2.5 16v stalling
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Joined: Feb 2013
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From: Tokyo
W210 E55T
Thanks for your continued support and patience.
I have dealt with cars that have sat around lots. 1 944 turbo sat for more than 10 years! I got it started and running smoothly over a weekend. A 500e sat for 5 years, but the tank was full, so that helped. I got it running in about 2 weeks.
Anyway as I mentioned earlier, as soon as its running properly I will sell it, domestically or internationally. So if anyone here is interested please let me know.
I have 3 other project cars I am committed to and I had a dream I bought a W211 E55 wagon. I kicked myself to missing out on a W211 E63 wagon and E55 wagon because I had money and space tied up in this.
I have dealt with cars that have sat around lots. 1 944 turbo sat for more than 10 years! I got it started and running smoothly over a weekend. A 500e sat for 5 years, but the tank was full, so that helped. I got it running in about 2 weeks.
Anyway as I mentioned earlier, as soon as its running properly I will sell it, domestically or internationally. So if anyone here is interested please let me know.
I have 3 other project cars I am committed to and I had a dream I bought a W211 E55 wagon. I kicked myself to missing out on a W211 E63 wagon and E55 wagon because I had money and space tied up in this.
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1991 190E 2.3
While I'm glad you now have the car up and running I must say that had you followed my first recommendation to check the condition of the wiring, you would've had your car up and running so much faster. You seemed to do everything but what Dolucassi and I were recommending and that made the situation so much worse. Iy's really important to follow the recommendations you were being given. You need to remember that you're also dealing with a car that's more than 30 years old that's pretty clearly been subjected to years of neglect and abuse. Age, neglect and abuse aren't the car's fault. Based on my own personal experience, these are wonderful cars when they're properly maintained.
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From: SF Bay Area, CA
190E 2.6L 1989, 190E 2.6L 1988, BMW 535dXdrive 2014, BMW 428i 2015
Refresh our memory, the pump you took out was recently replaced, correct? In either case, indeed that does not look good.
Amazon is not the best place to buy car parts but I know you have limited options where you are.
Amazon is not the best place to buy car parts but I know you have limited options where you are.
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From: SF Bay Area, CA
190E 2.6L 1989, 190E 2.6L 1988, BMW 535dXdrive 2014, BMW 428i 2015
If the pumps are indeed new, you can probably just clean them. That is what I would do instead of replacing them. Particularly because new ones will also soon get gummed up potentially.
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1991 190E 2.3
I totally agree with Dolucassi's advice. It looks like the gas tank and fuel lines also need a good cleaning. The gas tank is likely where all of the crud is coming from and it's being distributed throughout the fuel system.
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Thread Starter
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 202
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From: Tokyo
W210 E55T
Got a new Bosch pump in with new strainer and new filter. It starts but with a very high idle over 2000rpm that comes down just before the fan comes on. Idle is slightly lumpy. #2 then #3 plugs were fouling and black soot on the ground at the tailpipe. That would mean it's too rich right?
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From: SF Bay Area, CA
190E 2.6L 1989, 190E 2.6L 1988, BMW 535dXdrive 2014, BMW 428i 2015
You said, as the fan comes on the idle is back to down. Down to what rpm?
If certain plugs are fouling and the others are not, that would mean that your FD maybe shot because fuel flow in each injector is distributed and controlled by the FD, hence the name.
You may have to measure the fuel delivery quantity to each injector to see if they are equal. If they are not equal you need a rebuilt FD or the injectors are to blame.
If certain plugs are fouling and the others are not, that would mean that your FD maybe shot because fuel flow in each injector is distributed and controlled by the FD, hence the name.
You may have to measure the fuel delivery quantity to each injector to see if they are equal. If they are not equal you need a rebuilt FD or the injectors are to blame.
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From: SF Bay Area, CA
190E 2.6L 1989, 190E 2.6L 1988, BMW 535dXdrive 2014, BMW 428i 2015
Who rebuilt the FD. Do you trust the rebuild? As the man said, "trust but verify"
I can only advise you what I would do. You can check the injectors and the FD in one experiment.
You have to take the injectors out anyway. May as well not disconnect them but pull out from head, stick each one in a nylon bag.
Wrap I rubber band around each one so fuel and odors do not escape. Crank for 20 seconds and see how much fuel you have got in each.
Are they equal?
If so you are done with the experiment. Your FD and injectors are probably vindicated.
If they are not equal, swap the injectors to the different lines on the FD. Crank for another 20 seconds after emptying the nylon bags. Make sure you are recording your results. Did the unequal amount move around the second time?
If yes then it is your injectors (clean or replace, I would replace)
If No it is your FD, go complain to the guy who rebuilt your FD, it was botched.
- Cheers!
I can only advise you what I would do. You can check the injectors and the FD in one experiment.
You have to take the injectors out anyway. May as well not disconnect them but pull out from head, stick each one in a nylon bag.
