Acapulco Bill

Note the poor C350 and C250 performance due to the lame 7G transmission. Hopefully MB will use the brand new 2.0L block designed for the A45/CLA45 as the basis for a better engine for the W205 than the last-century W271 engine design of the 1.8L.

Here is comparison link:

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=853804

JohnnyUte

Not surprised with the responses on the forum. I agree though, performance in these cars is lacking. MB should make a C350S or so, something to bridge the gap between the C350 and C63 since that's a huge bump. Looks wise, I've never been a BMW fan but I'll admit the C Coupe doesn't look that good in those pics. In person, it's a whole different story though, especially in white. I guess my biggest gripe would be the lack of power, or at least the ability to get it to the ground.

AV1

Yet another case of not comparing apples with apples, IMHO such a comparo is almost useless.

A proper comparo here would be with the forthcoming W/C205 C Class, otherwise they should be looking at the E90/92 vs current C Class or as someone there has pointed out compare against the new E Class for a more realistic comparison

JohnnyUte

I agree, a more fair comparison would be between the current 3 Coupe and C Coupe, or the 4 Series and C205. The E Class is a different level (despite sharing the same platform) and the price is much different. I'd like to see a price comparison between the BMW and MB. I know BMW can get very pricey the more you add on to it.

dav461

For the E200/250 facelift 2014 Mercedes started to use same 2l engine , not anymore 1.8l.

DameMD

As a long time Beemer fan, I have to say the front of the 4 is ugly. The c coupes looks better and even the c205 redesigns (renderings) look better. MB engines are the weakest though, we are beat out by everyone in this class. If MB can do a 3.5 turbo or a 3.0 turbo or even a 3.0 compressor, that would be great. Otherwise meh... Audi S4 and 335i are doing v8 numbers specs vs MB.

gwi42

Comparing a C class to any other manufacturer car is completely pointless there will always be something better and and something worst. BMW has nothing to do with Mercedes. You can only compare a C class to another car the same manufacturer makes.

Someone also said the C350 &C250 has poor performance? Maybe in the case of the C250 but I dont agree in the case of the C350 at 0-60 in 5.5 and the larger brakes in the C350 will stop this is one sweet ride and I dont care about anyone else.

Paper times & figures between cars mean ****. You can beat just about any car if you have the ***** and you know how to drive. I took a few SCCA classes and have done some low class racing. I will out drive and beat any non race driver in any car in my c350.

JohnnyUte

I think 330-350 hp would be the perfect notch in the line and competition with the 335/S5 cars.

TigerJK

I used to have e93 335i and for me, e92 is a way better looking car than

4 series. Hate the front (grill, bumper) and side (reminds me a 3 series

GT). Rear is ok but boring (no led, same exhaust). Even more, BMW put a

weird-looking boomerang on the fender and a M badge on the M pack

model

But I see a huge improvement on interior. No complains.

People complain C coupe looks outdated but I don't think new 4 series

looks so modern and fresh. Hopefully, M4 brings a lot of refinement

Acapulco Bill

The M276 3.5L can be tuned to give about 10% more HP:
http://www.kleemann.dk/Performance/Engines/350V6BE_M276

Also the M272 3.5L, some mods include new camshafts for up to 340 HP:
http://www.kleemann.dk/Performance/Engines/350V6_M272

The rest of the lag would have to be acquired by improving the 7G, as it takes a full 0.5 to 1.0 sec off the acceleration:
http://www.weistec.com/7229vb.html

DameMD

What are you talking about? LOL BMW has a lot to do with Mercedes as they are both German brands and most people are cross shopping Audi-BMW-MB. When the c250 came out, the competition at the time was Audi A4 2.0t and BMW E92 328. The c250 was able to hold its own as all of those cars are in the 6 sec range 0-60. The c350 competitors were the Audi S4 and BMW 335i as they all have the same 300hp base however, those cars are in 4 sec club 0-60. Mercedes is always last to the game to up the engine HP as all of the other manufacturers are going Turbo or Super Charged v6 along with bigger engines for the 4cyl. Now lets stay on topic as the OP was discussing the 4 series and MB engines.

Doing my internet searching MB has not published any info for the w205 regarding HP. If we can take any cues from the new w213 E class then we know that MB has not upgraded the engine for the v6 model. This means (what the OP was referring to) that when the 4 series BMW comes out, it will have better displacement engines than what MB is offering in the C Class. As it stands right now, the S4 and 335i along with the new 4 series, are better performers than the current c350 and probably the new w205 c350 unless Mercedes goes turbo V6 or resorts to using compressors (super chargers) again.

Please stay on topic as we are discussing engine performance of the 4 series vs C Class. No need to come in here and boast about the c350 especially when the current F30 BMW 328i is a better performer than a c350 or any MB offerings with the 3.5 v6.

