190E DTM project
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From: Commierado
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190E DTM project
Hello,
My father and I are wanting to build a replica 190E DTM car. Is this possible? I want it too copy this car: http://static.autoblog.nl/images/wp2...ion-ii_dtm.jpg
From what I've read it seems possible, get a 190E 2.3-16 and bore it out to 2.5L (with a race tune--high compression, new cams, pistons, etc, etc, etc), get around 320hp and 220tq (the real DTM car specs right?), strip the interior and install a cage, but the parts that worry me are: can we find those wheels? (O.Z. Racing I believe) How about the body kit? (its not just a 190E EvoII body if you look closely) We need a LSD and the Getrag tranny as well. Any thoughts on all of this?
Thanks much!
Rick
My father and I are wanting to build a replica 190E DTM car. Is this possible? I want it too copy this car: http://static.autoblog.nl/images/wp2...ion-ii_dtm.jpg
From what I've read it seems possible, get a 190E 2.3-16 and bore it out to 2.5L (with a race tune--high compression, new cams, pistons, etc, etc, etc), get around 320hp and 220tq (the real DTM car specs right?), strip the interior and install a cage, but the parts that worry me are: can we find those wheels? (O.Z. Racing I believe) How about the body kit? (its not just a 190E EvoII body if you look closely) We need a LSD and the Getrag tranny as well. Any thoughts on all of this?
Thanks much!
Rick
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From: MA
Mosselman 190E 16V+ C63S+ Abarth 595
16Vs come with Getrag trannys and a diff. Fevo Kits never look good. If you wanna go NA id look for a Euro 16V that already has higher compression and convert it to EFI and make a custom large intake plenum.
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From: Commierado
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Ahh, yes we will definitely do EFI as well as an upgraded intake. I am going to attempt to find/duplicate as many parts from a 190e DTM car as possible. We am not looking to make this as fast as is possible with modern technology, rather we want to make it as period realistic as possible. Who makes the best DTM body kit for these cars?
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From: Commierado
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What do you all think of this one? http://www.raceonusa.com/mercedes-be...01-c-1074_1075 The EVO II bodykit near the bottom of the page. It seems like a good starting place to me?
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From: MA
Mosselman 190E 16V+ C63S+ Abarth 595
Please do not destroy another 201 with a Fevo kit. They never look good. They always have too much fender gap no matter what you do, kits are hard to last (seen a Fevo II in person after 2 years after spending 1 year at a paint shop, and kit was stripping off the body), and they just add weight (which you dont want auto-Xing. The DTM cars used EFI not the horrific K-jet system. If you dont know about converting 201s to EFI then you have months of reading and tuning ahead of you.
I would aim for a Euro spec 16V and convert it to EFI and make a custom intake plenum if you have the machines to. That is the best way to get power out of a 16V NA. If you are not capable of making your own plenums, I am going to be selling a few in the spring/summer. Instead of body kit junk spend the money on the suspension.
I would aim for a Euro spec 16V and convert it to EFI and make a custom intake plenum if you have the machines to. That is the best way to get power out of a 16V NA. If you are not capable of making your own plenums, I am going to be selling a few in the spring/summer. Instead of body kit junk spend the money on the suspension.
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From: Commierado
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Please do not destroy another 201 with a Fevo kit. They never look good. They always have too much fender gap no matter what you do, kits are hard to last (seen a Fevo II in person after 2 years after spending 1 year at a paint shop, and kit was stripping off the body), and they just add weight (which you dont want auto-Xing. The DTM cars used EFI not the horrific K-jet system. If you dont know about converting 201s to EFI then you have months of reading and tuning ahead of you.
I would aim for a Euro spec 16V and convert it to EFI and make a custom intake plenum if you have the machines to. That is the best way to get power out of a 16V NA. If you are not capable of making your own plenums, I am going to be selling a few in the spring/summer. Instead of body kit junk spend the money on the suspension.
I would aim for a Euro spec 16V and convert it to EFI and make a custom intake plenum if you have the machines to. That is the best way to get power out of a 16V NA. If you are not capable of making your own plenums, I am going to be selling a few in the spring/summer. Instead of body kit junk spend the money on the suspension.
Last edited by MB_Fahrer; Feb 18, 2010 at 03:31 PM.
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From: Commierado
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If anybody knows of a DTM car that is for sale, we are interested in simply purchasing it and refurbishing it to like new standards. Additionally, if there are no DTM cars for sale, then we need to purchase a 190e without a sunroof. How many of those were made and where do we buy one?
Last edited by MB_Fahrer; Feb 18, 2010 at 04:00 PM.
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From: MA
Mosselman 190E 16V+ C63S+ Abarth 595
If anybody knows of a DTM car that is for sale, we are interested in simply purchasing it and refurbishing it to like new standards. Additionally, if there are no DTM cars for sale, then we need to purchase a 190e without a sunroof. How many of those were made and where do we buy one?
