Just how rare is the 3D premium sound and retrofit ability?
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From: Wisconsin
2017 Mercedes E43 AMG, 2007 Lexus LS460 L, 2004 Lexus LS430
Just how rare is the 3D premium sound and retrofit ability?
So I hit a deer with my beloved Lexus LS 460 F Sport and insurance totaled it out. After owning three Lexi in a row, I think I'm going to give Mercedes a try. I've pretty much narrowed it down to the E43 AMG.
Unfortunately, in the last couple weeks since I started searching, I've only seen one that has the premium 3D sound option. I've looked on several sites and through dozens of cars. Is it really that rare?
I read that you cannot retrofit it. Is that true? Is it a matter of the harness being different? Is it a software issue?
Unfortunately, in the last couple weeks since I started searching, I've only seen one that has the premium 3D sound option. I've looked on several sites and through dozens of cars. Is it really that rare?
I read that you cannot retrofit it. Is that true? Is it a matter of the harness being different? Is it a software issue?
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Joined: Mar 2006
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From: San Jose area
'19 E63S sedan
So I hit a deer with my beloved Lexus LS 460 F Sport and insurance totaled it out. After owning three Lexi in a row, I think I'm going to give Mercedes a try. I've pretty much narrowed it down to the E43 AMG.
Unfortunately, in the last couple weeks since I started searching, I've only seen one that has the premium 3D sound option. I've looked on several sites and through dozens of cars. Is it really that rare?
I read that you cannot retrofit it. Is that true? Is it a matter of the harness being different? Is it a software issue?
Unfortunately, in the last couple weeks since I started searching, I've only seen one that has the premium 3D sound option. I've looked on several sites and through dozens of cars. Is it really that rare?
I read that you cannot retrofit it. Is that true? Is it a matter of the harness being different? Is it a software issue?
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2024
Posts: 67
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From: Wisconsin
2017 Mercedes E43 AMG, 2007 Lexus LS460 L, 2004 Lexus LS430
Ugh. I really want the 3d audio but I really need to find a new ride before mid December. I fear I may have to give up on this option. Hopefully something pops up in the next month...
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,760
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From: Seattle
'19 E63S, ‘16 CLS63 RIP, '09 E63 Gone, '06 M5 Gone, '97 Supra TT Gone
I have to believe it would be massively difficult to retrofit. It's rare, only comes on Sedans, and only a few of us chosen ones have it. It was and still is my drop-dead must-have option on an E63S. I've built full Focal sound systems in previous cars. This is by far the best, cleanest, most powerful system I've ever had that wasn't aftermarket and insanely priced.
Wait for one and ****** it up.
Wait for one and ****** it up.
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Joined: Mar 2006
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From: San Jose area
'19 E63S sedan
I have to believe it would be massively difficult to retrofit. It's rare, only comes on Sedans, and only a few of us chosen ones have it. It was and still is my drop-dead must-have option on an E63S. I've built full Focal sound systems in previous cars. This is by far the best, cleanest, most powerful system I've ever had that wasn't aftermarket and insanely priced.
Wait for one and ****** it up.
Wait for one and ****** it up.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2024
Posts: 67
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From: Wisconsin
2017 Mercedes E43 AMG, 2007 Lexus LS460 L, 2004 Lexus LS430
I don't take it anyone has an idea how the normal premium sound sounds compared to the Mark Levinson system in a facelifted Lexus LS 460? If I absolutely have to settle for the normal system, I would hope it sounds comparable or even better than what I am replacing.
Also, from what I understand, other than the additional speakers that come with the 3D system, the rest of the drivers remain the same, is that correct? The 3D amp sends more power to the existing drivers, correct?
I'm just wondering How much headroom the premium sound drivers have for an aftermarket amp upgrade....
Also, from what I understand, other than the additional speakers that come with the 3D system, the rest of the drivers remain the same, is that correct? The 3D amp sends more power to the existing drivers, correct?
I'm just wondering How much headroom the premium sound drivers have for an aftermarket amp upgrade....
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From: Pacific Northwest
2001 S600 V12 Sold, 2011 Jaguar XFR Sold, 2017 S550 4-Matic, 2018 S63 AMG Sedan
More power but more importantly more speakers, that's why the upgraded system sounds better. I can't offer an opinion on a direct comparison with the Levinson system. Interesting that you're coming from an LS460 but considering an E43. Sound like you don't "need" the extra space of a larger car like a comparable S-class??
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2014 S63 2010 ML350 Bluetec 2009 SL550
I can help you here - pm me if you wanna go deep. 2012 LS460 in the driveway with the Levinson system and always a full changer of DVD Audios. 2014 S63 in the garage with the Burmester 3D system. Both are excellent but very different .
Retired semi pro musician here and huge audiophile as well. Can answer any questions you may have.
