Parts for adding integrated Nokia 6310i

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Oct 1, 2002 | 05:12 PM

#76

Richard

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Quote:

Originally posted by rgleason
Richard, I was misunderstanding you entirely. What it seemed like you were saying to me in the first two emails was, "Yes you need the clip." Then it seemed like you said in the last email I cited, that the clip is not necessary. The point I missed was that you were actually saying, "Yes you need a clip but it is not the 203 823 00 60, it is the 203 820 05 51." Sorry I misunderstood you. I hope this helps you understand why I did.

Thanks,

Dick

Thats OK, at least we know we are talking about the same thing now !

Oct 3, 2002 | 05:30 AM

#77

rgleason

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C240 2002

Resistive/DC filter A203 820 55 15

I've got almost everything hooked up in my car except the tie-in to the D2B loop and the connection of the Resistive/DC filter. Where in the world do you connect that Resistive/DC filter (A203 820 55 15 )? From the antenna switch to the coax connector for the phone there are two male screw-on connectors. I connected them with a coax connector for television cable. Maybe that will work, maybe not. Any other suggestions? The Resistive/DC filter has small connectors that in no way will fit between those to large screw-on male connectors.

Do you unscrew the cable that connects directly to the antenna switch and connect the filter there? I'm confused! Recommendations will be appreciated.

Cheers,

Dick Gleason

Last edited by rgleason; Oct 3, 2002 at 05:38 AM.

Oct 21, 2002 | 01:08 AM

#78

ml320

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Quote:

Originally posted by Richard
[applies to ML only]

Looks like theres another aerial connector hidden in the loom as well - Im going to assume that goes off to the front of the car ..
So, in order to use it for the phone you need the aerial spiltter/combiner, that will sit between the two cables that are connected together already (one to car aerial, one to teleaid), and allow you to connect the phone as well.
I dont know that part number, and the cable connectors are different to Europe, so you'll have to buy that in the US. The dealer will have the part number for that.

peralex and Richard,

that's the antenna switch part number BQ 682 0652 and required in cars with TeleAid. It also connects to that other aerial leading to the MCS. Yes, the 15 pin connects to the VCS which mounts onto the TeleAid.

The reason why you guys have not yet found the 25 pin connector for the PSE is that this harness part BQ 682 0672 is included with the M-Class phone install kit and not preinstalled. The PSE installs above the passenger footwell inside the panel with the foam rubber and some of the foam is cut away to make room for it. The template is part BQ 682 0703.

Finally, the compensator is usually mounted between the MCS and glove compartment, vertically.

Hope we get to try more Nokia 6310i's in the US!

Good luck.

Wolfgang

Last edited by ml320; Oct 21, 2002 at 01:12 AM.

Oct 21, 2002 | 12:40 PM

#79

rgleason

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C240 2002

Quote:

Originally posted by ml320

... Hope we get to try more Nokia 6310i's in the US!

Good luck.

Wolfgang [/B]

Thanks to an extensive amount of help from Richard, I have a Nokia 6310i working in my C240. The downside is that using this phone reminds me of the late 1980s early 1990s when analog phones were the rage. There are limited numbers of GSM towers around where I drive and I am constantly getting Phone Ready / No Service messages. This is frustrating. This morning, I was driving down Route 119 in Acton, Massachusetts and the message on the driver's LCD said "No Signal." Just as I was approaching a rotary in Concord, Massachusetts, the message changed from "No Signal" to "Phone Ready" with the signal strength indicator being at its strongest. So in a split second, the signal goes from being non existant to being at full signal strength.

I did not install a compensator but it's not because of that. The same thing happens when there is "No Signal" and I remove the phone from its cradle.

I am certain that things will improve regarding the availability of a GSM signal, but right now, this is terribly inconvenient!

Oct 21, 2002 | 01:07 PM

#80

R4ND0M_AX3

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C230

Congrats on the install. And thanks to all who helped with the research.

