MB_Fahrer

Hello,

My father and I are wanting to build a replica 190E DTM car. Is this possible? I want it too copy this car: http://static.autoblog.nl/images/wp2...ion-ii_dtm.jpg

From what I've read it seems possible, get a 190E 2.3-16 and bore it out to 2.5L (with a race tune--high compression, new cams, pistons, etc, etc, etc), get around 320hp and 220tq (the real DTM car specs right?), strip the interior and install a cage, but the parts that worry me are: can we find those wheels? (O.Z. Racing I believe) How about the body kit? (its not just a 190E EvoII body if you look closely) We need a LSD and the Getrag tranny as well. Any thoughts on all of this?

Thanks much!
Rick

AMGC

16Vs come with Getrag trannys and a diff. Fevo Kits never look good. If you wanna go NA id look for a Euro 16V that already has higher compression and convert it to EFI and make a custom large intake plenum.

MB_Fahrer

I'll look into the Euro model, thank you! Not to sound stupid, but what's EFI?

Wolfe190

EFI = electronic fuel injection. All 201's came with CIS-E (continuous injection system, electronically controlled) and it pretty much sucks.

But yes, EFI is definetly the way to go.

MB_Fahrer

Ahh, yes we will definitely do EFI as well as an upgraded intake. I am going to attempt to find/duplicate as many parts from a 190e DTM car as possible. We am not looking to make this as fast as is possible with modern technology, rather we want to make it as period realistic as possible. Who makes the best DTM body kit for these cars?

MB_Fahrer

What do you all think of this one? http://www.raceonusa.com/mercedes-be...01-c-1074_1075 The EVO II bodykit near the bottom of the page. It seems like a good starting place to me?

SL-ML-C

the raceon kits are ok, you should develop a close relationship to a good body shop though, these never fit right out of the box.

AMGC

Please do not destroy another 201 with a Fevo kit. They never look good. They always have too much fender gap no matter what you do, kits are hard to last (seen a Fevo II in person after 2 years after spending 1 year at a paint shop, and kit was stripping off the body), and they just add weight (which you dont want auto-Xing. The DTM cars used EFI not the horrific K-jet system. If you dont know about converting 201s to EFI then you have months of reading and tuning ahead of you.

I would aim for a Euro spec 16V and convert it to EFI and make a custom intake plenum if you have the machines to. That is the best way to get power out of a 16V NA. If you are not capable of making your own plenums, I am going to be selling a few in the spring/summer. Instead of body kit junk spend the money on the suspension.

AMGC

Plus nothing is better looking than a stock 16V bodykit. No cheese, all please.

SL-ML-C

Euro EVO I is far better looking IMO

MB_Fahrer

I am actually going to email AMG in Germany about having them tune out engine for us. We are not going to tune the engine ourselves. We are going to need someone good with building high compression race engines (yes, we are prepared to have the engine rebuilt every 600-1000miles) because I do not want to sit around studying how to convert the car to EFI. I have so many other difficult parts to find. I am looking to make an exact copy of the car I posted the link to. Exact right down to the gauge cluster and the Evo II body. So, we need a decent body kit. Maybe AMG/Mercedes-Benz Classic Car Center has some information as to where to buy a good body kit. We are not auto crossing this car, rather we are looking to use it on the weekends at a local track and then ship the car to Germany and enter in a vintage DTM race (if at all possible).

MB_Fahrer

Do you know of/run into a better manufacturer? I just did a google search.

MB_Fahrer

If anybody knows of a DTM car that is for sale, we are interested in simply purchasing it and refurbishing it to like new standards. Additionally, if there are no DTM cars for sale, then we need to purchase a 190e without a sunroof. How many of those were made and where do we buy one?

AMGC

Yeah dont think he has 100K for an EvoI

AMGC

In the US I doubt there are any real DTM 190s for sale. There is a guy who bought a DTM 190 on the rev with no engine and it was a ****load. And why not tune the engine yourself? or atleast get the basic tune down and take it to get tuned by a good tuning shop AMG is not going to be interested in tuning your car. And to tune your car you will HAVE to go EFI. By tune here we are talking about tuning the EFI ECU. A simple K-jet tune which takes about 2 minutes isnt gonna get you any power. If your not going to go EFI, I would give up any race dreams. If the most important purchase to you is a cheap Fevo kit, then I dont know why you are planning on tracking this car

To prove EVOII kits look like crap no matter how low you go...


Real EvoIIs have a completely different suspension than the regular 190 to not have 3 feet of fender gap.

MB_Fahrer

When I talk about tuning the engine I mean replacement of: cams, pistons, lifters, timing chain, and all other major components. This includes a complete standalone ECU for the car. We are not going to use the stock ECU as we are going to remove all electrical components and then simply re-install what we need. Everything about this car is important to me. We are trying to replicate a certain car and to do that, we need the "Fevo" body kit. We are not going to be running on the stock suspension. Not even the Evo II suspension. I plan on finding out what suspension the DTM cars used and we will install a setup as close to that as possible. As for the fitment of the bodykit, we already are in the process of building a BMW E36 GTR and the fitment of the $20k German built widebody was crap. So we found a very good body shop about 4 hours drive from where we are located and the bodyshop was able to re-manufacture the worst parts of it. So we will simply have them do the same with the 190 as to not have huge gaps. Expensive? yes. Worth it? yes.