Retired semi pro musician here and huge audiophile as well. Can answer any questions you may have.
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Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2024
Posts: 67
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From: Wisconsin
2017 Mercedes E43 AMG, 2007 Lexus LS460 L, 2004 Lexus LS430
More power but more importantly more speakers, that's why the upgraded system sounds better. I can't offer an opinion on a direct comparison with the Levinson system. Interesting that you're coming from an LS460 but considering an E43. Sound like you don't "need" the extra space of a larger car like a comparable S-class??
As much as I would like to find another one, I think I just want something a bit different now. Something a little more engaging in the corners. I wouldn't mind an s-class at some point but right now, it's time to switch things up a bit.
Also, I'm coming from Lexus reliability. I'm a bit nervous but I know the M276 is relatively reliable. I view this as a good Mercedes to dip my toe into the water.
I can help you here - pm me if you wanna go deep. 2012 LS460 in the driveway with the Levinson system and always a full changer of DVD Audios. 2014 S63 in the garage with the Burmester 3D system. Both are excellent but very different .
Retired semi pro musician here and huge audiophile as well. Can answer any questions you may have.
Retired semi pro musician here and huge audiophile as well. Can answer any questions you may have.
How do you feel the two compare?
Last edited by Nyaa; Oct 28, 2024 at 08:52 PM.
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2014 S63 2010 ML350 Bluetec 2009 SL550
Both systems are on the upper end of the factory car stereo ladder. The Lexus/Levinson system has the advantage of being able to play DVD-Audio discs which are 5-channel hi-def sound. Nothing you can stream will be even close to that so right off the bat there's a huge advantage. But the musical selection is limited and expensive so most of the time you might be streaming from a phone. In that case the Benz/Burmester might have a slight advantage since (depending on year) you might be able to support the newer Bluetooth specs.
The 3D system is also voiced differently than the Levinson is with the 3D being more-mid-focused and the Levinson being flatter/more neutral. Both have great bass with the edge going to the 3D as it has both front and rear subs.
I like the Levinson system more for jazz and the Burmester 3D more for rock and modern music. Either is probably more capable than most people will ever need :-)
The 3D system is also voiced differently than the Levinson is with the 3D being more-mid-focused and the Levinson being flatter/more neutral. Both have great bass with the edge going to the 3D as it has both front and rear subs.
I like the Levinson system more for jazz and the Burmester 3D more for rock and modern music. Either is probably more capable than most people will ever need :-)
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From: IL
19 E63s, 23 M3 compX, B9 SQ5
The Burmeister high end 3D system in these cars is by far the best factory sound system I have ever heard in any car. It is absolutely a must have feature if you are an audiophile.
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From: USA
2018 E63S Wagon, 2017 Z51 Corvette
I have a Mercedes and my wife has a Lexus. Both have been dealer maintained. The Lexus is in another class as far as reliability and the service experience. When my extended on the E63S expires the E63S will never sit in the dealer's service bay again. If Lexus has a equivalent to my wagon I'd trade it tomorrow (well, today actually). Of course, if my MB dealer wasn't so f'd up in their service dept I might rate the MB closer to the Lexus.
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From: IL
19 E63s, 23 M3 compX, B9 SQ5
I have a Mercedes and my wife has a Lexus. Both have been dealer maintained. The Lexus is in another class as far as reliability and the service experience. When my extended on the E63S expires the E63S will never sit in the dealer's service bay again. If Lexus has a equivalent to my wagon I'd trade it tomorrow (well, today actually). Of course, if my MB dealer wasn't so f'd up in their service dept I might rate the MB closer to the Lexus.
Last edited by raudiace4; Oct 29, 2024 at 11:58 AM.
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2018 AMG E63s Ed1
After all the physical, the software also needs to be enabled which allows for the 3d audio otherwise it is just the Burmeister audio...
In the end, a DSP would do wonders in any car to take care of reflections and cancelations that take place in the car interior.
Also of note: Unlike DTS X... the 3d audio does NOT treat audio as an object so it cannot do much except what the "3d" is programmed to do and nothing else.
In the end, a DSP would do wonders in any car to take care of reflections and cancelations that take place in the car interior.
Also of note: Unlike DTS X... the 3d audio does NOT treat audio as an object so it cannot do much except what the "3d" is programmed to do and nothing else.