I am very interested in doing this in my U.S. C230 coupe (no tele-aid). So can we get a recap of what we need to order?

Is everything factory or was there some extra mods to wires or connectors?

If there isn't one by the time I install a phone, I will do a step by step web site with photos. But I need to be sure that everything I need to get is available.

Is the antenna already installed on US cars? I thought the antenna was the black stubbie on the rear window that I don't have. Anyway, I just need things to be a little more clear.

I have a 110 mile commute (Sacramento-San Jose) each way to/from work and my current GSM service only drops in 1 area. We've had GSM for a little over 5 years here. It was flakey at first but as time went by more towers went up and things improved. Now that there are 3 carriers in the area with GSM things should get way better.

Oct 21, 2002 | 02:24 PM

#81

rgleason

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C240 2002

Quote:

Originally posted by R4ND0M_AX3
Congrats on the install. And thanks to all who helped with the research.

I am very interested in doing this in my U.S. C230 coupe (no tele-aid). So can we get a recap of what we need to order?

Is everything factory or was there some extra mods to wires or connectors?

If there isn't one by the time I install a phone, I will do a step by step web site with photos. But I need to be sure that everything I need to get is available.

Is the antenna already installed on US cars? I thought the antenna was the black stubbie on the rear window that I don't have. Anyway, I just need things to be a little more clear.

I have a 110 mile commute (Sacramento-San Jose) each way to/from work and my current GSM service only drops in 1 area. We've had GSM for a little over 5 years here. It was flakey at first but as time went by more towers went up and things improved. Now that there are 3 carriers in the area with GSM things should get way better.

Look here: https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...threadid=19579 for my explanation of the install in my C240.

I don't know what the antenna on the back window does. For the radio maybe? The Teleaid/Cell phone antenna, as I understand it, is located in the rear bumper. As you know, US cars are prewired. I don't know for sure about the C230, but in the C240 this means that the fiber optics run from behind the radio to the installation point in the trunk. The center console has the phone cable and plug and a mini-UHF connector. In the trunk is a 25 pin connector to plug into the PSE controller, a four pin plug to the antenna switch, a D2B connector, and a mini-UHF male connector that runs to the front center console.

The link I reference above will be more specific, but you need the European phone cradle, a phone cradle bracket, the PSE, and an antenna switch (which you probably won't need if you don't have TeleAid). You might also need a D2B connector so you can plug the fibers at the radio end of things into the back of the radio.

If you don't have the radio hooked up to anything else, a CD-Player or Voice Control, you might already have the D2B connector at the PSE end and at the Radio/Head Unit end.

Oh, by the way, you will need the Nokia 6310i and an installation bracket (depending on where the PSE and all install in the C230). I can give you sources for the phone equipment and the phone if you want.

Let me ask you a couple of questions:

1. Do you know where the PSE installs in the C230? If so, where?
2. Is there a bumper antenna in the C230? If so, can you tie the coax feed from the center console to that antenna or is that already done?

Oct 21, 2002 | 03:11 PM

#82

R4ND0M_AX3

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C230

The arm rest has the coax and RJ-45 connector.

In the trunk on the passenger side is some fiber and what looks to be the 25 pin connector and I think the other end of the coax. I'll have to take a good look when I get off of work. I'll also look for a bumper antenna and any other wires back there.

I'll try to get some pics.

About the bumper antenna, is it something that is attached to the inside of the cover that might be seen or felt from under the car?

Does anybody have any pics of a bumper antenna?

Oct 21, 2002 | 03:53 PM

#83

ml320

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Quote:

Originally posted by rgleason
I did not install a compensator but it's not because of that. The same thing happens when there is "No Signal" and I remove the phone from its cradle.

