Help Source Fuel Tank
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2008 E320 Bluetec, 1987 190e 2.6, 2007 CL600
Hey Dolucasi sure, the car can start and idle fine with no issues or weird vibrations nor sounds. But after 2-3 minutes it just turns off and can usually start back up but will soon die repeatedly after each restart attempt. If you try to drive it everything seems fine but the engine will suddenly shut off unexpectedly. There doesn’t seem to be any “trigger” it just suddenly quits. Mechanic says it is losing spark. I asked what he thought about the distributor cap and rotor he said get an EZL first. Took his word because my car is stuck at his shop and he didn’t bother trying to sell me one, he said try to find my own and put it on when I can.
I know the ezl is usually pretty durable but my car sat really long it or my distributor probably got wet or damaged in some way and eventually cooked itself with me suddenly driving it everyday last summer.
I know the ezl is usually pretty durable but my car sat really long it or my distributor probably got wet or damaged in some way and eventually cooked itself with me suddenly driving it everyday last summer.
Last edited by BetterDaze; May 11, 2022 at 10:33 AM.
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From: SF Bay Area, CA
190E 2.6L 1989, 190E 2.6L 1988, BMW 535dXdrive 2014, BMW 428i 2015
Ok BetterDaze, this description helps a lot. I would say that this is either ignition or OVP. If your mechanic already concluded it is ignition, before you change the EZL with a spare I would also look at and eliminate the 2 other possibilities that are actually inputs to the EZL:
(1) TH connection jumper right next to the X11 port. It is exposed and just screwed on. Make sure that is cleaned, screw thightened.
(2) Crank Position Sensor. Make sure connections are good and the resistance of the CPS is to spec.
On the OVP front that is easy. Monitor voltage on pin 6-2 on the X11 port. I believe that is from the OVP. If it glitches or goes away right before the engine stalls, you have your answer. Not sure you have a new OVP in there already.
- Cheers!
(1) TH connection jumper right next to the X11 port. It is exposed and just screwed on. Make sure that is cleaned, screw thightened.
(2) Crank Position Sensor. Make sure connections are good and the resistance of the CPS is to spec.
On the OVP front that is easy. Monitor voltage on pin 6-2 on the X11 port. I believe that is from the OVP. If it glitches or goes away right before the engine stalls, you have your answer. Not sure you have a new OVP in there already.
- Cheers!
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2008 E320 Bluetec, 1987 190e 2.6, 2007 CL600
Thanks dolucasi. My OVP was one of the first things changed on the car and should be still like new. He did check the crank position sensor and said it’s good and holding correct voltage, is there two CPS on our m103s?
I was lucky to find a new old stock EZL and am waiting for it now, I’ll check out that TH jumper as well when I visit my car again, where is that located?
I was lucky to find a new old stock EZL and am waiting for it now, I’ll check out that TH jumper as well when I visit my car again, where is that located?
Last edited by BetterDaze; May 11, 2022 at 03:10 PM.
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From: In the bush on the shores of Lake Nipigon
1990 Mercedes 190E
Thanks dolucasi. My OVP was one of the first things changed on the car and should be still like new. He did check the crank position sensor and said it’s good and holding correct voltage, is there two CPS on our m103s?
I was lucky to find a new old stock EZL and am waiting for it now, I’ll check out that TH jumper as well when I visit my car again, where is that located?
I was lucky to find a new old stock EZL and am waiting for it now, I’ll check out that TH jumper as well when I visit my car again, where is that located?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2016
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From: SF Bay Area, CA
190E 2.6L 1989, 190E 2.6L 1988, BMW 535dXdrive 2014, BMW 428i 2015
Thanks dolucasi. My OVP was one of the first things changed on the car and should be still like new. He did check the crank position sensor and said it’s good and holding correct voltage, is there two CPS on our m103s?
I was lucky to find a new old stock EZL and am waiting for it now, I’ll check out that TH jumper as well when I visit my car again, where is that located?
I was lucky to find a new old stock EZL and am waiting for it now, I’ll check out that TH jumper as well when I visit my car again, where is that located?
I remember Laura's EZL problem earlier now and yes she did need her EZL replaced. This does sound similar.
There are 2 position sensors but the second one in front by the timing marks on the front pulley just get's hooked to the X11 port in case one wants to use it as a diagnostic signal. It has no ignition function whatsoever. If my memory serves me right it goes to pin-4 of that X11 port.
