OK so it appears that vacomercedes has the part that I need, the trouble is that it is listed for $129.99. I've tried and tried to find this part. My local dealer does not have it, but offers one through a third party for $100. It would appear that there is an awareness that this part is in short supply. I've considered just putting it back together and simply removing the filter screen from the part. That would leave no filtration between the tank and the pump (new pump I might add). Given that I've had the tank cleaned and lined this may be a risk worth taking, but then again for another ~$130 I can have the correct MB part that I need. Anyone have any thoughts?

Thanks

randy

 

If you buy gas at some point and get some "fresh" sediment in your tank from the gas station's underground tanks, your new pump might ingest it which could shorten its life or break it. For $130 you might avoid the replacement of the pump and a tow truck ride.

In my experience (I've had German cars since the 90's) very few parts can be omitted without there being a consequence.

Greg

 

Indeed, you need this filter. I would not try to Mcgwire it either. The standard filter when I bought it was in the $30 range at the dealership a year ago.

But can you explain this:

RandyMorgan>>> My local dealer does not have it, but offers one through a third party for $100

Dealers will only sell parts in their supply chain not 3rd party. So I'm confused about this set-up but buying it thru the dealership is always a better option.

 

Ways to contact the MB Classic Center: 1-866-622-5277 or classicparts@mbusa.com. You might also try Adsitco if the MB Classic Center doesn't have what you need. You can reaxh Adsitco at 1-800-521-7656 or www.adsitco.com.

 

OK, so I finally got the correct strainer. I put it in the tank and made sure the O ring was in there too. Put my remanufactured fuel line on the strainer and new , I guess they are vent lines, on the tank, put the rubber seal on all of this and put the tank back in the car. I disconnected the fuel line from the throttle body, and cranked the engine till I got about a quart of fuel in a container, then I connected the fuel line to the throttle body and got it started, It runs but only if I continually pump the throttle, and it dies when I try to bring it to idle. Now another frustration, I have a leak where the strainer goes into the tank. Maye I don't have it tight enough. Should I use some sort of gasket cement? I tried not to make it too tight, but when I try to tighten the fuel line going into the strainer, the whole thing moves. So I gotta fix the leak before I can try to get it running smoothly. I walked away from it for a few days just to try to get my thoughts together.

Any suggestions for help will be appreciated.

 

I did that job a couple years ago so kinda fuzzy but I think the main outlet fuel line will spin opposite of the strainer itself going in the tank.

First secure the strainer, no cement needed the gas will just erode it away eventually, It does have to be super tight but once you feel like it’s going to break stop immediately. My original was almost impossible to remove but I ended up with new tank and left it alone….

With the tank and strainer in the car, I crawled underneath to align the main outlet line might be easier if the tank is not bolted in, you can try holding the strainer in place with channel locks as you screw in the main outlet fuel line with another wrench.

once you stop all the leaks it should run, system is gravity fed so a disruption in flow seems capable of causing a stall in my experience

 

That joint is leak free when the o-ring is new and the mating surfaces are clean an plumb. It should be hand tight only, do not torque it at all. It is tightened just to make sure it does not loosen over time not to seal. You will be sorry if you over-tighten.
The seal is the oring, once the metal surfaces mate, tightening further will not get you anywhere but perhaps stripped threads.

Take it apart and do it over and do not use gaskets, seal compounds etc.

I mentioned this before in this thread, when I cleaned out my fuel sender I had a heck of a time to avoid leakage with a full tank. I had to lightly sand the sender and tank side surface to achieve a smooth finish. Once that was done no leaks. The sender and the strainer is the exact same joint. When I installed a new fuel strainer I lightly sanded the tank to remove crud.
No leaks in first try.

On the stall during idle, that is most likely a completely separate issue and needs to be diagnosed later once you have a leak free installation.

 

It's possible that the fuel line might be leaking just enough to prevent a full supply of gas from getting to the engine and that might be the reason for the stalling. I agree that you should solve the fuel leak first to see if the car runs properly on a full supply of fuel. It it stalls after the fuel leak is fixed then that's another separate issue that'll need to be diagnosed.

 

OK, I REALLY appreciate all the help that you guys are providing, but now there appears to be a little disagreement. So, given that I have not yet tightened the four bolts holding the tank in, I thing I am going to remove the tank again, so that I can get easier access to the strainer connection to the tank, so do I tighten it a lot, or not? With the tank out I can then tighten the fuel line to the strainer then put it all back together again. The approach that I took with the tank out earlier in the week was to tighten the strainer snug, "like someone said letting the O-ring do it's thing". but now I have leaks. It is easier for me to tighten these connections with the tank out as there is very little room to get wrenches in to the area where it all comes together. Also the small lines - - - ? are those simply vent lines? it does not appear that any liquid flows through those two smaller lines, I that correct?