Wrap I rubber band around each one so fuel and odors do not escape. Crank for 20 seconds and see how much fuel you have got in each.
Are they equal?
If so you are done with the experiment. Your FD and injectors are probably vindicated.
If they are not equal, swap the injectors to the different lines on the FD. Crank for another 20 seconds after emptying the nylon bags. Make sure you are recording your results. Did the unequal amount move around the second time?
If yes then it is your injectors (clean or replace, I would replace)
If No it is your FD, go complain to the guy who rebuilt your FD, it was botched.
- Cheers!
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1991 190E 2.3
Given all of the crud you've been describing you've found in your gas tank etc, I agree that a good cleaning of the entire fuel system is warranted. If cleaning the entire fuel system doesn't solve the problem then I would suggest following Dolucassi's testing recommendations to try to narrow down the source of the problem.
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From: Tokyo
W210 E55T
I cleaned the tank and entire system. The PO told me he replaced the pumps. I assumed they were new. Clearly they were not. After a few starts the high idle fluctuated a bit then came down to about 800rpm. I'll check it from a cold start after work today.
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From: SF Bay Area, CA
190E 2.6L 1989, 190E 2.6L 1988, BMW 535dXdrive 2014, BMW 428i 2015
OK, let us know what is not working to expectation at this point. If the spark plugs are still being fouled unevenly yet the car seems to idle OK, that is not an ignition problem, it would be fueling issues.
If these cars have ignition issues, the car would run pretty crappy during idle and the engine will certainly let you know one or more cylinder is not firing properly.
On the pumps, I hear you, if I sold my car and told the new owner, I changed the fuel pumps, I would not be lying but omitting the fact that I did this 90K miles / 20 years ago!
Mine are showing their age now and need replacement as well.
If these cars have ignition issues, the car would run pretty crappy during idle and the engine will certainly let you know one or more cylinder is not firing properly.
On the pumps, I hear you, if I sold my car and told the new owner, I changed the fuel pumps, I would not be lying but omitting the fact that I did this 90K miles / 20 years ago!
Mine are showing their age now and need replacement as well.
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Joined: Feb 2013
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From: Tokyo
W210 E55T
IGN off
3-2=0
6-2=12.3
IGN on
3-2=3.7
6-2=12.1
Engine running cold idle 1400rpm smooth
3-2=6.9
6-2=13.7
At 80 degree idle fluctuated a bit then came down to 800rpm occasionally stalls. But quickly restarts.
3-2=8.2
6-2=13.7
3-2=0
6-2=12.3
IGN on
3-2=3.7
6-2=12.1
Engine running cold idle 1400rpm smooth
3-2=6.9
6-2=13.7
At 80 degree idle fluctuated a bit then came down to 800rpm occasionally stalls. But quickly restarts.
3-2=8.2
6-2=13.7
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From: SF Bay Area, CA
190E 2.6L 1989, 190E 2.6L 1988, BMW 535dXdrive 2014, BMW 428i 2015
IGN off
3-2=0
6-2=12.3
^^^^ Everything normal up there
IGN on
3-2=3.7
6-2=12.1
^^^^^ 70% Duty cycle, no error codes, non-CA car, normal
Engine running cold idle 1400rpm smooth
3-2=6.9
6-2=13.7
^^^^^ 50% Duty cycle normal, no active error codes, ECU is aware the engine is cold, rpm's a bit high, it should be more like 1100-1000
At 80 degree idle fluctuated a bit then came down to 800rpm occasionally stalls. But quickly restarts.
3-2=8.2
6-2=13.7
^^^^^^ 40% Duty cycle, near optimal, nothing to adjust there
Not sure why it is stalling when hot, the duty cycle does not suggest anything odd.
You have to root cause the stall, is it electrical idle control related or fuel delivery related?
Since the behavior is repeatable, you should borrow the fuel pressure gauge and hook it up and see if there is deviation from the ~5.5Bar pressure after the car warms up, especially right before the stall.
It could also be electrical and idle control related as well but since you've had fueling issues in the past I would focus on the fuel delivery first.
How does the car drive?
3-2=0
6-2=12.3
^^^^ Everything normal up there
IGN on
3-2=3.7
6-2=12.1
^^^^^ 70% Duty cycle, no error codes, non-CA car, normal
Engine running cold idle 1400rpm smooth
3-2=6.9
6-2=13.7
^^^^^ 50% Duty cycle normal, no active error codes, ECU is aware the engine is cold, rpm's a bit high, it should be more like 1100-1000
At 80 degree idle fluctuated a bit then came down to 800rpm occasionally stalls. But quickly restarts.
3-2=8.2
6-2=13.7
^^^^^^ 40% Duty cycle, near optimal, nothing to adjust there
Not sure why it is stalling when hot, the duty cycle does not suggest anything odd.
