RandyMorgan

Hey I have a few days to work on my 190E that hasen't run in 10 years (it does run when shot up with starting fluid) so I want to be sure that the fuel system is clean, so I'm going to remove the tank and fuel pump and filter. Anyone have any advise as to process or things to be careful about? I do have the haynes manual to guide me.

190Efan

Did you first drain the fuel tank of the old fuel and put fresh fuel in before you tried to start your car? If you started your car with the old likely now varnish fue,l you'll need to do a major cleaning throughout at least your fuel system and maybe more.

dolucasi

Yep, and after you take the fuel pump off flush out the fuel in the lines with an air compressor. I would not go above 40 psi. Catch the fuel in a bottle and you will see how bad it looks. Probably pretty muddy. If you attempted to start the car prior to doing this, the damage may have been done and may require chemical cleaning or replacing parts. I have never had to do that. Seek help on that part of it.

I have done this on my car that was only sitting for 8 months and it was not pretty.

RandyMorgan

Thanks for the help. So, I disconnected the fuel inlet from the fuel intake so when I turned over I did not suck any fuel into the intake. I did hit it with starting fluid to see if it would run, and it fired right up and ran for about 5 seconds. Yesterday I jacked the car up and put cinder blocks under the wheels so I could remove the fuel pump and filter assembly. I did siphon the fuel from the tank, and that fuel looked fine, not varnished, a little darker than when new maybe. Anyhow, I went about removing the fuel pump/filter assembly, and got to the larger inlet from the tank into the pump, and a whole lot of fuel began to run out. Suffice to say, siphoning the fuel from the tank DID NOT remove all the fuel. I had fuel all over the place. The fuel all looked fine, and trust me there had to be another 2 gallons. Went to Tractor Supply and got absorbent to soak uup the fuel that was on the floor. So I got the assembly off, cleaned all the parts real good and I have ordered a new filter.

Should I bench test the pump, and if so, how? Any suggestons about putting it all back together? Also I am indluding a picdture of the little box behind the battery. You indicated that you wanted to see what was inside. I guess this little "box" is some sort of altitude adjustment device like a barometer. Anyhow here's what mine looks like with the top off of it. Again thanks for your help, I am anxous to get this 190E back on the road, but I am not going to rush the process. Patience is not my long suite.

dolucasi

You probably do not need to replace the fuel pumps yet although this is just a convenient time. They last anywhere from 100K to 150K miles. If you know the history you can judge it.
In my case it had been ~85K miles so I did. I did not want to inhale raw fuel vapors again in the near future....

As for your altimeter, 2 months ago I would have said they never go bad. But I acquired this '88 5 speed about 3 months ago and it was throwing CE light every now and then and complaining about the altimeter. Just like yours the plastic lid was also easily coming off, plus this car lived all its life in more humid places (Portland, SF) so electrical connections are suspect. I tested the altimeter and everything was in spec, I also cleaned the connector from the harness to it using a contact cleaner. Still, CE light randomly now and then. I even replaced the ECU with a spare one I had. Still it persisted. The car was running fine BTW.

So finally I found the spare altimeter I pulled from a JY many years ago and swapped it. CE light has not come back since. It was been 3-4 weeks and I use the car daily.

FWIW,

190Efan

Given the appearance of the fuel, maybe the car hasn't sat as long as had been previously thought. You just might've gotten lucky and escaped this time. I agree with dolucasi to make sure that everything is nice and clean. It does sound like the altimeter likely needs to be replaced as noted by dolucasi. I don't know what the current availability for an altimeter might be. Adsitco is a good place to find hard to find MB parts if you can't find one in a junkyard.

RandyMorgan

Thanks for all the help. In cleaning all the stuff under the car in the vacinity of the fuel pump and filter, I notice that the main line coming from the fuel tank to the fuel pump is in pretty bad shape. Do any of you know of a source for this part?

dolucasi

Unfortunately Randy, that part is NLA. No one makes it. You have 3 options:

1) Have an industrial shop replace the rubber hose installed on the original fitting
2) Find a better one in a Junk Yard, this part is W201 specific
3) Purchase an early R129 part that almost fits but the hose is the wrong shape so you have to fiddle with it to fit or cut the hose and install some sort of a an elbow at the right part.

My favorite option is #2. if you can find the part in a JY. But people have had success with #1.

RandyMorgan

OK, so I took the fuel filter/pump assembly out. I drained the tank by virtue of having removed the gravity feed from the tank to the pump. I put in a new filter. I cleaned everything up and put it back on the car, but I do not believe I am getting fuel. The engine runs with starting fluid, so I know the engine runs. I do not believe I am geting current to the fuel pump. When I had the assembly out I did not bench test the pump, and as well I did not see if there is current to the pump. I have the dash out to make repairs to it, so there are wires hanging everywhere in the cabin of the car.

