When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Need help identifying vendor for these counterfeit wheels
I mentioned in another post my complete joy in discovering the very low mileage 2018 E63s wagon I bought earlier this year at a very low mileage price had counterfeit wheels. I use "counterfeit" with intent (and malice). These aren't replica or imitation wheels. They're marked like Mercedes OEM parts if you don't know how the real wheels are marked. I have higher rez photos, but I had to compress to get under the 20 MB website limit. "Print" rez was 24 MB and Print was 9 MB, so I lost some extra detail.
How do I know the wheels are counterfeit?
1. First clue: The center hub that holds the hub plate on is oversized. The OEM socket isn't close to being big enough. The backside of the hub plate has "Made in TW" on it (see photo directly below). At first, I thought a prior owner just wanted a bigger Mercedes star... you know, a "trivial" aftermarket switch.
2. The genuine Mercedes center hub/plate doesn't fit on these wheels. Not even close.
3. The Mercedes dealer service tech said they weren't real. He showed me real wheels and the markings on the back are completely different. I have total faith in the service tech. Huge dealership and he was "the man" for all things wheel.
4. The quality of the front of the counterfeit wheels is very very good. The wheels are like new. The quality of the backside of the spokes is uneven and there are noticeable differences in the backside surface finish/coating and the descriptive markings.
In the attached, I included:
front and backside photos (1st column), and then
the spokes starting at the bottom (by valve) and going counterclockwise (2nd column + 2 photos at bottom of 3rd column),
some markings on the outside of the barrel (photo with QC sticker),
the aftermarket TPMS, and
the backside of the hub plate (photo also below) and the logo piece (4th column).
Not every spoke has description. All the writing was oriented the same way so if you rotate the wheel, you can read everything.
I'm assuming the manufacturer of the hub/plate is the same as for the wheel itself. None of the spoke markings indicate who made the wheels, although I don't know what the three (?) characters in spoke photo #8 mean.
The hub plate (photo below) has two Hanzi characters, but I don't read Chinese. Not sure why they would translate "145 mm" in Hanzi. Numbers and metric units are fairly universal.
The correct MB part number for the hub is A000 400 1100 (I checked with a friend that had the same wheel on a W213 pre-facelift wagon), not A222 400 2800 shown in the photo below.
REALLY REALLY HOPING THE W213 COMMUNITY CAN HELP ME FIND THE VENDOR.
P.S. The wagon now has OEM wheels, OEM hub and plate, and OEM TPMS. The cost hurt temporarily. The satisfaction having everything in order is forever.
your wheels have space adjusted /////AMG logo - five slashes before the letters "AMG" - however the spacing between the fake AMG logo and the spokes is greater on your rims than the eBay rims ... I suspect eBay has these rims somewhere
see the eBay wheels - same deal
your cap
ebay cap
as I stated in your first thread on this, it's a nice scam to trade in a car with eBay rims and sell the original for much more cash. Alternatively the first owner may have trashed the first OEM rims and gotten these eBay rims knowing he was dumping the car or didn't care about quality and was a cheapskate; however after further research these may be OEM w222 amg rims, authentic
@PeterUbers Thanks for your thoughts. I'm embarrassed I didn't notice the difference in logos. I will focus there to find the likely vendor (although I still hope some of the other markings will provide a clue.
The part numbers on the counterfeit wheel are wrong:
what's on the counterfeit I chose to photograph: A222 401 4200 (your Google goes to narrower S-class wheels)
I'll start hunting eBay. That one link you sent was hilarious.
BTW, the first owner of my car was someone who had it 4 years and put less than 1,000 miles on it (here in the Bay Area) and sold it back to the original dealer (my local dealer). The second owner is CEO of a big company with quite the Porsche stable (per sales mgr at the Porsche dealer). He had his 6-month old GTSRS on consignment on the floor in Salt Lake City He had somehow bought an S/T allocation from another dealer. I was under the impression he had many other cars and did not drive the cars hard. (My car even has partial PPF.) I'm quite sure he didn't dent all four wheels. The TPMS on the counterfeits are aftermarket; he would have reused the OEM TPMS if the original wheels got damaged. No insurance claim on Carfax, so no one stole all four OEM wheels. Intentional swap scam, I suspect, to put on another of his cars. RTS wheels are top shelf option.
@PeterUbers Thanks for your thoughts. I'm embarrassed I didn't notice the difference in logos. I will focus there to find the likely vendor (although I still hope some of the other markings will provide a clue.
The part numbers on the counterfeit wheel are wrong:
what's on the counterfeit I chose to photograph: A222 401 4200 (your Google goes to narrower S-class wheels)
I'll start hunting eBay. That one link you sent was hilarious.
BTW, the first owner of my car was someone who had it 4 years and put less than 1,000 miles on it (here in the Bay Area) and sold it back to the original dealer (my local dealer). The second owner is CEO of a big company with quite the Porsche stable (per sales mgr at the Porsche dealer). He had his 6-month old GTSRS on consignment on the floor in Salt Lake City He had somehow bought an S/T allocation from another dealer. I was under the impression he had many other cars and did not drive the cars hard. (My car even has partial PPF.) I'm quite sure he didn't dent all four wheels. The TPMS on the counterfeits are aftermarket; he would have reused the OEM TPMS if the original wheels got damaged. No insurance claim on Carfax, so no one stole all four OEM wheels. Intentional swap scam, I suspect, to put on another of his cars. RTS wheels are top shelf option.
the w222 link shows the correct width: 20/9.5, and 4300 seems to indicate satin black
what am I missing? Is it a possibility you have authentic w222 amg rims on your e63? Certainly not by factory doing but by an owner buying these aftermarket for whatever reason?
Last edited by PeterUbers; 08-12-2024 at 10:16 AM.