AMGC

You can buy forged pistons and con rods off racetep.com

Wolfe190

Maybe you will get lucky with this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Merce...Q5fAccessories

But no matter what you do about the body kit, it probably won't fit perfectly. If you are good with molding, you could make your own fiberglass (or carbon fiber) body pieces. It sounds like you have plenty of money to spend on this project, so that might be a good route to go.

AMGC - what are you talking about 100K for an evoI?


http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/...hp/carno/46651
http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/...hp/carno/65095
(sexy fricken cars btw)

This is the only EVOII I could find... But I don't think it is common for them to sell for this much

http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/...hp/carno/37358

If it were me I'd tune an EVOI anyway. You can see that they are somewhat "easier" to find, and definetly cheaper to buy. The bodykit may not be exactly what you want, but it's a good start

AMGC

I dont even think anyone has imported an EVOI or II yet. And still 30K. And you mention using a standalone ECU... which would involve converting to EFI. Why not just do an AMG 3.6 M104 swap??? It bolts right up to the getrag tranny. And is not gonna need a rebuild every 1000 miles and get you some good power on tap.

Rouven036

there is a german company who is selling evo kits. its team stadler motorsport www.190teile.de check the webshop (english version available) they are also offering efi systems and '89 dtm style slide throttle intake systems.
i did this conversion on my evo1, power output only by slide throttle an efi conversion is increased to 256hp.
basically you can do a lot with the 16valvers, but it costs a lot of money. i'm building a new engine beside to safe the original one. because evo engine parts are f...... expensive so better don't blow up the original one.
if you do a 16valver engine the right ways it can withstand some more rpm (especially the evo engines due to the shorter stroke). for my new engine i gave my rev meter to a company to adjust it for the new motor. here some pics:





evo2 con. rods for the new engine (they are 120g lighter than evo1 rods)



power output after conversion, cams etc. still stock:


stock output, before conversion:


the rev meter:

josephpampliega

The Evo II Kit listed on Ebay is mine listed by my brother. It was manufactured by AeroCraft which was the the highest quality manufacturer of AMG replicas sold by Conversion Techniques and NR Motoring back in the 90s, whenever AMG models went out of production.

It was a project of mine started in the 90s that I never completed and have decided to piece out parts.

The front fenders are one piece bolt ons. The front and rear bumpers are also bolt ons (not overlays). Side skirts are also bolt on. Rear wing mounts on standard holes.

If interested, make a reasonable offer, I paid $4500 back in 1997. I believe it is still complete. I can post pictures, if anyone is serious of purchasing.

Attached are some pictures of the project.

MB_Fahrer

Well, my father says that my 190e just came today... haven't seen it yet but I'll post up some pix as soon as I get a second later on today!

MB_Fahrer

Pix are still on the way guys, what brand brake pads and rotors do you suggest I replace the stock ones with? I plan on throwing it around the local track (high plains raceway) before we rip it into little pieces... Also, if any of you need any parts please feel free to PM me as I will be selling the entire interior as well as most of the rest of the car because we will be replacing almost all of it.

domantas

omg, i cant bilieve it is actualy hapening... Im 100% into making evo2 conversion also. I just registered to this site to give you props for actualy doing this. I heard there are 8 conversions in California. The thing i learned about e190 us models that they are cheap cars in 8v form, and 16v are bit pricey and despite they have 2.3 coswort engines, they dont make a lot of power unless you spend thousands.

What im considering to do is 2jzge single turbo swap and r154 transmission + black evo2 conversion, caged, one seater, fuel cell, switch console, carbon dash, electric gauge cluster, wilwood pedals with boosters. Now, my question is what do we do with shocks and brakes??? Bilstein shocks is just not enough. I have searched and cant find any coilover systems for these cars. Wsp with that? Someone point me to the right direction? Brakes? These are the questions you will have too MB Fahrer, so dont mind me interupting ur thread

MB_Fahrer

Hey!! I'm glad to hear your converting as well! Guess we're in this together eh? Umm well for the suspension I actually just ordered a H&R Cup Suspension (gas shocks i believe) here is the link http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html..._ID=31006-1..1 and I'd be more than happy to let you know what I think about it (I am very picky with my suspensions and I'm going to track the car before I begin my DTM conversion project so I can let you know very soon what the H&R suspension is)

As for the brakes, I am thinking maybe I'm going to get a Stoptech package. Probably with 330-350mm rotors with 6 piston fronts and 4 piston rears. Any thoughts? As for my engine (the car is a 1986 190e 2.3 cossie), we are sending it to a gentleman in California who will give it a mild race tune and we'll be pushing 330hp and 210-220ft lbs of tq when all is said and done.

Rick