AMG is not going to be interested in tuning your car. And to tune your car you will HAVE to go EFI. By tune here we are talking about tuning the EFI ECU. A simple K-jet tune which takes about 2 minutes isnt gonna get you any power. If your not going to go EFI, I would give up any race dreams. If the most important purchase to you is a cheap Fevo kit, then I dont know why you are planning on tracking this car
To prove EVOII kits look like crap no matter how low you go...
Real EvoIIs have a completely different suspension than the regular 190 to not have 3 feet of fender gap.
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When I talk about tuning the engine I mean replacement of: cams, pistons, lifters, timing chain, and all other major components. This includes a complete standalone ECU for the car. We are not going to use the stock ECU as we are going to remove all electrical components and then simply re-install what we need. Everything about this car is important to me. We are trying to replicate a certain car and to do that, we need the "Fevo" body kit. We are not going to be running on the stock suspension. Not even the Evo II suspension. I plan on finding out what suspension the DTM cars used and we will install a setup as close to that as possible. As for the fitment of the bodykit, we already are in the process of building a BMW E36 GTR and the fitment of the $20k German built widebody was crap. So we found a very good body shop about 4 hours drive from where we are located and the bodyshop was able to re-manufacture the worst parts of it. So we will simply have them do the same with the 190 as to not have huge gaps. Expensive? yes. Worth it? yes.
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From: Bellingham, Wa
1989 190e
Maybe you will get lucky with this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Merce...Q5fAccessories
But no matter what you do about the body kit, it probably won't fit perfectly. If you are good with molding, you could make your own fiberglass (or carbon fiber) body pieces. It sounds like you have plenty of money to spend on this project, so that might be a good route to go.
AMGC - what are you talking about 100K for an evoI?
http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/...hp/carno/46651
http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/...hp/carno/65095
(sexy fricken cars btw)
This is the only EVOII I could find... But I don't think it is common for them to sell for this much
http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/...hp/carno/37358
If it were me I'd tune an EVOI anyway. You can see that they are somewhat "easier" to find, and definetly cheaper to buy. The bodykit may not be exactly what you want, but it's a good start
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Merce...Q5fAccessories
But no matter what you do about the body kit, it probably won't fit perfectly. If you are good with molding, you could make your own fiberglass (or carbon fiber) body pieces. It sounds like you have plenty of money to spend on this project, so that might be a good route to go.
AMGC - what are you talking about 100K for an evoI?
http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/...hp/carno/46651
http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/...hp/carno/65095
(sexy fricken cars btw)
This is the only EVOII I could find... But I don't think it is common for them to sell for this much
http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/...hp/carno/37358
If it were me I'd tune an EVOI anyway. You can see that they are somewhat "easier" to find, and definetly cheaper to buy. The bodykit may not be exactly what you want, but it's a good start
Last edited by Wolfe190; Feb 19, 2010 at 01:40 PM.
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From: MA
Mosselman 190E 16V+ C63S+ Abarth 595
I dont even think anyone has imported an EVOI or II yet. And still 30K. And you mention using a standalone ECU... which would involve converting to EFI. Why not just do an AMG 3.6 M104 swap??? It bolts right up to the getrag tranny. And is not gonna need a rebuild every 1000 miles and get you some good power on tap.
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From: Kuwait,Salmyia- Germany, Baden Württemberg
Cars with Stars
there is a german company who is selling evo kits. its team stadler motorsport www.190teile.de check the webshop (english version available) they are also offering efi systems and '89 dtm style slide throttle intake systems.
i did this conversion on my evo1, power output only by slide throttle an efi conversion is increased to 256hp.
basically you can do a lot with the 16valvers, but it costs a lot of money. i'm building a new engine beside to safe the original one. because evo engine parts are f...... expensive so better don't blow up the original one.
if you do a 16valver engine the right ways it can withstand some more rpm (especially the evo engines due to the shorter stroke). for my new engine i gave my rev meter to a company to adjust it for the new motor. here some pics:
evo2 con. rods for the new engine (they are 120g lighter than evo1 rods)
power output after conversion, cams etc. still stock:
stock output, before conversion:
the rev meter:
i did this conversion on my evo1, power output only by slide throttle an efi conversion is increased to 256hp.
basically you can do a lot with the 16valvers, but it costs a lot of money. i'm building a new engine beside to safe the original one. because evo engine parts are f...... expensive so better don't blow up the original one.
if you do a 16valver engine the right ways it can withstand some more rpm (especially the evo engines due to the shorter stroke). for my new engine i gave my rev meter to a company to adjust it for the new motor. here some pics:
evo2 con. rods for the new engine (they are 120g lighter than evo1 rods)
power output after conversion, cams etc. still stock:
stock output, before conversion:
the rev meter:
Last edited by Rouven036; Feb 21, 2010 at 01:48 AM.