Again you guys are a great help to me and I am most appreciative in your time and effort responding to me and trying to help me get this old 190 back on the road

 

Dolucasi has more experience than I, so I’d say prioritize his input over mine. I was just telling you my experience since it is similar and recent. I made mine tight as I could, imo you would have to be intentional to actually break the tank but caution will always save you more time and money than man handling things. Make sure it is seated level,Tighten it by hand and then snug it a bit more with a wrench

i actually recall now I did fit the line to the strainer before putting the tank in the car, that’s how I broke the vent valve so be careful with that too. One line is a vent valve the other is a fuel return I believe, don’t mix them up

 

Most believe that just because these joints were hard to takeoff that it must have been torqued. Not so. Generally they are tight because of corrosion, crud etc.

When I replaced my strainer that was in there for 35 years that large nut was not tight at all. Factory installed in '89. I was surprised too, but soon realized there is an o-ring there. I have also removed that fitting on a few W201's in the junk hard. All the same.

Simply put: tightening that large not will not get you anywhere, except into trouble. Once the two metals meet and hand tight, you are done.

Just consider all those coolant lines with o rings and strong pressure. At the pump, return line, at the cylinder head, heater core, etc, etc. All are torqued just so they stay put, not to avoid leaks upon installation.

Just make sure that the leak is from the o-ring and not the newly manufactured fixture.

And then make sure the surface is nice and clean on the tank side and you have a properly sized 0-ring. I always slightly grease an o-ring with silicon to make sure it does not get damaged during installation.

Trust me on this one.....

 

So at long last and now that it is warmer I was able to get the fuel lines from the tank to the fuel pump secured and NOT LEAKING. I had the tank cleaned and lined, and there is a new strainer and a filter and a new pump. The accumulator is OK i guess. In any event with fuel in the tank and making sure that it is delivering fuel to the throttle body (I disconnected the line and observed that it is pumping fuel) so there is fuel coming from the pump. Anyhow, I can get it to turn over and run but only for a second or two. I pour a little fuel or use starting fluid sprayed into the throttle body, and again it runs but stalls within a few seconds. So where to next?. Do I need to clean the injectors? The car sat, remember, for about 10 years. I sounds great for the few seconds that it actually runs. . .

 

Sorry Randy I don’t remember exactly where you left off with the car, was it ever drivable since you got it after the 10 years?

When I was at the point you are, I also used the starter fluid to get the motor to start and then once it seems like it’s going to run , hit and hold the gas pedal lightly until the motor catches and see if it starts running on its own. You will need a second person you can trust to not overspray the starter fluid and not fully floor the pedal. There could be slight condensation or debris in the injectors. I did replace my injectors with the gold ones but at this stage it wasn’t really a factor

If that doesn’t work you will need to check spark/voltage and air (vacuum leaks)

 

If a W201 starts at first strike with a cold engine, ignition is most likely fine.

You are not getting fuel into the cylinder by means of the FD. It is only getting fuel form the cold start valve which allows it to run for a second or so.

Since you had all the plumbing open for months on end it is possible that the system has dried out and void of any fuel.
When this happens, it takes many many starts to get the fuel the flow.

To verify this, remove one injector and stick it in a nylon bag or jar. Crank away and see it is is spraying any fuel. My guess is it is not.

 

If the car is turning over and briefly running that tells me that there is spark. I agree with Dolucasi that the injectors are out of fuel and don't appear to be getting any given that the car only runs for a few seconds after it starts. This tells me that somewhere between the gas tank and the injectors, there's a fuel delivery issue. Has it been established that all of the fuel lines are nice and clear and working properly? If that's the case than the probable culprit may well be the fuel distributor which Dolucasi's test will establish. whether or not there is fuel flowing to the injectors.

 

Thanks for the ideas. So, I worked on the car a little yesterday, and got it to run a little longer, but just as I was happy with that I realized that there was fuel coming out of one of the two small lines that goes from the tank to somewhere in the engine. Now I did replace those lines and got the lines tight with clamps on the tank side, but I did not get clamps on the lines that go forward to the engine compartment. Working on my back on a creeper, I just couldn't get small clamps on those lines. So fuel is coming out of one of those lines. At least fuel is not coming out of the main line out of the tank. I'm gonna be on a road trip in my MGB from the East coast to Colorado to do the Glennwood Springs road rallye for a few weeks so I won't have time to work on it till Mid June. Any Ideas??? Again, thanks

randy

 

This sounds like this might be your issue which is a fuel delivery problem. Not enough fuel is getting to the injectors due to the fuel leak so that's why your car is only running for a short time. Now that you know your car is leaking fuel, it's best not to drive it until the fuel leak issue is solved.

