce it and show it to me. I wont do their job for them to search for service bulletins etc. If they want to claim this is the cause then thats their responsibility to produce the proof. Not mine.
30 hours is just crazy to me, MB needs to make this right for everyone that has this engine. They should be extending the warranty on RMS
30 hours does seem quite extreme. My 2019 G63 (just RMS replacement labor) was 10.8 hours labor (which is what they billed my 3rd party warranty company, and is what the MB manual tells them also) the dealer tried to charge me 15.2 hours labor, and the warranty company declined it unless they could show that was the proper time needed. Which they couldn't do. So they then tried to get me to pay the extra 4.4 hours out of pocket, which I said "not a chance", and so they ate the 4.4 hours, which was just extra labor padding the pocket of the dealership, at 225.00 an hour at north scottsdale MB. Parts and disposal etc, was maybe 2-400.00. plus the labor.
But depending on the vehicle it could be quite different.
I dont know the hours on the OVS, since I declined it.
Guys, update here. I posted months ago. Have a 2018 edition one and spung the rms oil leak first month. Yes, I believe I got hosed despite having it checked out by indy shop first. Anyways, I finally paid to fix it.
Cost was $7,500 at indy shop. Had to really work to find a legit shop who would take on the job. No one wanted it. They said it was quite tough on the oil separators. They 100% confirmed oli separators clogged and that led to rms blown. Mb redesigning the parts says it all!
They also confirmed newly redesigned rear seal. Pics below.
This shop guaranteed the work for 3 years.
I also had CC brake pads replaced. Rotors only 20% worn at 47k. Dang those pads are pricey!
$10k was the total. Praying this holds. Tranny out Obvious oil stain New design What comes off to get to tranny The leaky seal
I have the leak currently being fixed right at the mb dealer
under extended warranty.
mine is a 2018 e63s 80k km canadian car
also had the 2020 gt63 checked no issues there.
will update when I get the invoice.
I have the leak currently being fixed right at the mb dealer
under extended warranty.
mine is a 2018 e63s 80k km canadian car
also had the 2020 gt63 checked no issues there.
will update when I get the invoice.
12-16-2023, 02:48 PM