Modifying a C350 or C250 still will not help as even with the current tuners for MB, the HP figures will not be the same as with he tuners for the S4 and 335i. Simple tunes for the S4 and 335i put them at 400+ hp. It will take a lot of work to get a c350 at 400HP and a lot more $$$$$.

As stated before, MB needs to drop the 3.5 to a 3.0 and supercharge or turbo the v6. It will get better fuel economy then the current 3.5 v6 and probably more torque which is definitely needed in the c350.

Acapulco Bill

The direct injected M276 engine in the 3.5L C300 4Matic and C350 (and isnt it ludicrous to DETUNE the 3.5L from 302 HP to 248 HP, about what the 2.0L BMW turbo produces) having a high 12.2:1 compression ratio, will probably not lend itself to supercharging (which needs about 10:1 or less), much less a rework for a turbo (generally 9.0:1 or less).

Effectively MB has invested in a technology in the M276 which is already out-of-date. The M270 used for the A/CLA and especially the A/CLA45 AMG, shows the path needed to meet the ever challenging standards of EU emissions and fuel efficiency requirements.

I won't even go into the deficiencies with the 7G-Tronic transmission which rob about 1.0 secs. in 0 to 60 MPH performance, whatever the HP or torque.

When the 4 Series is released, one wonders if the C Coupe will be relevant? Some have previewed a soft-top W204/205 convertible, photos look just horrid.

And when will the C Class have half the electronic tech of the BMW or the Audi, iDrive or a decent manual or automated manual dual-clutch transmission along with driver-defined steering, suspension, engine response and shifting characteristics?

DameMD

I think we are done with seeing manuals in MB at least for North America. Most people who buy a MB aren't looking for manual transmissions. The old c320 hatchback coupes came with manual as an option and they didn't sell well.

I think there is still hope in MB, look what they are doing to the CLA and rumors of a E Class turbo v6 to replace the E550. Here's for hoping the 2014-15 w205 will have the latest greatest technology and hopefully a better shifting transmission (maybe dual clutch like the s4?) and engine to level the playing field. If MB fails again with performance on the w205, I am definitely looking at a S4+S5, 335i+4 series or even a v8 for my next purchase when my c250 lease is over early next year.

JohnnyUte

I'm wondering if MB is just getting by right now until the W205 where they can do a full new design. The W204 has been around since 2008 plus the 2012 refresh. The car is not bad at all, but has some deficiencies when stacked up to the competition. I still think it has the best interior and pricing is quite good for what you get. Remember, the C Class is the entry level here in the states since we have no A or B Classes, but with the new CLA the plan is to bump the C Class up a bit.

gwi42

I guess my point was that it seems like a lot of guys today are just more interested in numbers and figures of different cars just on paper. And they want the rights to say my car has more HP and its faster than yours.

What does it matter if the BMW v6 has more hp than MB v6. Hyundai has a v6 at 333hp and a v8 at 430hp. Performance of a car is based on three things, -how well you can drive it, a set damn good brakes, and a damm good set of tires. I'll take HP last because you dont need it if you dont know how to use it.

I would bet if an F1 driver was driving a VW Golf he would beat me in my C350. So more power means really nothing and if someone wants wants better mpg then buy the golf because I dont see high performance and good mpg together in one car.

ralawren

I saw one article about the 2015 W205 that said both engines would be turbo charged. The C250 will sty 4 cylinder but the C350 will have. 330+ turbo 6 cylinder. I was going to wait but August 2014 was too lng for me.

Acapulco Bill

Point of info current BMW 6 cyl is inline (not a V6). Proposed are a 4 cyl and a 3 cyl for the 4 series. As for tunes, better performance and driving would be reworking the TCU and the valve bodies of the 7G, giving nearly equal acceleration with other German manufacturers, without touching the current 3.5L engine.

We will see what happens in the final spec of the W205, however my naturally aspirated inline-6 3L already produces 330+ HP. Obviously not a Merc.

AV1

The MB N/A 3.5ltr V6 will definitely be replaced across the board with the new MB twin turbo V6 petrol unit.

If you read literature from MB on the topic main reason is because the N/A 3.5ltr V6 petrol is the lowest selling or lowest volume/least popular engine in the ranges so it will give way to the new twin turbo V6 and all the better for it.

That new engine will have the capability to easily run OEM tunes of up to well over 400bhp and the torque levels will also obviously be well over what any similar sized N/A engine can produce, forced induction is definitely the way forward and also presents far more scope for further power and torque increases for all those people who want to pursue tuning mods and for OEM to keep lifting power and torque numbers with new release models using the same engine, MB have already stated this new V6 will be used in forthcoming AMG models, if they apply the same amount of tech to it as the new AMG 2.0ltr IL4 turbo it will easily produce more than 500bhp.

Auto transmissions will also keep increasing in ratios to provide both better response/acceleration and efficiency, this is what the trend seems to be at the moment.