- Cheers!
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2008 E320 Bluetec, 1987 190e 2.6, 2007 CL600
New EZL and cleaned jumper but same symptoms unfortunately.
idles 2-3 minutes then the engine just turns off. I got the chance to listen and watch the engine while the car was running and nothing seems off.
I then remembered that I had removed the black cover protecting the plugs connections at the distributor cap. It had gotten horribly chewed up by my fan due to broken tabs making a horrible sound. I drove a while without it there but have a new one that I never installed since the car went into storage when I first got these stalling issues. Pulled those plugs off and each one of them has a white powder coat/dust inside them. Is this corrosion normal?
I know the o2 is still a possible culprit but my mechanic seemed sure it was losing spark.
idles 2-3 minutes then the engine just turns off. I got the chance to listen and watch the engine while the car was running and nothing seems off.
I then remembered that I had removed the black cover protecting the plugs connections at the distributor cap. It had gotten horribly chewed up by my fan due to broken tabs making a horrible sound. I drove a while without it there but have a new one that I never installed since the car went into storage when I first got these stalling issues. Pulled those plugs off and each one of them has a white powder coat/dust inside them. Is this corrosion normal?
I know the o2 is still a possible culprit but my mechanic seemed sure it was losing spark.
Last edited by BetterDaze; May 14, 2022 at 01:25 PM.
Thread Starter
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2008 E320 Bluetec, 1987 190e 2.6, 2007 CL600
just found this video and I’m thinking it is O2 sensor everything Pierre described is spot on. I have an o2 sensor on hand but can’t install it with the original seized on. Does the new sensor need to be inside the exhaust to test this or can I just connect the new one?
Last edited by BetterDaze; May 14, 2022 at 01:18 PM.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2020
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1991 190E 2.3
New EZL and cleaned jumper but same symptoms unfortunately.
idles 2-3 minutes then the engine just turns off. I got the chance to listen and watch the engine while the car was running and nothing seems off.
I then remembered that I had removed the black cover protecting the plugs connections at the distributor cap. It had gotten horribly chewed up by my fan due to broken tabs making a horrible sound. I drove a while without it there but have a new one that I never installed since the car went into storage when I first got these stalling issues. Pulled those plugs off and each one of them has a white powder coat/dust inside them. Is this corrosion normal?
I know the o2 is still a possible culprit but my mechanic seemed sure it was losing spark.
idles 2-3 minutes then the engine just turns off. I got the chance to listen and watch the engine while the car was running and nothing seems off.
I then remembered that I had removed the black cover protecting the plugs connections at the distributor cap. It had gotten horribly chewed up by my fan due to broken tabs making a horrible sound. I drove a while without it there but have a new one that I never installed since the car went into storage when I first got these stalling issues. Pulled those plugs off and each one of them has a white powder coat/dust inside them. Is this corrosion normal?
I know the o2 is still a possible culprit but my mechanic seemed sure it was losing spark.
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From: SF Bay Area, CA
190E 2.6L 1989, 190E 2.6L 1988, BMW 535dXdrive 2014, BMW 428i 2015
Instead of replacing parts blindly I would suggest more diagnostics. I'm wondering how your mechanic is so sure it is loosing ignition spark?
Also if it is your O2 sensor that is just a sensor so if it malfunctions, you should see it in the EHA current as soon as the ECU switches mode to closed loop.
Here is what I would do:
(1) Acquire a timing strobe light from your local auto parts store. Hook it up and determine if the ignition goes dark a split second before the engine stalls. Very cheap and easy experiment
(2) Monitor your lambda duty cycle from cold start onwards. It should stay at 50% until it starts cycling. What is the duty cycle right before it stalls? (is it railing one way or the other?
(3) You can do item (2) above actually measuring EHA current and that is more direct but if you do not have the harness it is a bit more complicated.
Also if it is your O2 sensor that is just a sensor so if it malfunctions, you should see it in the EHA current as soon as the ECU switches mode to closed loop.
Here is what I would do:
(1) Acquire a timing strobe light from your local auto parts store. Hook it up and determine if the ignition goes dark a split second before the engine stalls. Very cheap and easy experiment
(2) Monitor your lambda duty cycle from cold start onwards. It should stay at 50% until it starts cycling. What is the duty cycle right before it stalls? (is it railing one way or the other?