Could there be an "OPEN" somewhere in the circutry that is keping the fuel pump from pumping? I know there is a relay somewhere in the circutry, I did not have a test light with me at the time, so I do not know if when I turn the ignition on current is getting to the fuel pump.

Any thoughts? I guess I could "hot wire" to the fuel pump, but I'd not really like to do that..

dolucasi

1) You mention "pump" not "pumps". So do you only have one pump or two months.
2) If you have two, you may have the two wired backwards so they would be fighting against each other. The connectors are polarized with different sized eye connectors but who knows.
3) When you turn on the ignition to on (engine off) you should hear the pump run for 2 minutes. If you do not, that is a/the problem
4) Yes there are two big black bricks next to your ECU. One is Fuel pump relay , the other is labelled KLIMA (which means climate/AC in German). The Fuel Pump Relay could be defective.

I know people jumper the output of the FPR to turn on the fuel pumps, I would not advocate for that.

RandyMorgan

As always, thanks for your reply. I only have one pump, and yes the polarity is controlled by the size of the post/nut. ith regard to the relay, I did see a you tube video showing how to jumper the 30 post to the 87 post in the relay. Pretty good it's titled :

Mercedes W201 190E Fuel Pump Relay also W124

So I may try that. In any event I think, given the condition of the large line that goes from the tank to the pump, I may pull the tank, so I can fabricate a new fuel line. I resist doing that because of the labor, but I do believe there is a filter in the tank connected to the hose, and I can not break loose the line from the tank lying on my back in my garage. At least now I know to have a bucket ready when I pull the hose off of the pump.

By the way, and I always forget to mention this, about 2 years ago my wife and I were in Moroco. We were really suprised at the number of 190's that we saw there. Again, your help is really appreciated.

Thanks,
randy

dolucasi

So the right way to do this is to remove the fuel straining filter that the hose fitting connects to. You should because that could be completely clogged and need replaced. Available at the dealer or online.. Happens to cars that sit. I replaced my original a year ago and it was super clean but my car did not ever sit for more than 8 months.

You can not remove the tank before you remove the strainer anyway. So the strainer has to come off. unfortunately you need to invest $25 on a special hex socket to remove it. So do not try to pry it out, you will be sorry. The special hex socket (it is large) is sold online, that's here I ordered it. Look for "fuel strainer bold socket W124" or W201 and it will come up.

Taking the tank out is not too productive BTW unless you decide to replace it. Check the strainer first.

If you decide to jump the terminals at the FPR make it temporary, just to check it that is your issue. Do not leave it jumped like that.

- Cheers!

190Efan

Since the OP's car is a 1985, that makes it a 2.3. 2.3s only have the 1 fuel pump. It's my understanding that it's the 2.6s that have the 2 fuel pumps and they didn't begin production until 1988. Otherwise, I toally agree with the rest of your advise.

RandyMorgan

Thanks for the reply. I guess I have not really gotten a handle on the fuel line that goes into the strainer. It is the main fuel line that goes to the fuel pump. That said, looking at the strainer part it looks like the fuel line has a union into the fuel strainer that is threaded. It is pretty hard to see, and there is spmething of a rubber seal or mount of some sort. So if I get a wrench on the line that goes into the fuel strainer and break that loose, that frees up the fuel line I guess. Then I can get a socket on the fuel strainer and drop that out. I was thinking of just pulling the tank, and thinking that the fuel line and strainer that would come out with the tank, but the fuel line has an elboe in it, so I guess it would not clear the hole where the strainer is. If I don't need to remoe the tank, I'm OK with that. With the fuel line out of the strainer, then I can put a new fuel line in, because the one that is there is in poor condition.

190Efan

Make sure that fuel strainer is nice and clean and replace both the rubber seal and the rubber hose as well. I'm thinking out loud that it might actually be a good idea to remove the fuel tank in this particular case since your car sat for so long. There might be a lot of debris that's in the tank that needs to be cleaned out so it won't plug up the rest of your newly cleaned and replaced parts.That might be an additional reason why the car won't start on it's own.

dolucasi

There were so many typos in this post below are with the connections:

1) You mention "pump" not "pumps". So do you only have one pump or two pumps (not your case anyway)
2) If you have two, you may have the two wired backwards so they would be fighting against each other. The connectors are polarized with different sized eye connectors but who knows. (not the case)
3) When you turn on the ignition to on (engine off) you should hear the pump run for 2 seconds. If you do not, that is a/the problem
4) Yes there are two big black bricks next to your ECU. One is Fuel pump relay , the other is labelled KLIMA (which means climate/AC in German). The Fuel Pump Relay could be defective.

