Understanding Intercooling, Charge-Coolers, Heat Exchangers and Circulation Pumps
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2010
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From: Welwyn, Herts, UK
2006 S600
Could you configure it to to keep circulating the pump for a while after shut down. That would help reduce the heat soak - better for long term durability of everything and you start at a lower temperature when you get back in the vehicle agaon so you have better power on initial re-start.
I just replaced it with one out of a 320CDI - its the same 850W motor and controller. Lost a chunk of my hand in the process.
Nick
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 311
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Buick T-Type, 70 cuda, S65 and a very FAST Truck!
Howdy,
I noticed that the 2013-2014 Shelby GT500 is using a Pierberg pump. Anyone know if it is a CWA 50 or a 100?
I found some picture and price references for it. One vendor quoted $251 just for the pump.
See info below.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...connected.html
And at the bottom of this one. Also check out the massive stock heat exchanger.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...-h-e-pump.html
I had a thought that since there are harnesses out there to upgrade your older Shelby which uses a Bosch pump just like ours that there might be a chance the electrical plug is the same. Anyone have a "Ford " bosch pump they could compare our plug with? It would be sweet that you could possibly buy the new ford pump and the adapter harness would make it plug and play with the MB connector.
This is from the VMP website.talking about the harness ($59)
The 2013-2014 Shelby GT500 uses a higher flowing intercooler pump than previous years, it is an upgrade for 07-12 GT500s, 11-4 5.0L, and other vehicles that use a Bosch pump. The bosch pump flows approx 4.5GPM with an aftermarket HE, the 13 pump is good for 6-7GPM. On the road course we saw lower peak temps after running WOT on the straights with our VMP TVS Supercharged 2012 Boss 302.
Our kit includes:
3ft Extension/Adapter harness
OE Pump Connector
Adel/Cushion clamp for mounting 2013 pump 3225T8
I noticed that the 2013-2014 Shelby GT500 is using a Pierberg pump. Anyone know if it is a CWA 50 or a 100?
I found some picture and price references for it. One vendor quoted $251 just for the pump.
See info below.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...connected.html
And at the bottom of this one. Also check out the massive stock heat exchanger.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...-h-e-pump.html
I had a thought that since there are harnesses out there to upgrade your older Shelby which uses a Bosch pump just like ours that there might be a chance the electrical plug is the same. Anyone have a "Ford " bosch pump they could compare our plug with? It would be sweet that you could possibly buy the new ford pump and the adapter harness would make it plug and play with the MB connector.
This is from the VMP website.talking about the harness ($59)
The 2013-2014 Shelby GT500 uses a higher flowing intercooler pump than previous years, it is an upgrade for 07-12 GT500s, 11-4 5.0L, and other vehicles that use a Bosch pump. The bosch pump flows approx 4.5GPM with an aftermarket HE, the 13 pump is good for 6-7GPM. On the road course we saw lower peak temps after running WOT on the straights with our VMP TVS Supercharged 2012 Boss 302.
Our kit includes:
3ft Extension/Adapter harness
OE Pump Connector
Adel/Cushion clamp for mounting 2013 pump 3225T8
Newbie
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 13
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clk
hey guys. i got a problem. i want the cwa100 pump run in a normal car without the pwm impulse.
how can this be realized? ground to 1 and plus to 4 wont work.
ground to 1-2 and plus to pin 4 wont work either
any more suggestions?
how can this be realized? ground to 1 and plus to 4 wont work.
ground to 1-2 and plus to pin 4 wont work either
any more suggestions?
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,605
Likes: 343
From: Welwyn, Herts, UK
2006 S600
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Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2010
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From: Welwyn, Herts, UK
2006 S600
Cheers
Yup. It doesn't switch on immediately. It waits for PWM control signals, then defaults to full speed. Takes a few seconds.
Nick
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From: Wollongong, sydney Australia
R170 99SLK230 + SLK32
Super Member
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From: Germany
C215 CL55 AMG, W124 500E, W210 E430, W124 300E
Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 84
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From: Wollongong, sydney Australia
R170 99SLK230 + SLK32
Got the CWA50 running at 100% duty cycle last night.