Dick,

I think Richard mentioned a 1900 MHz compensator in one of his earlier messages. MB also installs it with V60 and Timeport phones. MB dealers sell them for about $250 (list is $295) and the part number is BQ 682 0657. Here's some info:

http://www.motorola.com/automotive/t...mpensator.html

Wolfgang

Last edited by ml320; Oct 21, 2002 at 03:55 PM.

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Oct 21, 2002 | 03:56 PM

#84

Richard

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Quote:

Originally posted by R4ND0M_AX3
Does anybody have any pics of a bumper antenna?

If U have the bumper antenna, it consists of 2 hidden pads, one on the left , one on the right, with a cable between, and a cable that comes from one into the trunk, roughly where you found that coax. Its all very hidden from sight.

BTW, that antenna on the rear window is also used as a phone antenna and a GPS antenna. Teleaid uses 2 antennas in case one is broken (one in window, one in bumper), so if you have that window aerial and no Teleaid, there is likely to be a coax somewhere that will plug into the other coax, and you wont need the coax splitter.

R

Oct 21, 2002 | 04:09 PM

#85

rgleason

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C240 2002

Quote:

Originally posted by Richard
If U have the bumper antenna, it consists of 2 hidden pads, one on the left , one on the right, with a cable between, and a cable that comes from one into the trunk, roughly where you found that coax. Its all very hidden from sight.

BTW, that antenna on the rear window is also used as a phone antenna and a GPS antenna. Teleaid uses 2 antennas in case one is broken (one in window, one in bumper), so if you have that window aerial and no Teleaid, there is likely to be a coax somewhere that will plug into the other coax, and you wont need the coax splitter.

R

He wrote, however, that he doesn't have the window antenna. He also wrote that he doesn't have Teleaid. What that all means, I guess, is that he is going to have to either install a window antenna or find the bumper antenna, right?

Oct 21, 2002 | 04:26 PM

#86

Richard

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Quote:

Originally posted by rgleason
He wrote, however, that he doesn't have the window antenna. He also wrote that he doesn't have Teleaid. What that all means, I guess, is that he is going to have to either install a window antenna or find the bumper antenna, right?

Dick, you are right ! I didnt think US cars came without Teleaid ..

The bumper aerial is quite easy to install if youre willing to remove the rear bumper (or it was on my SL), a few bolts and the bumper comes off, the aerial clips into the bumper brackets at the sides and hey presto ..

Cheers

Richard

Oct 21, 2002 | 04:26 PM

#87

rgleason

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C240 2002

Quote:

Originally posted by ml320
Dick,

I think Richard mentioned a 1900 MHz compensator in one of his earlier messages. MB also installs it with V60 and Timeport phones. MB dealers sell them for about $250 (list is $295) and the part number is BQ 682 0657. Here's some info:

http://www.motorola.com/automotive/t...mpensator.html

Wolfgang

Thanks. Richard also suggested that a compensator would unlikely be necessary. He suggested disconnecting the phone from its cradle when I lost the signal to see if I still didn't get the signal. I don't. As I understand the compensator, it compensates for the distance between the phone, the PSE, and perhaps the antenna. I'd assume that if I don't get a signal when the phone is disconnected from the car, I won't get one when it is connected, even if I use a compensator.

Your suggestion has merit, but I think I'm dealing with a limited number of antennas rather than the lack of a compensator. No signal when the phone stands on its own will equal no signal when integrated in a car, again, even with a compensator. Don't you think?

Dick

Oct 21, 2002 | 04:44 PM

#88

rgleason

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C240 2002

Quote:

Originally posted by R4ND0M_AX3
The arm rest has the coax and RJ-45 connector.

In the trunk on the passenger side is some fiber and what looks to be the 25 pin connector and I think the other end of the coax. I'll have to take a good look when I get off of work. I'll also look for a bumper antenna and any other wires back there.

I'll try to get some pics.

About the bumper antenna, is it something that is attached to the inside of the cover that might be seen or felt from under the car?

Does anybody have any pics of a bumper antenna?

