bobblehead

you should have that vehicle inspected fully first. If you know this is a potential issue and still want the vehicle, then budget this cost into future repairs (if it does happen). In this way, you are not caught off guard per se.

rdj1947

As I stated, the M177 RMS leaks reported by our forum members appear "around" the 40,000 mile mark as it did my 2019 E63S. It's NOT a RMS problem BUT rather the two oil separators that CLOG UP over time thus causing excessive back pressure in the crankcase. These cars are "generally" driven a LOWER number of miles per year than the average of 15,000 miles per year in the US so many probably just haven't leaked yet due to the lower miles driven per year I suspect. A CPO Warranty is for ONE year AFTER the factory 4/50 expires...

imack

I would call this answer anecdotal at best. Short of someone tearing them down before and after such a tune-up, there is really no way to verify that this will prevent the separators from clogging. I would go so far as to say this is wishful thinking.

But an enjoyable exercise nonetheless.

wildta

Just a small correction, you probably meant after the factory 4yrs, 50k miles warranty.

HBerman

All of these "potential failures" are just speculation. You might as well use an Ouija board to predict an upcoming incident. One thing is for certain, if Mercedes believed that numerous failures could occur under warranty timeframes, a TSB would be issued to address the oil separators to prevent the potential of RMS failures. However, the M177 engine has been in production for over 8 years with the same oil separator design without significant changes. Changing out those parts is far less expensive than changing out the RMS. If one still believes that there could be a potential failure, then an elective course of action is to replace the parts preemptively. Mercedes will not cover the labor nor the parts unless it can be proven to cause the car to fail emissions tests. Some people have driven their vehicles for over 130,000 KM without any RMS failures. Net, if you have a current RMS leakage, then replacement of the affected parts is required. Maybe you can convince Mercedes that they have a faulty design and that the repairs should be covered, but I think that there would need to be a significant number of failures in the vehicle population before that would happen.

rdj1947

The POINT here is that the known failures within our forum is that all appear OVER the 4 year mark and BELOW the 50,000 mile factory warranty mark. Losing a RMS in a high performance $125,000-$250,000 automobile with a HAND BUILT engine during the first 40,000-50,000 miles IS NOT ACCEPTABLE at least TO ME! A $9000-$10,000 REPAIR 90+% LABOR. Someone EXPLAIN to me how you obtain access to the OIL SEPARATORS to inspect/clean out W/O dropping the engine or spending more hours REMOVING the entire front of the automobile?

HBerman

I can understand your frustration. However, this forum is only a small sample of the E63S world and an even smaller sample of the RMS failures. These are high-performance cars and there are consequences of ownership as a result. Should the failures occur in 4 years? Probably not, but there are always exceptions. I don't believe that you have to drop the engine to replace the oil separators.

whoover

My repair order specifies that the RMS failure was determined to be caused by the oil separators per PTSS case 163209. A Product Technical Support System case is not a TSB, but it's official documentation of the issue. This shop foreman is either not being truthful or is not very informed.

HBerman

A PTSS is unique to a single VIN. A TSB is across a range of VIN numbers and is distributed through the service network.

chassis

You are spot on. Ignore brand apologists. There is no way to access the vapor separators without significant disassembly because they are buried under and behind other components. It’s a bad design. Like many bad designs MB has put on the market. This is simply one of the recent examples.

whoover

The tech noted: "Proceeded to check for PTSS case regarding concern, found 000163209 case regarding concern. Recommended to replace rear main seal and replace both oil separators with new units."

I don't see how this applies to a single VIN.

PeterUbers

The technician use this unique PTSS case to make a singular determination by himself to recommend a certain line of repairs.

The technical service bulletin is Germany, telling all technicians that this particular issue affects this range of vehicle identification numbers, and therefore incurs the recommended appropriate repair measures. This may be forthcoming when Benz gets their head outta their *****.

rdj1947

After ALL THIS M177 RMS/OIL SEPARATOR discussion AND inadequate MB response, I contacted the EPA concerning the OIL SEPARATORS NOT BEING WARRANTY covered under the Federally mandated EMISSIONS COMPONENTS 8yr/80,000miles requirements. Rather than spewing crankcase oil ladened vapors into the atmosphere like the "old days" we just clog up the oil separators (THAT YOU CANNOT GET TO IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN) and now LEAK the oil out on the highway as we drive! I have been assigned a CASE NUMBER and manager at the EPA. YOU OTHER M117 RMS/OIL SEPARATOR victims may want to file as well?? Channel 11 Alive Consumer Affairs in Atlanta, Georgia is next on my list. They LOVE getting stories like this especially when the US Headquarters are located here.

rdj1947

The EPA confirmed that currently the 8 year 80,000 miles mandated by the Federal government pertain to ONLY the ECU and other electronic modules that monitor emissions. Does anyone know how to access email addresses within the AMG organization? Specifically Michael Schiebe, the new CEO appointed to lead AMG away from the internal combustion engine to a totally electrified AMG...Sounds AWFUL doesn't it? No more of the BEST V8 exhaust note in the world!

chassis

So all the electronic modules and sensors can function correctly, and actuators and other hardware in the system can fail allowing pollution, and it's OK with the EPA?

rdj1947

Yep...I explained to them that when the oil separators clog and not function as intended the crankcase back pressure pushes the oil through the rear main seal. The oil vapor is captured BUT blows out the other end😉 I can't understand why someone in a management position at the AMG engine production facility in Affalterbach CAN'T BE REACHED!?

HBerman

You possibly received an invitation to the AMG lounge forum when you purchased your vehicle which you can always join if you have an AMG car. The forum is monitored by AMG personnel and i have found it a good source of information. You might give it a try.

AMG Private Lounge – Groups and benefits (mercedes-amg.com)

Sprky90

My e63s 2018 is leaking 45 k miles . I can’t find any rear main seal that’s not discontinued. How did you find out this info you are sharing ?

bobblehead

My dealer told me the root cause for this ... excessive crankcase pressure.

rdj1947

It's ALL OVER this forum as well as the AMG Private Lounge and AMG Owners Facebook page with 29,000 followers. MB OBVIOUSLY is aware of the issue and "corporate" has decided to IGNORE it. NO recall and NO bulletin from Affalterbach or Stuttgart as they are VERY BUSY investing in the electrification of all their cars😉

rdj1947

I found my solution to this issue that is PLAGUING 2018/2019 E63S's! I SOLD mine and will NEVER EVER purchase another MB product. Their customer "loyalty" provided me after purchasing 16 MB/AMG automobiles over FORTY THREE YEARS was to offer 10% off the $9300.00 estimate...Signing off forever😉

I.T. Guy

W211 Head bolts
W212 CPS Sensors, Rods, Cylinder Scoring
W213 Oil Separators, RMS

I’ll take #3 all day!
Progress!