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From: Vallejo, CA USA
15 MB Sprinter, 14 MB S550, 08 Smart Fortwo, 04 Dodge Sprinter, 87 MB 190E 2.3-16
The Evo II Kit listed on Ebay is mine listed by my brother. It was manufactured by AeroCraft which was the the highest quality manufacturer of AMG replicas sold by Conversion Techniques and NR Motoring back in the 90s, whenever AMG models went out of production.
It was a project of mine started in the 90s that I never completed and have decided to piece out parts.
The front fenders are one piece bolt ons. The front and rear bumpers are also bolt ons (not overlays). Side skirts are also bolt on. Rear wing mounts on standard holes.
If interested, make a reasonable offer, I paid $4500 back in 1997. I believe it is still complete. I can post pictures, if anyone is serious of purchasing.
Attached are some pictures of the project.
It was a project of mine started in the 90s that I never completed and have decided to piece out parts.
The front fenders are one piece bolt ons. The front and rear bumpers are also bolt ons (not overlays). Side skirts are also bolt on. Rear wing mounts on standard holes.
If interested, make a reasonable offer, I paid $4500 back in 1997. I believe it is still complete. I can post pictures, if anyone is serious of purchasing.
Attached are some pictures of the project.
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From: Commierado
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Pix are still on the way guys, what brand brake pads and rotors do you suggest I replace the stock ones with? I plan on throwing it around the local track (high plains raceway) before we rip it into little pieces... Also, if any of you need any parts please feel free to PM me as I will be selling the entire interior as well as most of the rest of the car because we will be replacing almost all of it.
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mitsu evo 9 mr, mkiv t61 single supra, e190 evo2 conversion to come
omg, i cant bilieve it is actualy hapening... Im 100% into making evo2 conversion also. I just registered to this site to give you props for actualy doing this. I heard there are 8 conversions in California. The thing i learned about e190 us models that they are cheap cars in 8v form, and 16v are bit pricey and despite they have 2.3 coswort engines, they dont make a lot of power unless you spend thousands.
What im considering to do is 2jzge single turbo swap and r154 transmission + black evo2 conversion, caged, one seater, fuel cell, switch console, carbon dash, electric gauge cluster, wilwood pedals with boosters. Now, my question is what do we do with shocks and brakes??? Bilstein shocks is just not enough. I have searched and cant find any coilover systems for these cars. Wsp with that? Someone point me to the right direction? Brakes? These are the questions you will have too MB Fahrer, so dont mind me interupting ur thread
What im considering to do is 2jzge single turbo swap and r154 transmission + black evo2 conversion, caged, one seater, fuel cell, switch console, carbon dash, electric gauge cluster, wilwood pedals with boosters. Now, my question is what do we do with shocks and brakes??? Bilstein shocks is just not enough. I have searched and cant find any coilover systems for these cars. Wsp with that? Someone point me to the right direction? Brakes? These are the questions you will have too MB Fahrer, so dont mind me interupting ur thread
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From: Commierado
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omg, i cant bilieve it is actualy hapening... Im 100% into making evo2 conversion also. I just registered to this site to give you props for actualy doing this. I heard there are 8 conversions in California. The thing i learned about e190 us models that they are cheap cars in 8v form, and 16v are bit pricey and despite they have 2.3 coswort engines, they dont make a lot of power unless you spend thousands.
What im considering to do is 2jzge single turbo swap and r154 transmission + black evo2 conversion, caged, one seater, fuel cell, switch console, carbon dash, electric gauge cluster, wilwood pedals with boosters. Now, my question is what do we do with shocks and brakes??? Bilstein shocks is just not enough. I have searched and cant find any coilover systems for these cars. Wsp with that? Someone point me to the right direction? Brakes? These are the questions you will have too MB Fahrer, so dont mind me interupting ur thread
What im considering to do is 2jzge single turbo swap and r154 transmission + black evo2 conversion, caged, one seater, fuel cell, switch console, carbon dash, electric gauge cluster, wilwood pedals with boosters. Now, my question is what do we do with shocks and brakes??? Bilstein shocks is just not enough. I have searched and cant find any coilover systems for these cars. Wsp with that? Someone point me to the right direction? Brakes? These are the questions you will have too MB Fahrer, so dont mind me interupting ur thread
Guess we're in this together eh? Umm well for the suspension I actually just ordered a H&R Cup Suspension (gas shocks i believe) here is the link http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html..._ID=31006-1..1 and I'd be more than happy to let you know what I think about it (I am very picky with my suspensions and I'm going to track the car before I begin my DTM conversion project so I can let you know very soon what the H&R suspension is)As for the brakes, I am thinking maybe I'm going to get a Stoptech package. Probably with 330-350mm rotors with 6 piston fronts and 4 piston rears. Any thoughts? As for my engine (the car is a 1986 190e 2.3 cossie), we are sending it to a gentleman in California who will give it a mild race tune and we'll be pushing 330hp and 210-220ft lbs of tq when all is said and done.
Rick