I guess you might have a bumper antenna already installed. Richard says it is not that difficult (he did it in an SL) to install one if you don't have it), but you can probably find out by looking in the area in trunk where the fiber and all is. In my C240, the antenna connects to the Teleaid right behind where the D2B, 25-pin connectors for the phone are. If you see a coax cable coming ghrough the metal sidewall of your trunk that probably connects to the antenna. If there is a connector for the antenna (mine was wrapped in a piece of sticky felt, but then I have Teleaid) that's where you'll need to make the connection of the coax cable from the center console.

Take some pictures and include them here. Perhaps one of us can help if we have a visual image of what you've got.

Dick

Oct 21, 2002 | 05:16 PM

#89

ml320

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Quote:

Originally posted by rgleason
No signal when the phone stands on its own will equal no signal when integrated in a car, again, even with a compensator.

The phone itself puts out maybe 0.6 Watts. If the signal is weak the compensator will amplify both directions, received and transmitted signal. On 800-900 MHz it probably can put out up to 3 Watts and on 1900 MHz up to 2 Watts, 3 to 5 times more than the handheld phone by itself. The car antenna is another consideration.

The phone alone has up to 7 hours of talking time on one battery charge, that's one reason why it has limited output compared to a built in car phone with compensator.

Wolfgang

Oct 21, 2002 | 09:11 PM

#90

rgleason

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C240 2002

Quote:

Originally posted by ml320
The phone itself puts out maybe 0.6 Watts.

My problem with the phone has absolutely nothing to do with the signal that the phone puts out. It has to do with the signal that it receives. If there is no signal, a compensator can't correct that. I have a Verizon digital phone and can use that throughout Massachusetts, in my Mercedes, without loosing the signal. The phone has the same amount of power as my Nokia.

Quote:

If the signal is weak the compensator will amplify both directions, received and transmitted signal.

But again, there has to be a signal to amplify. There is none. Also, Mercedes states quite clearly in a publication that I read (can't give you the exact citation) that a compensator is not a booster. It is solely to compensate for the distance between the phone and the PSE. I can't provide the technical differences between a compensator and a booster, but there is a difference.

Quote:

On 800-900 MHz it probably can put out up to 3 Watts and on 1900 MHz up to 2 Watts, 3 to 5 times more than the handheld phone by itself. The car antenna is another consideration.

Again, my problem isn't the output of the phone, it is the strength of the signal. No offense intended, really, but what the phone can put out at any MHz is irrelevant here, as far as I can tell, it is the strength of the signal that is relevant. This is a $300 plus GSM phone. I believe that if it doesn't find a signal disconnected from the car, there isn't a signal there!

Quote:

The phone alone has up to 7 hours of talking time on one battery charge, that's one reason why it has limited output compared to a built in car phone with compensator.

And again, I don't think that the output of the phone is the issue here. It is the strength of the signal that is the issue! I'm open to being wrong, but I don't think a compensator is going to do anything for me. It can't generate a signal that just isn't there.

Dick Gleason

Last edited by rgleason; Oct 21, 2002 at 09:13 PM.

Oct 22, 2002 | 12:43 AM

#91

ml320

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Quote:

Originally posted by rgleason
It has to do with the signal that it receives.

Dick,

the compensator amplifies the received signal, if it is weak. As I said, it works in both directions.

You don't really need a compensator in densely populated areas with closely spaced cell sites. But if the cell sites are far apart and you have to rely on weaker signals, it does have an advantage.

Wolfgang

Oct 22, 2002 | 03:41 AM

#92

Londonboy

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Signal and Antenna

I know a little about radio with GSM, and I have always been lead to believe the output transmitting frequency must have the correct antenna length, and the correct Antenna length will greatly effect the output signal strength.

Incorrect Antenna lengths will cause a signal reflections back into the transmitter circuits, amongst other things, which you can imagine may cause all sorts of problems.