I've put OEM wheels on the car. There is no uncertainty at all what part # goes on an E63s wagon. The MBUSA link I provided above confirm compatibility (as did the dealer before ordering the new wheels). The spokes are likely common to all cross-spoke counterfeits. I'm not sure how a wheel is "forged" but the common markings on the spokes likely are a clue to the manufacturing process.
I went and looked at and photo'ed all the wheels. The backside of the spokes have the exact same markings (and part #) for the fromt and rear wheels. If you take a photo of the backside of all four wheels, they're identical except for variations from the mfg processed used. They're not MB wheels, which have the part # inscribed manually on the backside of the hub (the MB tech showed me... I inspected the new wheels out of the shipping boxes before they installed them).
Taking @PeterUbers guidance, here is a comparison of the AMG logos. Reminds me of a cheap Rolex knockoff. Isn't even close. The coloring is due to differences in lighting (top was in my garage with no reflections, bottom was under an outside deck with reflection of sky). The edge definition, the rounded corners and the sense of depth are striking. There is also a circular patterning on the counterfeits.
All this said, the counterfeit wheels would make a good second set for snow tires (which I don't need since I'm in California and take the truck to drive to the Sierra). They sure look nice from the front (although zoomed in like below you can see the difference in quality).
I agree that the wheels are wrong for the car, but not "counterfeit." Mercedes does make wheels in Asia, and it's unlikely a knock-off would go to the length of using a correct part number and an MB logo. Maybe someone used them for winter tires? It's good you got them off, but "wrong" and "counterfeit" are different things.
here is a hub from an authentic a2224014200 w222 amg rim, indeed it has engraving like you said:
your fake wheels:
also, on the authentic rims look how smooth the inside of the spoke is ...compared to the rough texture of your fake rim
what type of tires came off these fake wheels - winter, all season, summer tires?
i will say that if these really are counterfeit amg w222 rims they are fairly well done:
- amg slashes are getting thinner towards the AMG letters
- spokes inside are fully indented and have appropriate raised information
- Mercedes symbol on inside of spokes
- center cap isn't blank on inside it has lettering
Last edited by PeterUbers; 08-12-2024 at 08:18 PM.
@PeterUbers@whoover Thanks for continuing to add your thoughts. I really appreciate it.
Whoover: I agree that the wheels are wrong for the car, but not "counterfeit." Mercedes does make wheels in Asia, and it's unlikely a knock-off would go to the length of using a correct part number and an MB logo. Maybe someone used them for winter tires? It's good you got them off, but "wrong" and "counterfeit" are different things. SerottaD: I use the word "counterfeit" because I believe the markings are fraudulently embossed on the parts. This includes "Mercedes Benz," the MB star, and the "JW" (approximately) that is at one o'clock on your photo of the backside of the hub of an A222 401 4200 wheel. These aren't replica wheels clearly marked with the replica manufacturer (and not the OEM). The quality of the logo and the backside of the spokes is noticeably poor. I'm a past mfg engineer (Apple) and have mucked about in Asia for years. Doesn't make me an authority on wheels, but I'm not trolling from the cheap seats either.
(By chance, did you really have a wheel sitting around or did you find the photo somewhere?)
PeterUbers: here is a hub from an authentic a2224014200 w222 amg rim, indeed it has engraving like you said SerottaD: This gave me a jolt, but then I realized the mfr of my fake wheels copied the Made in TW and the JW logo... Curiously, the "JW" logo only shows on the wheel spoke, the Made in TW only shows on the backside of the fake hub plate. The fake hub plate only has the MB star. (The fake hub plate part number doesn't match the hub plate for the E63s wagon.)
PeterUbers: your fake wheels:
SerottaD: Minor item... Note that the "Pro Cal" etc in the middle of the picture of my fake hub plate is the bottom of a black flower pot I used. It's not actually on the backside of the hub. I needed to lift the wheel up so the camera would focus on the wheel and not the background.
PeterUbers: also, on the authentic rims look how smooth the inside of the spoke is ...compared to the rough texture of your fake rim
SerottaD: Yeah. Dead giveaway of non-OEM manufacture. Cut corners anywhere quality isn't visible from the outside.
PeterUbers: what type of tires came off these fake wheels - winter, all season, summer tires? SerottaD: The original OEM Michelin tires where on the car, exactly as you'd expect from a 9,000 mile example. I forget the week codes, but they were year 17 and I think 31 and 33 weeks... or 33 and 35. I think Michelin only makes these tires once a year. In other words, everything was exactly as you'd expect from a pristine, low-mileage car.
The canary in the coal mine was me finding the hub socket in the back storage and discovering the socket was waaaay too small for the hubs on the car. I was so naive. I went into the dealer expecting to buy a different socket for the "obvious" big-hub option someone had put on the car. The wheels looked so good from the front side, everyone was fooled (but also, I was in denial because the provenance of the car didn't match the scheming needed to pull off the ol' switcheroo).
But now I have OEM everything plus a new set of tires. I do want to find the mfr and get at least some satisfaction on the car's history.
P.S. The rear and the front wheels have the SAME part # on the same spoke. Craziness.
@PeterUbers@whoover
Check out this related post. Near the top is a very detailed AMG logo that does not look like what is on my confirmed OEM wheels. Did the logo change? This post is from 2017. The general consensus in this other post was that the wheels were genuine. https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w...ke-wheels.html
PeterUbers: looking at my counterfeit wheels, I'm now thinking they are cast and then polished on the outside (but not the inside). I'm going to try to learn how forged wheels are made.
Do you OR ANYONE ELSE READING THIS have a detailed picture of the AMG logo on your wheels? Please post. Let us know about what year the wheels are (the year of your car if original equipment)
08-11-2024, 10:17 PM
Need help identifying vendor for these counterfeit wheels