(3) You can do item (2) above actually measuring EHA current and that is more direct but if you do not have the harness it is a bit more complicated.
Thread Starter
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2008 E320 Bluetec, 1987 190e 2.6, 2007 CL600
I cleaned the spark plugs ends and let the car run until it died. The idle is steadily moving between 600-900rpm, steadily getting lower and lower until it quits didn’t notice that before…
and okay gotcha dolucasi, many of the parts I’ve thrown at the car likely would have needed to be changed anyway considering the state I got it in. I will hold off on further testing until the o2 sensor is replaced. Its probably got over 100,000 miles on top of sitting, I also have a new cat back exhaust with this old sensor
When I first brought him the car last summer he said the o2 sensor was lazy and I did the voltage test you recommended to confirm. He said the car was running lean and adjusted the lambda too. My eha was also leaking and I had then got a new one. Seems everything is pointing at the o2 sensor.
-sent from my phone
and okay gotcha dolucasi, many of the parts I’ve thrown at the car likely would have needed to be changed anyway considering the state I got it in. I will hold off on further testing until the o2 sensor is replaced. Its probably got over 100,000 miles on top of sitting, I also have a new cat back exhaust with this old sensor
When I first brought him the car last summer he said the o2 sensor was lazy and I did the voltage test you recommended to confirm. He said the car was running lean and adjusted the lambda too. My eha was also leaking and I had then got a new one. Seems everything is pointing at the o2 sensor.
-sent from my phone
Last edited by BetterDaze; May 15, 2022 at 10:38 AM.
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1991 190E 2.3
I cleaned the spark plugs ends and let the car run until it died. The idle is steadily moving between 600-900rpm, steadily getting lower and lower until it quits didn’t notice that before…
and okay gotcha dolucasi, many of the parts I’ve thrown at the car likely would have needed to be changed anyway considering the state I got it in. I will hold off on further testing until the o2 sensor is replaced. Its probably got over 100,000 miles on top of sitting, I also have a new cat back exhaust with this old sensor
When I first brought him the car last summer he said the o2 sensor was lazy and I did the voltage test you recommended to confirm. He said the car was running lean and adjusted the lambda too. My eha was also leaking and I had then got a new one. Seems everything is pointing at the o2 sensor.
-sent from my phone
and okay gotcha dolucasi, many of the parts I’ve thrown at the car likely would have needed to be changed anyway considering the state I got it in. I will hold off on further testing until the o2 sensor is replaced. Its probably got over 100,000 miles on top of sitting, I also have a new cat back exhaust with this old sensor
When I first brought him the car last summer he said the o2 sensor was lazy and I did the voltage test you recommended to confirm. He said the car was running lean and adjusted the lambda too. My eha was also leaking and I had then got a new one. Seems everything is pointing at the o2 sensor.
-sent from my phone
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Joined: Mar 2016
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From: SF Bay Area, CA
190E 2.6L 1989, 190E 2.6L 1988, BMW 535dXdrive 2014, BMW 428i 2015
Would you believe that all emission components other than the consumables are original on my 205K miles car? Consumables are:
(1) Distributor cap and rotor (60K miles)
(2) Spark plugs (30K miles)
(3) Fuel Pumps (100K miles)
(4) Fuel filter (50K miles)
(5) Fuel Injectors (180Kmiles)
(6) O2 sensor (90K miles)
(7) Fuel Distributor (150K miles)
(8) EHA (90K miles) due to leaks, not operability
Notice the following suspect items are not on this list: EZL, Spark plug wires, Ignition Coil. All original in my case.
If your O2 sensor has been in there long enough to be completely seized up it is certainly a suspect, however, I urge you to not replace it before taking Duty cycle measurements.
Did you hear what Pierre said in that video? "A bad O2 sensor will show on the Duty cycle measurement". In your case it will really show because yours is stalling like clock work 2-3 minutes into warm-up.
So this measurement will also be a educational diagnostics for you.
- Cheers!
(1) Distributor cap and rotor (60K miles)
(2) Spark plugs (30K miles)
(3) Fuel Pumps (100K miles)
(4) Fuel filter (50K miles)
(5) Fuel Injectors (180Kmiles)
(6) O2 sensor (90K miles)
(7) Fuel Distributor (150K miles)
(8) EHA (90K miles) due to leaks, not operability
Notice the following suspect items are not on this list: EZL, Spark plug wires, Ignition Coil. All original in my case.