As important is the Antenna positioning. The best place for any Antenna on a car is dead centre of the roof, and anything else will always be a compromise or trade off for style to suit the cosmetic requirement and to look good...

I guess the compensator tricks the transmitter to think the correct Antenna length is available for either 1800 or 1900 (US) GSM, the default without the compensator would be 900 GSM (which you don't have in the US).

GSM phones regulate their own RF output depending on how close they are to a cell transmitter, thats why they can buz sometimes when working hard, and the batteries get warm and don't last as long when the signal strength is low...

Last edited by Londonboy; Oct 22, 2002 at 03:45 AM.

Oct 22, 2002 | 08:10 AM

#93

R4ND0M_AX3

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C230

Pics of pre-wires in trunk of C230K Coupe

Here's a pic I grabbed this morning of the wires in the trunk(boot). I didn't realize how much space the Bose system took up. I'll see if I can remove it and have a look at the stuff behind it later.

Oct 22, 2002 | 06:19 PM

#94

rgleason

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C240 2002

Re: Pics of pre-wires in trunk of C230K Coupe

Quote:

Originally posted by R4ND0M_AX3
Here's a pic I grabbed this morning of the wires in the trunk(boot). I didn't realize how much space the Bose system took up. I'll see if I can remove it and have a look at the stuff behind it later.

If the BOSE system is fiber optic (probably is) all you probably have to to is splice the phone fiber into the BOSE fiber. That would likely prevent your having to remove the radio.

I'm guessing, but since you are holding a coax cable in your hand, there is likely to be a coax cable nearby that you can connect it to. Can you seen anything coming out of the metal sidewall of the trunk that looks like a coax cable with a connector (male or female) on the end? Might be wrapped in felt.

Dick

Oct 22, 2002 | 07:42 PM

#95

R4ND0M_AX3

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C230

Re: Re: Pics of pre-wires in trunk of C230K Coupe

Quote:

Originally posted by rgleason
If the BOSE system is fiber optic (probably is) all you probably have to to is splice the phone fiber into the BOSE fiber. That would likely prevent your having to remove the radio.

The BOSE system is connected to the D2B. The stuff in my hand is from rear passenger corner of the car by the tail lamps and includes a lose pair of fiber. I assume this and the 25 pin connector go to the PSE.
How big is the PSE? I might remove the BOSE amp/sub to see if there is any more wires and any room and/or mounting locations for the PSE. I will also look for another coax back there.

-Dan

Oct 22, 2002 | 09:46 PM

#96

rgleason

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C240 2002

Re: Re: Re: Pics of pre-wires in trunk of C230K Coupe

Quote:

Originally posted by R4ND0M_AX3
The BOSE system is connected to the D2B.

Then you can connect (probably) the PSE D2B fibers to the amp fiber, e.g., plug phone-in fiber to the amp-out fiber; connect the fiber removed from the amp-out side of the D2B connector to the phone-out fiber with a fiber splice (about $5.90 at a Mercedes dealer).

Quote:

The stuff in my hand is from rear passenger corner of the car by the tail lamps and includes a lose pair of fiber.

Does this mean that you can see the fiber in the D2B connector and that you can see the other end of the fiber (probably connected together with a fiber splice)?

Quote:

I assume this and the 25 pin connector go to the PSE.

That's correct!

Quote:

How big is the PSE?

About the size of a video tape, more or less.

Quote:

I might remove the BOSE amp/sub to see if there is any more wires and any room and/or mounting locations for the PSE. I will also look for another coax back there.

-Dan

You could get some Velcro and stick it anywhere near where the cable, fiber, etc. are located.

Keep in mind that you might need to add an antenna if you can't find the connector. Why not leave a new message on this board and ask if anyone knows if there is an antenna in your car. You could also ask people where the phone should be mounted. I just don't know. Perhaps your dealer could advise(?)

Last edited by rgleason; Oct 22, 2002 at 09:53 PM.