You have to root cause the stall, is it electrical idle control related or fuel delivery related?
Since the behavior is repeatable, you should borrow the fuel pressure gauge and hook it up and see if there is deviation from the ~5.5Bar pressure after the car warms up, especially right before the stall.
It could also be electrical and idle control related as well but since you've had fueling issues in the past I would focus on the fuel delivery first.
How does the car drive?
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Joined: Feb 2013
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From: Tokyo
W210 E55T
Thanks for your super quick reply. Almost like you are neeeaaar.
Back to the old fuel pressure thing again. I'll have to take it to the dealer on a flatbed for them to look at it make another appointment a few weeks later to take it back. It's at my house now. No plates so I'll have to run it up and down my street an hope one of my a-hole neighbors don't call the cops on me.....again.
Back to the old fuel pressure thing again. I'll have to take it to the dealer on a flatbed for them to look at it make another appointment a few weeks later to take it back. It's at my house now. No plates so I'll have to run it up and down my street an hope one of my a-hole neighbors don't call the cops on me.....again.
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From: SF Bay Area, CA
190E 2.6L 1989, 190E 2.6L 1988, BMW 535dXdrive 2014, BMW 428i 2015
Your welcome. Well if you are going to take that drastic of an action (to the dealer) first run another experiment. Start the car and let it run for a minute or two, then unplug the IACV connector.
The idle is bound to go up in rpms. Let me know where it settles after the coolant temp >80c.Leave it unplugged and see if it stalls now. Also take it for a run around the block with it unplugged.
Let us know your observations.
The idle is bound to go up in rpms. Let me know where it settles after the coolant temp >80c.Leave it unplugged and see if it stalls now. Also take it for a run around the block with it unplugged.
Let us know your observations.
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1991 190E 2.3
I agree with Dolucassi that the fuel delivery is the first place to check given all of the previous fuel system issues. I'm also inclined to think fuel delivery at this point because if the issue is elsewhere, I would think the stalling would be more widespread than it is. Of course nothing is impossible and especially with a car that suffers from a pretty serious case of previous neglected maintenance the way your car suffers from. I've lost track on the status of the fuel distributor. An easy check would also be to make sure there's no moisture in the cap as that can cause the kind of trouble you're having as well. If it turns out to not be a fuel delivery issue, I think I would next check the condition of all of the engine wiring to see if there's a loose wire or maybe a corroded or dirty wiring connection.
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Joined: Feb 2013
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From: Tokyo
W210 E55T
I'll be going over the whole system again.
I checked the screen at the FD it was clean.
It keeps fouling the plugs one after the other. So that's either the new injectors are dirty or the FD is dirty. One day it's perfect. Next day rough idle black soot at the tail pipe and rough idle, surging and stalling. I need to use 2 pedals to move it. Really frustrating.I need a vacation from this car.
I checked the screen at the FD it was clean.
It keeps fouling the plugs one after the other. So that's either the new injectors are dirty or the FD is dirty. One day it's perfect. Next day rough idle black soot at the tail pipe and rough idle, surging and stalling. I need to use 2 pedals to move it. Really frustrating.I need a vacation from this car.
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From: SF Bay Area, CA
190E 2.6L 1989, 190E 2.6L 1988, BMW 535dXdrive 2014, BMW 428i 2015
Most likely the fuel delivery is all messed up. Either a botched FD rebuild or it all got fouled up due to contaminants in the fuel after the rebuild.
If you want to get to the bottom of FD versus injectors being the problem, you will need to do the test I recommended or put the injectors to a injector tester.
Mercedessource has a video on that just type the words "mercedessource injector test" in google. Or follow this link:
Don't give up!
If you want to get to the bottom of FD versus injectors being the problem, you will need to do the test I recommended or put the injectors to a injector tester.
Mercedessource has a video on that just type the words "mercedessource injector test" in google. Or follow this link:
Don't give up!
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1991 190E 2.3
If you're still getting soot out the back of your tail pipes, that leads me to believe that your entire fuel system continues to be fouled by crud that continues to circulate through the entire fuel system. I would start by checking the fuel filter. If that is clean then I agree with Dolucassi to see of the problem is either with the injectors or the fuel distributor itself. If that all checks out, then I would check both the fuel lines and the condition of the gas tank to be sure that the fuel lines are clear and that the interior of the gas tank isn't corroded and spreading crud through the fuel system. Sadly your car is suffering from years of either bad or no maintenance combined with the likely use of poor quality fuel/
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Posts: 202
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From: Tokyo
W210 E55T
Number 3 spark plug was clean all others fowled. #3 port on the FD had dirty fuel in the pot. I put injector cleaner through all the injectors more or less got a cone spray pattern. I'll try to get them cleaned or replaced again.
When I depress the sensor plate the flow from the pots looked uneven. #3 had I higher flow.
When I depress the sensor plate the flow from the pots looked uneven. #3 had I higher flow.