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From: Laguna Niguel
'94 SL600,'05 SL600,'06 S65,'07 E63,'14 E63S,'09SL600 all sold, ‘15 S65,‘18 E63S,'17 SL65, '17S65Cab
I do not have experience and qualifications anywhere near what TripleDown has. What I do have is a 2015 S65 with the Sennheiser 3D system and a 2018 E63S with the 3D system. The S65 sounds much better than the "same" system in the E63s. I believe the reasons for this are the cabin volume is larger in the S class, The S65 has a more "live" environment since all the cabin surfaces are leather, where in the E63S many surfaces like the headliner are fabric.The S65 has more speakers and they are placed slightly different, the subwoofer has more punch and clarity. If the comparison is a top end Lexus I doubt the E with a 3D system will measure up, the S class will. I like the fact that the Sennheiser 3D system will play .WAV files. I had many of my CD's transferred to USB's and SD cards in .WAV format. These are very large files but are an exact bit by bit copy of the CD. The Bang and Olufsen system in my SL65 will not play .WAV files so I had to have a set of MP3's made for it. With the top down it does not matter.
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Joined: Mar 2006
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From: San Jose area
'19 E63S sedan
I don't take it anyone has an idea how the normal premium sound sounds compared to the Mark Levinson system in a facelifted Lexus LS 460? If I absolutely have to settle for the normal system, I would hope it sounds comparable or even better than what I am replacing.
Also, from what I understand, other than the additional speakers that come with the 3D system, the rest of the drivers remain the same, is that correct? The 3D amp sends more power to the existing drivers, correct?
I'm just wondering How much headroom the premium sound drivers have for an aftermarket amp upgrade....
Also, from what I understand, other than the additional speakers that come with the 3D system, the rest of the drivers remain the same, is that correct? The 3D amp sends more power to the existing drivers, correct?
I'm just wondering How much headroom the premium sound drivers have for an aftermarket amp upgrade....
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,825
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From: Pacific Northwest
2001 S600 V12 Sold, 2011 Jaguar XFR Sold, 2017 S550 4-Matic, 2018 S63 AMG Sedan
I do not have experience and qualifications anywhere near what TripleDown has. What I do have is a 2015 S65 with the Sennheiser 3D system and a 2018 E63S with the 3D system. The S65 sounds much better than the "same" system in the E63s. I believe the reasons for this are the cabin volume is larger in the S class, The S65 has a more "live" environment since all the cabin surfaces are leather, where in the E63S many surfaces like the headliner are fabric.The S65 has more speakers and they are placed slightly different, the subwoofer has more punch and clarity. If the comparison is a top end Lexus I doubt the E with a 3D system will measure up, the S class will. I like the fact that the Sennheiser 3D system will play .WAV files. I had many of my CD's transferred to USB's and SD cards in .WAV format. These are very large files but are an exact bit by bit copy of the CD. The Bang and Olufsen system in my SL65 will not play .WAV files so I had to have a set of MP3's made for it. With the top down it does not matter.
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From: Newcastle, WA
2019 S63 4Matic+, 2018 E400 Cabrio, wardens car.
The base Burmester is OK, the 3D HE version is better, but the best solution is the one I had in my last S550. My last S550 W222 had the base Burmester but I upgraded it with an aftermarket setup. Started with a NAV-TV fiber optic converter and converted the fiber optic cable going to the factory amp to a flat toslink signal. This fed 2 JL Audio VX-i series amps, an 8 channel 800W version for the mids and tweets and a 1000W single channel amp driving a single JL-Audio W7 10" sub in a custom sealed enclosure. Utilized all other factory speakers for the mids and highs. This system was sonically superb to the 3D version and hit like a jackhammer. I spent around 4K on the gear and did most of the install myself. The only thing you could see was the sub in the back of the trunk. You are always better off upgrading the amps and signal processing vs the speakers. The base Burmester system sounded way better with the JL gear than the 3D HE system even though the 3D system has a ton of speakers. The other downside to the 3D system is that it is very hard to upgrade from it to add say a bigger sub and sub amp. I kept all the gear and reverted back to factory when I sold the S550 and was going to install the sub and sub amp in my new S63 but the 3D HE system has so many nannies and ANC mics that it is pretty much a closed loop system. I did install the sub and amp in the car but ripped it all out as I could never get the ANC to behave.
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From: Laguna Niguel
'94 SL600,'05 SL600,'06 S65,'07 E63,'14 E63S,'09SL600 all sold, ‘15 S65,‘18 E63S,'17 SL65, '17S65Cab
Carlosinseattle, I apologize for typing Sennheiser, I meant Burmester! Thanks for catching that error. Both the Burmester 3D and the rear seat entertainment system were standard equipment on the 2015 S65 and optional on other S class vehicles.
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From: Oakland
2018 E43 | 2017 GLS450 | 2004 CLK 500
Curious if anyone knows if the 3D subwoofer and amp can be integrated into a base system using a signal processor, as opposed to a sub box taking up space or a custom enclosure in the “spare tire” space.
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From: Oakland
2018 E43 | 2017 GLS450 | 2004 CLK 500
Thank you for the info. Sourcing and swapping out body fittings would be something I could deal with but the wiring harness puts it well beyond my skill level.
Ugh. I really want the 3d audio but I really need to find a new ride before mid December. I fear I may have to give up on this option. Hopefully something pops up in the next month...