Oct 23, 2002 | 06:00 PM

#97

Richard

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In Europe, we have GSM900mhz and GSM1800mhz. GSM900 was first, then they introduced 1800 presumably when 900 filled up. USA uses GSM at 1900mhz

MB only introduced the "compensator" in Europe when they released phones that supported GSM1800 - and in fact their "retrofit" documentation says that unless you are using GSM1800 its not worth putting the compensator in.

I dont know enough about radio waves to be sure, but GSM1800 requires twice as many base-stations as GSM900 (so, of course the 1st GSM1800 operator (Orange) used to advertise that they had more transmitters than any of the other operators)

So, I suspect the compensator is just a very small booster that makes up for signal loss on the coax cable between the amp and the aerial, which is quite long as it runs the whole way down the car.

As for Dick (rgleason)'s low signal issue, if the phone doesnt pick up a signal when outside the car then I feel its unlikely a compensator will help much. But, maybee there is only one way to find out.

I was (last week) in New Jersey, and found that the GSM1900 coverage was a bit patchy. Cant tell you exactly where I was, about 30 miles from the lincoln tunnel

R

(Dick, do you have the part # for the compensator ?? I have one here in the UK (which I bought in the US - very long story), but I dont know if its right for 1900mhz)

Oct 23, 2002 | 09:36 PM

#98

rgleason

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C240 2002

Quote:

Dick, do you have the part # for the compensator ?? I have one here in the UK (which I bought in the US - very long story), but I dont know if its right for 1900mhz)

Yes, Richard, I do have the part # for the compensator thanks to some information you provided a long while ago. It is:

Dual Band Compensator Q6820657

That's for the Motorola V60 but I'm fairly certain that it will work.

Dick

Last edited by rgleason; Oct 24, 2002 at 09:06 AM.

Oct 23, 2002 | 09:50 PM

#99

rgleason

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C240 2002

Quote:

I was (last week) in New Jersey, and found that the GSM1900 coverage was a bit patchy. Cant tell you exactly where I was, about 30 miles from the lincoln tunnel

A guy selling T-Mobile GSM service talked with me today about the differences between the GSM service provided by AT&T and that provided by T-Mobile. He's a sales guy so he certainly is going to "spin" whatever he says to position his product positively. He said that trying to use AT&T GSM phones in New York City is impossilbe. Their signals there are terrible. If that is true than perhaps that's why you were getting patchy reception.

What I don't understand though is that these GSM phones roam don't they? So even if AT&T doesn't have alot of towers in New York City or Northern New Jersey, shouldn't their phones roam to say T-Mobile's system?

Oh, by the way, the prices on the Nokia 6310i are coming down. A T-Mobile store in downtown Boston is selling that phone for $239 with T-Mobile activation, and a facility selling AT&T 6310i phones is charging $150 with activation of AT&T GSM service.

Dick

Oct 24, 2002 | 06:43 AM

#100

Richard

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Quote:

Originally posted by rgleason

What I don't understand though is that these GSM phones roam don't they? So even if AT&T doesn't have alot of towers in New York City or Northern New Jersey, shouldn't their phones roam to say T-Mobile's system?
Dick

Ok, the way GSM roaming seems to work is that: -

If you are in your home country, then you are tied to the operator you have signed up with - you can not roam onto another in-country network.
- This is a feature of the commerical agreements between the operators I beleive.

When you go to another country, you can roam onto *any* network there provided there is a roaming agreement between that network and your operator (for authentication/billing)

If you have a "pay as you go" gsm service, roaming doesnt work that well globally yet - receiving calls is no issue, making them is because the networks (for instance in the US) dont yet know how to disconnect the call when the credit runs out.

- When I was in NJ, the only operator that I could pick up was T-mobile. Even doing a manual search showed no sign of ATT, even when I was sitting in a restaurant on the waterside the other side of the river to mid-town New York.

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