If your O2 sensor has been in there long enough to be completely seized up it is certainly a suspect, however, I urge you to not replace it before taking Duty cycle measurements.
Did you hear what Pierre said in that video? "A bad O2 sensor will show on the Duty cycle measurement". In your case it will really show because yours is stalling like clock work 2-3 minutes into warm-up.
So this measurement will also be a educational diagnostics for you.
- Cheers!
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 335
Likes: 33
2008 E320 Bluetec, 1987 190e 2.6, 2007 CL600
Would you believe that all emission components other than the consumables are original on my 205K miles car? Consumables are:
(1) Distributor cap and rotor (60K miles)
(2) Spark plugs (30K miles)
(3) Fuel Pumps (100K miles)
(4) Fuel filter (50K miles)
(5) Fuel Injectors (180Kmiles)
(6) O2 sensor (90K miles)
(7) Fuel Distributor (150K miles)
(8) EHA (90K miles) due to leaks, not operability
Notice the following suspect items are not on this list: EZL, Spark plug wires, Ignition Coil. All original in my case.
If your O2 sensor has been in there long enough to be completely seized up it is certainly a suspect, however, I urge you to not replace it before taking Duty cycle measurements.
Did you hear what Pierre said in that video? "A bad O2 sensor will show on the Duty cycle measurement". In your case it will really show because yours is stalling like clock work 2-3 minutes into warm-up.
So this measurement will also be a educational diagnostics for you.
- Cheers!
(1) Distributor cap and rotor (60K miles)
(2) Spark plugs (30K miles)
(3) Fuel Pumps (100K miles)
(4) Fuel filter (50K miles)
(5) Fuel Injectors (180Kmiles)
(6) O2 sensor (90K miles)
(7) Fuel Distributor (150K miles)
(8) EHA (90K miles) due to leaks, not operability
Notice the following suspect items are not on this list: EZL, Spark plug wires, Ignition Coil. All original in my case.
If your O2 sensor has been in there long enough to be completely seized up it is certainly a suspect, however, I urge you to not replace it before taking Duty cycle measurements.
Did you hear what Pierre said in that video? "A bad O2 sensor will show on the Duty cycle measurement". In your case it will really show because yours is stalling like clock work 2-3 minutes into warm-up.
So this measurement will also be a educational diagnostics for you.
- Cheers!
Will try to update later this week.
Thanks everyone
Last edited by BetterDaze; May 15, 2022 at 09:16 PM.
Thread Starter
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2008 E320 Bluetec, 1987 190e 2.6, 2007 CL600
I got a moment to talk to my mechanic and since the ezl didn’t work he’ll keep my car to diagnose it a bit more instead of me towing it home again. idk when he’ll get to it tho. He said that the o2 sensor does indeed show on the mixture reading and confirms I do need one (nothing new), but in his opinion it would be next to impossible to make the car cut out in the way that is doing.
I did not get a chance to take a part and clean the distributor yet 190eFan, not sure what is “socially acceptable” when it comes to working on one’s own car at the shop you requested service from haha. Fingers crossed that it is the cause of the inconsistent spark, I’ve already replaced other critical electrical parts like ovp and alternator, I have no previous maintenance records but the distributor caps life is probably not far behind.
I did not get a chance to take a part and clean the distributor yet 190eFan, not sure what is “socially acceptable” when it comes to working on one’s own car at the shop you requested service from haha. Fingers crossed that it is the cause of the inconsistent spark, I’ve already replaced other critical electrical parts like ovp and alternator, I have no previous maintenance records but the distributor caps life is probably not far behind.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2020
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1991 190E 2.3
I got a moment to talk to my mechanic and since the ezl didn’t work he’ll keep my car to diagnose it a bit more instead of me towing it home again. idk when he’ll get to it tho. He said that the o2 sensor does indeed show on the mixture reading and confirms I do need one (nothing new), but in his opinion it would be next to impossible to make the car cut out in the way that is doing.
I did not get a chance to take a part and clean the distributor yet 190eFan, not sure what is “socially acceptable” when it comes to working on one’s own car at the shop you requested service from haha. Fingers crossed that it is the cause of the inconsistent spark, I’ve already replaced other critical electrical parts like ovp and alternator, I have no previous maintenance records but the distributor caps life is probably not far behind.