I know people jumper the output of the FPR to turn on the fuel pumps, I would not advocate for that

RandyMorgan

Again Thanks for your expertise. So the main fuel line, the one that goes to the inlet on the fuel pump and is a simple hose clamp connection, the other end goes to the strainer in the tank. The hose is in horrible shape, so replacing it is pretty much a must do. The end that goes into the strainer, which is in the tank is pretty much VERY difficult to get to. So, If i let the fuel line connected to the strainer in place, and pull the tank, will the fuel line (it does have an elbow) clear the hole where the line goes into the strainer/tank. Also there are, I believe two smaller lines going into the tank, which I do belive are vents of some type. Obviously if I pull the tank C can replace the smaller "vent" lines. I won't have time to work on this thing again until Tuesday. then I do think I'm gonna go ahead and check the relay for the fuel pump first, but like after I disconnect the fuel line from the pump, and thereby draining the tank again. Any step wise process ideas or suggestions will be greatly appreciated,

190Efan

I would recommend replacing all of the fuel lines given the age of your car and the fact that rubber deteriorates over time. Your car sat for too long so it's best to err on the side of caution and replace all of the rubber fuel lines and make sure that the strainer and filter are nice and clean. Replacing the fuel relay won't help you if you keep using old fuel lines that are likely plugged with debris. You also want to make sure that the interior of the tank is nice and clean and doesn't have any debris in it that could potentially plug up the rest of the fuel system.

dolucasi

Agreed 190EFan. The other line(s) which have rubber are available at the dealer for a 2.6, not sure about the 2.3. I would replace them.

One of the other lines going into the tank has a vent check valve on it. I would replace that. I just replaced my original since I was already in there last year even though it was perfectly operational. Saved it for some future day when this part goes NLA.

Like I may have said you need to take the line going into the tank/strainer off using a plumbers wrench. A 90 degree angle with a claw on it. Nothing else will work there other than possibly a special tool made for this. Plumbers use this tool to remove the sink faucet fittings from the bottom.

Next you need to remove the strainer and this one requires a shallow giant wrench socket that is shallow, not available in hardware stores. Just order this online. It is too tight in there to use an ordinary socket. Also replace the o ring (I think there is one) and clean the tank surface super clean as you need a smooth surface.

RandyMorgan

OK so I got the tank out. The pictures show that I have cut the OE lines, and will fabricate my own using the OE fittings. I need to clean the tank. What is the best way to do that? As I recall, some radiator shops clean gas tanks too. Do any of you have any experience with that?

thanks,

randy

dolucasi

I'm not sure which pictures you are referring to but lines should not be cut to remove the tank, like I mentioned earlier you need to take the strainer out, that's it.
Installing is the reverse of removal, so chances are if you had to cut lines to remove, you will not be able to install using the same method.

I do not know what is done to clean a tank. I suspect a strong solvent is used but the experts would now. I know the steam bath the machinist use to clean cylinder heads works like a charm with no solvents, that could be an option.

RandyMorgan

dolucosi, thanks again for your response. As it turned out, there was no strainer in this tank. The lines that I cut were the real short ones that had spring clamps. I cut them so that I could get the tank out without having to struggle getting a clamp pliers on the lines that were pretty high up in the access hole for the tank. Putting it back together I will put the rubber fuel lines on the tank along with the main fuel line from the tank(the threaded coupling) drop the tank back in and there should be no issueconnecting the small rubber vent lines to the vent lines that go up to the evap sustem.

The tank has a lot of what looks like sediment in it. There are non caustic cleaning agents available, I guess I am just looking for ideas from anyone who may have cleaned their tank before.

I am glad I took the tank out. It was a pita though.

BetterDaze

I put a new old stock tank in my car. I had to replace my tank because my car sat for a couple decades and was rusting internally on top of sediment and varnish. Yours may not be as severe but using cleaners simply released even more sediment from the walls of the tank and ended up clogging my pumps that I had just recently installed this was causing a random stall on my car that took months to finally find the root which was the tank itself.

A new tank is 500 a used one about 200. The job is not difficult but who wants to keep doing it? Haha, I believe there is supposed to be a strainer on the outlet hose you can see how well it does its job when you take an old one out. The main line screw into the strainer and the strainer screws into the tank


POR15 sells a fuel tank restoration kit as well but I never used mine

i also agree with dolucasi don’t make a habit of cutting lines because they are almost all NLA and if you do cut one preserve the metal fittings at the least you can crimp rubber onto them and keep OE flow/function

dolucasi

To add to BetterDaze's comments, you definitely need that strainer in there, so purchase one and install it when you are ready to install the tank (new or refurbished). They are dirt cheap as far as I remember.

RandyMorgan

Good considerations all. However now that all is apart, I can see that there was never a strainer in the tank. The sttrainers are engineered to screw into the tank. This tank has a male nipple on to which the fuel line is connected by way of a female compression connection. There is no way to install a strainer. But, now that I have taken the main fuel line apart, I can fabricate the main fuel line using the OE couplings. By doing that I can then put an in line fuel filter filtering the fuel before it getes to the pump. Well that's my thinking this August 1st. mornint. I plan to visit a local radiator shop later today or tomorrow to see if they can clean the tank. Stay tuned. Again any ideas or thoughts are always welcome.