Ugh. I really want the 3d audio but I really need to find a new ride before mid December. I fear I may have to give up on this option. Hopefully something pops up in the next month...
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2024
Posts: 67
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From: Wisconsin
2017 Mercedes E43 AMG, 2007 Lexus LS460 L, 2004 Lexus LS430
Both systems are on the upper end of the factory car stereo ladder. The Lexus/Levinson system has the advantage of being able to play DVD-Audio discs which are 5-channel hi-def sound. Nothing you can stream will be even close to that so right off the bat there's a huge advantage. But the musical selection is limited and expensive so most of the time you might be streaming from a phone. In that case the Benz/Burmester might have a slight advantage since (depending on year) you might be able to support the newer Bluetooth specs.
The 3D system is also voiced differently than the Levinson is with the 3D being more-mid-focused and the Levinson being flatter/more neutral. Both have great bass with the edge going to the 3D as it has both front and rear subs.
I like the Levinson system more for jazz and the Burmester 3D more for rock and modern music. Either is probably more capable than most people will ever need :-)
The 3D system is also voiced differently than the Levinson is with the 3D being more-mid-focused and the Levinson being flatter/more neutral. Both have great bass with the edge going to the 3D as it has both front and rear subs.
I like the Levinson system more for jazz and the Burmester 3D more for rock and modern music. Either is probably more capable than most people will ever need :-)
I only really use BT when I'm hopping in and out of the car a lot around town. Otherwise, I plug the phone in. I've been meaning to pick up a good USB-C DAC to help with quality...
The base Burmester is OK, the 3D HE version is better, but the best solution is the one I had in my last S550. My last S550 W222 had the base Burmester but I upgraded it with an aftermarket setup. Started with a NAV-TV fiber optic converter and converted the fiber optic cable going to the factory amp to a flat toslink signal. This fed 2 JL Audio VX-i series amps, an 8 channel 800W version for the mids and tweets and a 1000W single channel amp driving a single JL-Audio W7 10" sub in a custom sealed enclosure. Utilized all other factory speakers for the mids and highs. This system was sonically superb to the 3D version and hit like a jackhammer. I spent around 4K on the gear and did most of the install myself. The only thing you could see was the sub in the back of the trunk. You are always better off upgrading the amps and signal processing vs the speakers. The base Burmester system sounded way better with the JL gear than the 3D HE system even though the 3D system has a ton of speakers. The other downside to the 3D system is that it is very hard to upgrade from it to add say a bigger sub and sub amp. I kept all the gear and reverted back to factory when I sold the S550 and was going to install the sub and sub amp in my new S63 but the 3D HE system has so many nannies and ANC mics that it is pretty much a closed loop system. I did install the sub and amp in the car but ripped it all out as I could never get the ANC to behave.
I'm not about to drop 4k into the audio but given what you are telling me, I think I could at least improve the base system. I've already found a car with the base system. I'm working on getting a PPI scheduled. I feel much better about it not having the 3d system now.
I'm no audio install expert but I did put install a sub and amp in my LS460 F Sport using a powered LOC. So I think with enough research I could do something a bit more advanced. I might hit you up at some point with some questions if you don't mind.
Last edited by Nyaa; Oct 31, 2024 at 07:44 PM.
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From: Newcastle, WA
2019 S63 4Matic+, 2018 E400 Cabrio, wardens car.
Very interesting take. Thank you for sharing.
I only really use BT when I'm hopping in and out of the car a lot around town. Otherwise, I plug the phone in. I've been meaning to pick up a good USB-C DAC to help with quality...
So basically, if you don't want to touch anything, 3D is best. If you are willing to modify the system, it's best to go with the base system as modifications are easier?
I'm not about to drop 4k into the audio but given what you are telling me, I think I could at least improve the base system. I've already found a car with the base system. I'm working on getting a PPI scheduled. I feel much better about it not having the 3d system now.
I'm no audio install expert but I did put install a sub and amp in my LS460 F Sport using a powered LOC. So I think with enough research I could do something a bit more advanced. I might hit you up at some point with some questions if you don't mind.
I only really use BT when I'm hopping in and out of the car a lot around town. Otherwise, I plug the phone in. I've been meaning to pick up a good USB-C DAC to help with quality...
So basically, if you don't want to touch anything, 3D is best. If you are willing to modify the system, it's best to go with the base system as modifications are easier?
I'm not about to drop 4k into the audio but given what you are telling me, I think I could at least improve the base system. I've already found a car with the base system. I'm working on getting a PPI scheduled. I feel much better about it not having the 3d system now.
I'm no audio install expert but I did put install a sub and amp in my LS460 F Sport using a powered LOC. So I think with enough research I could do something a bit more advanced. I might hit you up at some point with some questions if you don't mind.