I did not get a chance to take a part and clean the distributor yet 190eFan, not sure what is “socially acceptable” when it comes to working on one’s own car at the shop you requested service from haha. Fingers crossed that it is the cause of the inconsistent spark, I’ve already replaced other critical electrical parts like ovp and alternator, I have no previous maintenance records but the distributor caps life is probably not far behind.
Thread Starter
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2008 E320 Bluetec, 1987 190e 2.6, 2007 CL600
Sort of stuck at the moment but will try and see if I can network with some local MB enthusiasts who can help.
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1991 190E 2.3
left my car at the shop since last time I posted. The mechanic reviewed everything and says I’m actually losing fuel pressure and the car quits. Fuel pumps were replaced before the new screen/tank cleaning and probably got reclogged. They are loud IMO. He recommends to go ahead and restore my fuel tank or try new pumps just to get it driveable in the meantime but warned I’ll likely face the same problem in the future without restoring the tank. I have a fuel tank restoration kit but cannot do this project where I typically store the car and do simple jobs.
Sort of stuck at the moment but will try and see if I can network with some local MB enthusiasts who can help.
Sort of stuck at the moment but will try and see if I can network with some local MB enthusiasts who can help.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 335
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2008 E320 Bluetec, 1987 190e 2.6, 2007 CL600
Picked my car up and towed it home. I had to start it in order to move it. It was on E when originally I had over a quarter tank. I know it wasn’t being driven…..Starts right up, and as we get ready to load it on the truck. I hear the fuel pumps get loud and when I look to inspect under the car, fuel is gushing from the fuel pump area and pouring from the undercover. It was night so I didn’t really bother to look right then but think a hose or connection might simply be loose and straining the fuel pumps. I think my shop got tired of messing with my car and just decided to give it back. This explains the loss of fuel pressure though.
No shop not even the dedicated restoration ones want to help my with restoring my tank, so I’ll convince my grandparents to let me backyard it.
No shop not even the dedicated restoration ones want to help my with restoring my tank, so I’ll convince my grandparents to let me backyard it.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2016
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From: SF Bay Area, CA
190E 2.6L 1989, 190E 2.6L 1988, BMW 535dXdrive 2014, BMW 428i 2015
Did you ever replace that tank to pump hose you were looking for? Seems like you need to overhaul the plumbing back there including the tank as a first step.
Good that the car starts and runs.
- Cheers!
Good that the car starts and runs.
- Cheers!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2020
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1991 190E 2.3
You can go to your local auto parts store and buy some inexpensive fuel die to run in your car. That'll tell you where your fuel leak. Letting your car sit out in the elements in your grandparents backyard won't do your car any favors either.
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1991 190E 2.3
Thread Starter
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2008 E320 Bluetec, 1987 190e 2.6, 2007 CL600
Yup, I will have to start over from when I first got the car and fully clean the fuel system back to front. I kept the original hose it wasn't damaged last I checked but I might have a back up from that other tank.
I recently upgraded my car cover and have the car parked on driveway. It should be okay for a little while, I was saying I'd restore the tank in the back yard.
I recently upgraded my car cover and have the car parked on driveway. It should be okay for a little while, I was saying I'd restore the tank in the back yard.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2020
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1991 190E 2.3
Yup, I will have to start over from when I first got the car and fully clean the fuel system back to front. I kept the original hose it wasn't damaged last I checked but I might have a back up from that other tank.
I recently upgraded my car cover and have the car parked on driveway. It should be okay for a little while, I was saying I'd restore the tank in the back yard.
I recently upgraded my car cover and have the car parked on driveway. It should be okay for a little while, I was saying I'd restore the tank in the back yard.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Aug 2021
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2008 E320 Bluetec, 1987 190e 2.6, 2007 CL600
Hey all, hope you and your families have been doing well staying safe and enjoying your classic!
I recently acquired a new old stock fuel tank!! cleaning my current no longer seemed worth it since the end goal is to restore the car.
I’ll order new fuel pumps and filters soon….but before I start taking things apart I wanted to check in with you guys to get some last minute input on how you’d approach the job and see if there’s anything I’m not currently thinking about to consider
I recently acquired a new old stock fuel tank!! cleaning my current no longer seemed worth it since the end goal is to restore the car.
I’ll order new fuel pumps and filters soon….but before I start taking things apart I wanted to check in with you guys to get some last minute input on how you’d approach the job and see if there’s anything I’m not currently thinking about to consider