ON the CWA50 - You can find Pin1 by checking resistance to the pump chassis - zero - ground = Pin1
You need your negative battery terminal on Pin 1 and your +12V on Pin 4 + another lead from the 12V to the PWM signal pin3 (Preferably through a 1.5kOhm resistor to limit current).
Pump takes 2 seconds to start.
I'd assume the CWA100 and 200 would be very similar.
Although the signal pinouts are different between the CWA50 and 200...
CWA200:1 – VBatt, 2 – Signal, 3 – Signal Ground, 4 – Ground
CWA50: 1 – Ground, 2 – Signal Ground, 3 – Signal, 4 – VBatt
compliments of tecomotive
ON the CWA50 - You can find Pin1 by checking resistance to the pump chassis - zero - ground = Pin1
You need your negative battery terminal on Pin 1 and your +12V on Pin 4 + another lead from the 12V to the PWM signal pin3 (Preferably through a 1.5kOhm resistor to limit current).
Pump takes 2 seconds to start.
I'd assume the CWA100 and 200 would be very similar.
Although the signal pinouts are different between the CWA50 and 200...
CWA200:1 – VBatt, 2 – Signal, 3 – Signal Ground, 4 – Ground
CWA50: 1 – Ground, 2 – Signal Ground, 3 – Signal, 4 – VBatt
compliments of tecomotive
Last edited by Billy22Bob; Apr 11, 2014 at 02:03 PM.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Welwyn, Herts, UK
2006 S600
I just found another Pierburg pump controller, by SFR Electronics in the Netherlands:
http://felixvandaal.nl/index.php/en/...cwapc-3-detail
http://felixvandaal.nl/downloads/MS_...al_EN_v1.0.pdf
http://youtu.be/_V0xSrK7z_g
This has "proper" digital display of target and actual temperatures, and looks easier to use than the Tecomotive unit, though the documentation isn't up to much. I think I would be inclined to use this, but its a bit late in the day now. Its about twice as expensive though - about 250 Euros.
Nick
http://felixvandaal.nl/index.php/en/...cwapc-3-detail
http://felixvandaal.nl/downloads/MS_...al_EN_v1.0.pdf
http://youtu.be/_V0xSrK7z_g
This has "proper" digital display of target and actual temperatures, and looks easier to use than the Tecomotive unit, though the documentation isn't up to much. I think I would be inclined to use this, but its a bit late in the day now. Its about twice as expensive though - about 250 Euros.
Nick
Their Pierburg pump controller, like the Tecomotive controller, is intended for engine cooling applications, so the minimum target coolant temperature is too high for intercooler applications (60 deg C in this case)
However, like Tecomotive, SFR will ALSO supply a pump controller with customised firmware to drop the minimum temp to whatever we want.
This is a great opportunity, as the SFR controller has a better user interface and display. It displays actual and target temperatures, plus actual pump speed, all at the same time.
When the coolant is below target, the pump doesn't switch off completely, but runs at 25%. This is perfect for the V12TT, to avoid heat-soaking the coolant pipes down the sides of the engine.
Not many people have picked up on the significance of the pump controller, focussing instead on bigger pumps. I think the pump controller is perhaps the biggest improvement to the IC system in day-to-day driving.
What a great toy.
Nick
Last edited by Welwynnick; May 5, 2014 at 05:22 AM.
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 883
Likes: 24
From: Finland
SL600 / SL450 (107) / E350 / BMW M5 E60 / BMW 745i (E23) / BMW X6M / Toyota Hilux 4 WD/ Honda CBX 10
I've been in touch with Felix van Daal at SFR Electronics. He speaks english, and is very helpful.
Their Pierburg pump controller, like the Tecomotive controller, is intended for engine cooling applications, so the minimum target coolant temperature is too high for intercooler applications (60 deg C in this case)
However, like Tecomotive, SFR will ALSO supply a pump controller with customised firmware to drop the minimum temp to whatever we want.
This is a great opportunity, as the SFR controller has a better user interface and display. It displays actual and target temperatures, plus actual pump speed, all at the same time.