 

Well, I am back at it again with my 1985190E. I have the lines from the tank all secure and as well the two lines one a vent and the other the line that takes fuel back to the tank. All dry, so I am off to make sure that fuel is getting to the engine. I am confident that fuel is getting to the engine. There is pressure as evidenced by fuel coming out of the lines when I "crack" a couple of them. So I am still not able to get the thing to run. I put starting fluid into the air flow sensor and it'll run for a few seconds then quit. So where do I go from here?

 

Chiming in here since I basically just did the same thing, getting a car that had not run in nearly a decade back on the road. See my thread "New to me..." that I just posted to. You might find some information to help you.

The accumulator would not cause a no-start, only simply a hard to start, or a slow re-start. It's just there to maintain pressure so you have quick engine starting.

Have you verified the fuel pressure? The injectors (more accurately, fuel nozzles since they are not pulsed, they are constant flow like a jet turbine) in a K Jetronic system require a certain amount of pressure in order to open. You might be getting that pressure for a brief moment but not sustaining it.

Going to ask an odd question here, but work with me.
Has the ball that blocks off adjustment of the mixture screw on the fuel distributor been broken to give you access to it? Or is it still "factory settings"
Injectors are cheap enough that they are worth replacing, if you look at the "kit" FCP Euro has, order everything except the really expensive sleeves. I would also recommend replacing your two idle control valve hoses, buy them from the dealership to get matching genuine Mercedes ones. I wouldn't buy the non genuine ones, since the genuines are cheaper.

When you say replace the lines, did you cut the band clamps off and replace the hose? That's what I did on my car, and I used Cohline 2240, which is 100% ethanol proof.
The main fuel tank line is a 14mm ID hose. I have some left over from refurbishing my car. It's good Cohline stuff, proper. If you want some, let me know. Mine was totally collapsed from sitting so nothing would come out.

Check fuel pressure with a gauge. You can't judge the pressure without doing that.

 

OK so I'm gonna just replace the injectors as I do believe them to be original. I have a 1985 2.3 L pre face lift. The Haynes manual shows the injector, a Injector Sealing Ring a Sleeve and Seal, and an O ring (also called a Sleeve and seal). While FCP Euro shows the injector that fits my car they don't show the other parts as fitting the 1985. So What do I order? The injector looks like the right part, but I'm told that I also need to replace the O rings too. I just wanna be sure that I get all the parts that I need, and that they all fit my car. Any thoughts?

 

Randy,

I would push down the on the AFM disc slightly while a helper turn the key to start the car. If the vacuum of the engine isn't great enough to pull down the AFM disc that pushes the piston of the Fuel distributor to get the fuel and fuel pressure to the injectors. The culprit would be a massive air leak past the throttle body. ICV hoses, AFM boot cracked, etc. There is an adjustment procedure that coordinates the position of the FD piston and AFM disc.

There is also a filter at the inlet of the FD that needs cleaned.

I could not working on these cars without a set of Fuel pressure .gauges. Without the Fuel pressures in spec and volume flow these cars won't run. So I'm thinking the PO messed with the 3 mm screw to 'tune' the car.

Let us known.

 

Thanks for the reply. The PO was my best friends mother. I bought the car a long time ago. Drove it infrequently and it ran perfectly. Then while I was restoring a couple of MGs I pretty much neglected it, put it in a garage and it set for 10 years. I pulled the fuel pump assembly, and the gas tank. Had the tank professionally cleaned and coated. Replaced all of the lines, and as well the whole fuel pump/filter/accumulator etc.
I will check the filter that you mention before I replace the injectors. If I do replace the injectors do I need the seal too, and the O ring? It seems that FCP Euro has the injectors, but not the seal, and AUTOHAUS AZ has the same injectors and as well the seal.

 

I have a video of the engine running while I am trying to start it. The video shows that the AFM disc is indeed pulling down while I try to start it. I don't know how to include a video in this reply so that you can see it.

 

Post on youtube and provide a link. That always works.

You never mentioned how many miles this car has.

 

I'll work on the You tube thing. I've never done that. The car has 35000 miles on it.