When the coolant is below target, the pump doesn't switch off completely, but runs at 25%. This is perfect for the V12TT, to avoid heat-soaking the coolant pipes down the sides of the engine.
Not many people have picked up on the significance of the pump controller, focussing instead on bigger pumps. I think the pump controller is perhaps the biggest improvement to the IC system in day-to-day driving.
What a great toy.
Nick
Their Pierburg pump controller, like the Tecomotive controller, is intended for engine cooling applications, so the minimum target coolant temperature is too high for intercooler applications (60 deg C in this case)
However, like Tecomotive, SFR will ALSO supply a pump controller with customised firmware to drop the minimum temp to whatever we want.
This is a great opportunity, as the SFR controller has a better user interface and display. It displays actual and target temperatures, plus actual pump speed, all at the same time.
When the coolant is below target, the pump doesn't switch off completely, but runs at 25%. This is perfect for the V12TT, to avoid heat-soaking the coolant pipes down the sides of the engine.
Not many people have picked up on the significance of the pump controller, focussing instead on bigger pumps. I think the pump controller is perhaps the biggest improvement to the IC system in day-to-day driving.
What a great toy.
Nick
I appreciate your hard work!!!! Excelent and great work. I have read al the pages. I own an SL600. I have Speedriven upgrade IC coolers and want to upgrade the HE also.
Can you tell me which modell of pump this is…. I now it's a BMW / Pierburg pump but which model?
Thank you.
Juha
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 883
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From: Finland
SL600 / SL450 (107) / E350 / BMW M5 E60 / BMW 745i (E23) / BMW X6M / Toyota Hilux 4 WD/ Honda CBX 10
I have it at my car now and want more cooling. … I have not decide yet which HE I'm gone buy.
What do you recommend me to buy? I'm not sure if S600 and SL600 have the same space at the front and if both have the same OEM HE.
Juha
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,605
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From: Welwyn, Herts, UK
2006 S600
If you want more cooling, one of the simplest solutions is to add a second pump in series.
Otherwise there are lots of good pumps featured in this thread. Just as long as you don't use any engine cooling pumps like Johnson, Meziere or DaviesCraig. You need something that will generate around one bar of pressure. The best of all is the EMP WP29.
But increasing flow with more pumping power is doing it the hard way. I found you could get much more flow by reducing the flow resistance - fit a larger heat exchanger.
Which is best for the SL600: I have no idea. I've done a LOT of research on the W215/W220, but I know nothing of the SL, sorry. I guess an SL65 HE would be a good place to start.
Nick
Otherwise there are lots of good pumps featured in this thread. Just as long as you don't use any engine cooling pumps like Johnson, Meziere or DaviesCraig. You need something that will generate around one bar of pressure. The best of all is the EMP WP29.
But increasing flow with more pumping power is doing it the hard way. I found you could get much more flow by reducing the flow resistance - fit a larger heat exchanger.
Which is best for the SL600: I have no idea. I've done a LOT of research on the W215/W220, but I know nothing of the SL, sorry. I guess an SL65 HE would be a good place to start.
Nick
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clk
btw. the cwa 100 and 50 wont run full power with the pinout you guys postet it runs more in some kind of safe mode.
without controler it should be very hard to run it full power.
my friend is looking at the electronics of the pump at the moment. maybe he find a cheaper resolution to let it run full throttle. otherwise i will pin directly on the engines cooper wires
it runs more in some kind of safe mode. without controler it should be very hard to run it full power.
my friend is looking at the electronics of the pump at the moment. maybe he find a cheaper resolution to let it run full throttle. otherwise i will pin directly on the engines cooper wires
Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 84
Likes: 1
From: Wollongong, sydney Australia
R170 99SLK230 + SLK32
?????? I was running it at 22lpm and 0.6bar as described...not sure what is wrong with your setup - or do you feel it is capable of more output?
I'm away from home for work this last month and wont be home for another month - but looking forward to getting back to things.....
I'm away from home for work this last month and wont be home for another month - but looking forward to getting back to things.....
